The Danger Of Diy Hormone Use.

[Guest lucinda]

.......The system in the UK, I believe, means in order to be prescribed hormones one has to commit to RLE.....

No, not strictly true. I'm on hormones and not doing RLE. I have been prescribed hormones due to having at the minimum six counselling sessions at which it was diagnosed I was gender dysphoric and suitable for HRT.

Admittedly I had private sessions and am also paying for my HRT privately. But, I could have got my blood test and HRT paid for through the NHS but I couldn't get it arranged in time, but it was an option.

[Guest ignota]

Sarah - I think the general rule with the NHS is 3 months' RLE before hormones are prescribed. That's certainly what happens if you get referred to Charing Cross clinic in London, though there are others in other regions which may have different approaches. My heart sank too... But there are private clinics that will prescribe without going full time. Try www.transhealth.co.uk as a starting point if you're interested in going private. They provide counselling too, but if you already have one they may be ok to take their assessment.

If you have a good GP and discuss this honestly with them, and have had specialist counselling, you may - MAY - be able to persuade them to prescribe you. I've never heard of it being done, but it's definitely worth a try.

My heart goes out to you Sarah; I hope you find a way to get what you need. I'm sure you'll find a way

[Guest Jen61]

I agree that hormone self medication is a really bad idea. Herbs because there is not standardization and no FDA oversight (in the USA) in their manufacturing are very dangerous. Deaths linked to herbs consumption have been documented not only in GID people; the culprit was not the herb formulation itself but associated contaminants. In some herbs, found in Asian markets, high levels of mercury and cadmium have been noted.

it is also my belief that Herbs do not really make you grow any breasts anyway; anybody knows different?

On th issue of GID people dying because of legal or illegal use of hormones, it is worthy to remember that it is very difficult to conclude that it was the HRT that caused the death. This is what the medical consensus is at this time, and it partly due to the finding that that some of these people where chronic alcoholic or had hepatitis or other chronic illness (Diabetis, obesity, high cholesterol, etc.). So there is a little bit of hysteria when talking about hormones, yes they are bad when use without supervision, but they are not poisons either. A recent longitudinal study of MTF individuals who have been in HRT for a long time has demonstrated a cardio-vascular protective effect of HRT, when compared to males of the same age.

My point is not condone self medication, but to bring some common sense and veracity to HRT

Jen61

[Guest Sarahwr]

Hi.

Just an update on my previous posts and to say thank you to those who responded.

Today I had my 7th counselling session and after one more my counsellor will write to my GP with her findings and recommendations.

Todate I haven't DIY hormones although I have just placed an order for Finasteride basically because it is good for the prostate as well as being an antiandrogen.

I am still waiting the return of my GP so that the results of my psychiatric assessment and my counsellors reports can be discussed.

My future is still very uncertain and if my GP will prescribe hormones or at the very least monitor me then I may have to self administer. It is not something I will do lightly however it may become necessary.

I will let you know the results of my GP's appointment when it is over.

Thank you again for your comments,

Hugzzzzz to all,

Sarah

[Guest Michellewhois]

is estradiol valerate is consider to be herbal hormones? what about the estrofem?

As you can see by the WIKI definition Estrofem is not an herbal. It is derived synthetically from other compounds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estradiol . I know this self medicating with this compound (Climara patches) when I developed DVT (Deep Vein Thrombosis). As stated in an earlier posting about self medicating "WARNING WARNING WILL ROBINSON!" DON"T GO THERE without a doctor's help.

If you are talking about a product named EstroFem (notice the way it is spelled with a capitol F), that is supposed to be an all natural product BUT (and I emphasize BUT!!!!!!) research has now discovered that some of these so called "ALL NATURAL" products actually contain small amounts of the synthetic forms of the chemicals that are in the prescription form. One thing that most people must be aware of is that people that are selling this stuff could care less about anything other than separating us from our money. They will use just about any means, including mis-spelling, to sell their product.

[Guest Sascha]

Todate I haven't DIY hormones although I have just placed an order for Finasteride basically because it is good for the prostate as well as being an antiandrogen.

Sarah

Hi Sarah, did you know that Finasteride and Dutastride increases free testosterone? it's true. I've been on dutas for some time and it increased my free T blood serum by 8% according to my blood-work. Which is obvious in a sense, since DHT is produced from testosterone. The product warning also indicates around a 19% increase in free T. No or limited DHT means more free testosterone in the blood, which will either bind or be broken down. So, unless there is an anti-androgen in the mix, a DHT blocker will have no effect on feminization whatsoever. It will only limit the DHT effects on the scalp.

The product label says: "The median increase in serum testosterone was 19% at both 1 and 2 years, 26% at 3 years, 22% at 4 years"

[Guest LorieAnne]

All I can say is "thank the higher power" for this website. Out off all the information out there I have found the people here at Laura's have the truth and love to share it.

I am not going to lie ( to myself or others). I have heavily contemplated self medicating and herbals. Luckily, I did a lot of research and know that other than a monitored (by a professional) hormone treatment. You are basically playing Russian roulette but with a fully loaded gun. You aren't going to "win".

I get the driving need to change ones body in order to feel good about ones self and identity. I have it too. It nags me night and day, 365. But, I love myself and my life (and all those in it) so much that doing uneducated and risky behaviors seem, well, uneducated and risky. Not to mention, DEADLY.

So, with that said.............

I can't wait to have hrt, I want to get it NOW! But, I am not blazing a fresh trail here through these dark woods. So many other girls have gone through this. It's so important to step back and look at the reality of the situation. Look at others journeys and seriously learn from them.

I am falling in love with the Laura's family here. This is the best support I have been able to find, thank you thank you thank you!

I guess my point of the post is this. Don't self medicate! See your Dr! And love yourself enough to want to take care of your body and mind with educated decisions, educated decisions that will let you live...

[Guest praxis]

3 days at half dosage DIY herbal hormones. I'm throwing the rest away. Thanks ladies for the stern testimonials and dialogue. I am one of those people who knows best, and I will charge ahead with what I want - but when moderators and veteran members band together in general agreement I have to listen. Its unfortunate that there is so little information out there, and unfortunate that the manufacturers are probably paying good money to silence any critique.

In a couple weeks I'm going to head out to the desert alone and maybe re-examine my life. I've had good experience with soul searching alone in wild places, so maybe this will be good. My life as a male is pretty successful, but pursuing my feminine side brings a peculiar joy, and really complicates matters. I'm gonna go cry alone now...

[Guest Sascha]

3 days at half dosage DIY herbal hormones. I'm throwing the rest away. Thanks ladies for the stern testimonials and dialogue. I am one of those people who knows best, and I will charge ahead with what I want - but when moderators and veteran members band together in general agreement I have to listen. Its unfortunate that there is so little information out there, and unfortunate that the manufacturers are probably paying good money to silence any critique.

In a couple weeks I'm going to head out to the desert alone and maybe re-examine my life. I've had good experience with soul searching alone in wild places, so maybe this will be good. My life as a male is pretty successful, but pursuing my feminine side brings a peculiar joy, and really complicates matters. I'm gonna go cry alone now...

Hello praxis. Did you went on your journey yet? and how did it go?

I think you might want to pat yourself on the back if you take such wise decisions. I really do think that. Personally speaking, hormones are long term benefactors. They need to be taken seriously and also be respected. Hormones will not rush development, so the time someone spends on herbs is not only a waste of money (and we all need money) it can also produce a myriad of short and long term side effects, including the possibility of a growth retardation, especially on breast. Since herbs are weak they occupy all the receptors. Then when you get real hormones, they cannot attach anymore.

Patience is a virtue, if not the virtue of all virtues.

[Guest praxis]

Hiya Sascha,

Life, school, training have shown me the value of always questioning information for its source and integrity. That aside, I had an interesting time on my trip - though it was more a distraction than anything else. Got a nice farmer's tan on my arms.

Much of the draw of the hormones is knowing that it affects the entire body and the great feeling it brings; even if actual effects are only imaginary! I'm edging toward more public crossing and its alot of fun, definitely drawing me to continue seeking changes. By focusing on other aspects of myself I can change, I feel less like I'm missing something by not taking supplements.

[Alex59]

Sarah, in response to the UK and their absolute b***s of a system. Ive just turned 15, been going to a psychiatrist for 9 months now, been legally diagnosed with GID, seen an endo for my first visit........Even then they wont prescribe AA's to me. Dont you think its a far better idea to easily and cheaply to stop the damage before done than rather purposly wait for the dmage to be done, then spending all time and money trying to reverse what could of been easily prevented? Of course you do YOU HAVE COMMON SENSE WHICH THE ALBSOLUTE BOOTS WHO HAVE CREATED THIS SO CALLED "SYSTEM" SEEM TO LACK. Rant over.

Bottom line is for now I could deal with even just Spiro, even start E next year, just to know my body isint getting worse and giving myself the best chance possible.

ALexis

[VickySGV]

Since just after Christmas, an MTF friend had been growing steadily weaker and less and less able to care for her partner who has Cerebral Palsey and is confined to a powered wheel chair. Last night, the MTF friend was too weak to even help her chair bound partner to the toilet and collapsed with the partner in her arms on the floor. The people they had been staying with were out visiting a family member who had overdosed on pain meds the week before and was still in a locked ward for personal safety. Both our friend and partner were jammed into the area in front of the toilet when the people returned home two hours later. It took the Paramedics and rescue team about 15 minutes to get them out after unbolting the toilet from the base. When the MTF got to the hospital, her kidneys were in full arrest from potassium toxicity, her Cerebral Palsey partner had also received internal injuries from having been dropped against the toilet.

The MTF had been on DIY Spironolactone that she had bought from a no-prescription online pharmacy, she was not under doctor's care, and had not suspected the kidney failure issue since she had not had blood work done on the recommended basis. She had had no medical insurance for herself, and her partner was on state disability medical insurance. Had the people they had been staying with returned even two hours later than they did, they might have had two corpses on their hands.

[Alex59]

OMG serious?

[Guest Jo-88]

...is estradiol valerate is consider to be herbal hormones? what about the estrofem?

estrofem is estradiol valerate, and no it isn't an "herbal" hormone... estradiol is naturally produced in the human body. Estrofem is a synthetic version that bonds the estradiol to a carrier molecule that aids in its release and absorption (the carrier is signified by the suffix, generally either valerate, acetate, or cypionate). Basically estrofem (estradiol valerate) and estrace (estradiol acetate) act exactly the same as its naturally occurring counterpart.

Moral of the story, these are powerful and potentially dangerous steroids that should be used in a controlled and monitored scenario.... Also the "herbal" hormones have their risks as well so better to just avoid them (not to mention they are essentially snake oil and wont help you feminize at all).

[Guest Crim]

I'm glad that I came across this post. This is very good information and thanks Sascha for sharing. It has actually crossed my mind about self medicating but after reading this I won't even give it another thought. I'm just so frustrated and really REALLY want to start HRT. Oh well, I'd rather wait then damage my body beyond repair or possibly well you know.

[Guest Minerva]

Hi Sascha, such a coincidence to meet you here.

While I do recognize the risks of self medication, I do have a few remarks.

Firstly, you mention hundreds to thousands of deaths under transgender by self medicating. I don't think it is wise to make such claims because you have no data, it is only a guess. Especially here people claim self medication is likely to be fatal yet in my circles I haven't yet heard a single confirmed hospital admission due self medication of cross sex hormones.

Secondly, Everyone can get bloodtests done at a gp, you only have to go to yours, explain the situation and request them. With these bloodtest you take away a lot of the risks of self medication making it as safe as if you would be under supervision of the genderclinic.

To take myself as example, I self medicated for a while in anticipation of the 'green light' from the genderclinic. Thanks to the bloodtests I knew which dosages worked on me, especially for anti-androgens. When I finally got my referral to the endo he doubled my anti androgen dosage while my testosterone level was already unmeasurable. When I asked why he responder: "This is the way we do things here, we always start with this dosage". I trusted him and used the doubled dosage for a month in which I was very tired and lustless untill I cut back again on my own accord.

Thirdly, waiting for a referral to an endo also has risks. In my country it currently takes -at least- 2 years from your first appointment with the genderclinic till your first prescription. Especially when you are young, you can see testosterone bring havoc to your body during those years, causing your hairline to recede, causing body hair, facial hair. I know unfortunate girls who went nearly bald during that period..

This is damage you can never completely recover.

Concluding I have to agree that self medicating is very dangerous if you have no means of checking your blood. But if you have and if you listen to advise doctors give you, it is as safe as an official prescription.

[Guest ~Brenda~]

There is something much deeper regarding self HRT.... therapy... Do you think that you can actually handle the physiological efffects of HRT without the psychological guidance of a therapist?

The serious dynamics of HRT surpass simple physiology.

A GP is not qualified to assess all of the dynamics involved with HRT.

Brenda

[Guest Minerva]

There is something much deeper regarding self HRT.... therapy... Do you think that you can actually handle the physiological efffects of HRT without the psychological guidance of a therapist?

In my country that is actually a non issue as the genderclinic is for diagnosis and checkups only. If they would take psycho-social care under their wings the waiting lists would grow even longer.

Instead there is a separate organization offering free of charge psycho-social help for transgenders in all stages of their transition.

[Guest Sascha]

While I do recognize the risks of self medication, I do have a few remarks.

Firstly, you mention hundreds to thousands of deaths under transgender by self medicating. I don't think it is wise to make such claims because you have no data, it is only a guess.

If you have read this thread carefully, you'll see 4 reported deaths alone in only two pages. Laura, the administrator suffered from a stroke and multiple heart attacks by using herbals. So it's even more prevalent than I could imagine. I personally know about 8 cases from reading different blogs over the last two years, and ~20 cases from reading the endo journals and PubMed papers. Since most of it is unreported, I guess it's safe to say that hundreds is a fair number. Maybe even thousands. And I am talking about worldwide numbers here. I almost was one of them.

[Guest sophia.gentry58]

Sascha, thank you for the needed information. I have read on different websites how one can develop their breast naturally. I haven't tried any of the herbals, but I did settle on purchasing some progesterone cream. I apply a little of the cream on the inside of my thighs each day after I shower. Would this be considered self-medicating and is it dangerous for me to use?

Sophia

[Guest Edu]

Sophia: I'm not a doctor and definitely not an expert on the topic; but there are a few things I know:

First, there are many chemicals that can be absorbed through skin. In fact, many prescription meds are in form of creams and similar. Second: whatever it is that you are using, if it actually "works", it has to include some ingredient that does the "work".

I have no idea of what's in that cream you're using (actually, I'm afraid you don't even know yourself), so I can't say whether it's dangerous. What I can tell you is that either it is dangerous, or it is useless. Having seen the kind of scams that float around the web, chances are high that it's both dangerous and useless.

On a side note, for those who are so desperate to consider those options, here goes a healthier alternative: work out your chest muscles. It won't make the miracle that all those "herbal" crap promises, but it won't put your life at risk. You can look for info through the web or even ask around here. As long as you don't overstrain your body, some exercise is always healthy; and the right workout can help you add some volume to your chest (maybe half to one cup size, although it can depend a lot on the kind of exercise and your body shape).

[Guest Galia]

Thank you all so much for sharing this information. I'm 32 and have wanted to transition to female for as long as I can remember. Like many of you, I've researched the herbal route and was planning on purchasing nature day and purafem pueraria mirifica, but after reading how dangerous they can be, I will no longer be considering them as an option. Its just so expensive to go the proper route, and that's another reason why the herbs are more appealing. I would love to transition fully with surgery and all, but I feel that I will never be able to afford all the costs. Its an expensive journey and I wouldn't even know where to begin. I envy all of you so much for having the courage and dedication to go through the entire process. This is a great site and so informative. Thank you Laura for starting it!

[Cyndee]

I'm 32 and have wanted to transition to female for as long as I can remember. Its just so expensive to go the proper route,

Hello Galia, many insurance plans will cover treatment these days. Which includes the meds, the testing, the dr visits. My out of pocket expenses for HRT is quite low, amazingly low.

[Guest Galia]

Hi Cynthia Rae, thank you for responding. I'm self employed and unfortunately don't have any form of insurance at the moment. Even with help with doctor visits and hormones, from what I see SRS is around 20,000 and FFS and implants are thousands a piece as well. Do you know if some insurance plans help with that? Thanks in advance.

[Cyndee]

Well the "trend" is toward more insurance plans covering SRS, not FFS (still cosmetic). The key phase is "Medically neccessary", remember that phrase. Transitioning is not cheap, however if you are careful and wise it can be done on a shoe string budget, there are lot's of stories from folks who have saved for years for their treatments. It's really not about the money in the end, it's about your well being, how can you put a price on that ?

Best to you

Cynthia -