Androgyne Identity A Gateway To A More "traditional" Gender Identity?

[Guest shadowwalker]

First of all this is a bit of a personal post but I'd like to hear some feedback on this, and if others had something similar happening to them.

I first identified and came out as androgyne when I finally realized I had gender issues. I think it's because of my inherent philosophical complexed nature and my mental self-defense that kicked in to prevent me to fully admit I might be full-blown trans...

I actually still have doubts over the whole transitioning and going on HRT thing, but this is what I've gathered so far:

If I was born as a girl (and I really wish I was), I'd probably have been quite androgynous, leaning to the feminine side... like a tomboy. I might even had gender issues while growing up, until puberty would've fixed it (this is what happened to me, except in the opposite direction... puberty made me uncomfortable as a boy)

Ever since coming out to myself that I have a non-male gender identity things eventually evolved until I figured out I really have a female soul in me and that I feel comfortable with heading down this road. As a kid I've always felt different from all the rest, especially the boys, and while I did my best to do boyish things I never truly did it with conviction and had some very faint feminine quirks inside me, so in that respect I never really was cisgender at one point despite the apparent lack of obvious signals.

I'm still battling all the doubts and confusion though, since I'm not actively transitioning yet in any way. My internal gender feeling was not triggered by cross dressing, and it still doesn't. This applies to me personally: I feel that cross dressing is an uncomfortable necessity to fully enter a female gender role and to be accepted as someone with GID (or to be simply accepted as female). I've figuratively been killing myself over the fact that I don't have typical transsexual symptoms regarding all that superficial stuff that needs to be present... But here I am. Confused, quite masculine-wired, but still with a tremendous affinity for femininity, and with the conviction that I'm born in the wrong gender to express myself in.

So in a bizarre way, I am still a bit of an androgyne. If/when I transition to be in a female form, I won't be the hyper-feminine type and would probably comfortably be an andro-girl (results may vary). Too bad this confuses the hell out of people. I mean I'm willing to undergo a life-altering change and yet I'm not going fully feminine? Blasphemy!

[Guest Ebany]

I mean I'm willing to undergo a life-altering change and yet I'm not going fully feminine? Blasphemy!

not to me. I fully understand! I'm not very masculine myself and have no desire to be a big burly macho idiot. that doesn't change the fact that I was born with the wrong body. There are all kinds of women and which type you are is completely up to your personality.

~Dani

[Guest Kendall]

I read an article a few years ago, I forget who wrote it. The article mentioned how TSs gather "libraries" of material that instruct them how to transtition. And the article said that although some TSs are very girly girl types, many that the writer had met and talked with actually lied many times, in fear of being turned down for service of hrt and srs. They had been instructed, according to the author, by this library of literature, that said pretty much that TSs must be girly girls and manly men in order to qualify for treatment. The author had in fact fully transitioned earlier in life, and only later reclaimed the masculine that she tried to suppress and hide, in order to transition. I forget the author and article.

Kendall

[Guest Micha]

I think it's because of my inherent philosophical complexed nature and my mental self-defense that kicked in to prevent me to fully admit I might be full-blown trans...

...

I'm still battling all the doubts and confusion though, since I'm not actively transitioning yet in any way. My internal gender feeling was not triggered by cross dressing, and it still doesn't. This applies to me personally: I feel that cross dressing is an uncomfortable necessity to fully enter a female gender role and to be accepted as someone with GID (or to be simply accepted as female). I've figuratively been killing myself over the fact that I don't have typical transsexual symptoms regarding all that superficial stuff that needs to be present...

I'm sensing a lot of influence from stereotypes here, things like "men should be. . . women should be. . . transsexuals should be. . ." Most distressing to see how these things further complicate an already confusing issue. All I can offer on this notion is say to hell with what anyone is supposed to be. The idea that you have to be a girly girl to be accepted as a transwoman is ridiculous, and as Kat demonstrated, counter productive.

Focus more on how you feel than on what it means to be male, female or trans.

I actually still have doubts over the whole transitioning and going on HRT thing, but this is what I've gathered so far:

If I was born as a girl (and I really wish I was), I'd probably have been quite androgynous, leaning to the feminine* side... like a tomboy. I might even had gender issues while growing up, until puberty would've fixed it (this is what happened to me, except in the opposite direction... puberty made me uncomfortable as a boy)

*Do you mean masculine? As in a girl who isn't girly girl feminine? As a tomboy would be?

This part I relate to a lot, and I think had I been born female, this would likely be true for me too. I feel I would have been happier, more myself. . . but still not 100%. I would have been raised as a girl should be, instead of being raised as a boy (as I was), and I think the extreme opposite end of the spectrum would still unsettle me, and I'd have been more masculine than girls "should" be, perhaps more masculine than I am being born male. However I know I don't want HRT or SRS, and my reasons would make this post's length even more unbearable. Short version - my genetalia and my body do not define my identity, and the stereotypes associated with either sex are wholly intolerable to me. Perhaps I'd be happier with a body completely lacking genetalia, I dunno. . .

You're uncertain about HRT and SRS, but still considering it? You have your reasons for that, maybe even subconcsious to the point you don't recognize. This I believe is where most everyone would suggest a GT.

Kind of rambling. . . sorry.

The whole gateway idea I think is more like a step by step discovery. You recognized gender identity issues, but weren't clear on how deep or how far. Coming out as androgynous was the first step, but now you think maybe you're more feminine than what describes an androgyne, so now the next step is discovering where on the spectrum you are and what you need to do to be comfortable in your body. Is that it?

Androgyny did not lead me to a more traditional gender identity, but rather set me dead against tradition to the point where an argument supporting gender binaries can all but break me emotionally. I detest the idea of a binary system with my whole being, and I believe firmly that individuals should be whatever, whoever they want and do what they like with no regard whatsoever about gender or other standards. That's me, completely subjective. Androgyny, gender identity, everything actually; it's all subjective, affecting individuals in different ways.

[Guest shadowwalker]

I've had a nervous and mental breakdown a few months ago because of reading all the classic stories, because I didn't feel like I was fitting anywhere at all. I'm not a "true transsexual" in multiple regards, including (dis)comfort over my body/genitals... As I said I "started out" as androgyne until my feelings naturally brought me in the female range, when I let go of having to force myself to be male... it was then that I got depressed over not fitting in as a (trans)woman. I still have this feeling because it's so hard to define myself right now.

I think that forcing myself to be too much of a girl creates an internal vaccuum... Sure I'm really uncomfortable being a guy and have felt this way since puberty but I'm depressing myself if I start analyzing too much, trying my hardest to make myself fit in the box of "true transsexuality".

But still, no one can take away my feeling inside that I'm not male, these days when I'm being referred to in my original name and male pronouns, I get extremely irritated and annoyed... When my best friend does the opposite and calls me Siana and by female pronouns... I get a warm and exciting feeling inside. He hasn't done it a lot yet but when he does... then all is suddenly well and I'm on the right track after all.

But my androgynous nature is still there I guess. It may be because I'm terrified of becoming too girly, traumatic experiences in school while growing up (being bullied...) made me become mentally older than I should be... and made me adopt an introverted, bitter mindset while trying to be a guy to "prove" that I'm a person. Repressed my personality and all that... I still long for the moment I can finally let it all go when I'm on HRT and just... become myself again.

[Guest shadowwalker]

*Do you mean masculine? As in a girl who isn't girly girl feminine? As a tomboy would be?

I should've elaborated a bit, I mean that I would dress androgynously, but still want to look pretty in a feminine way. The only example I can think of right now is a metal chick who dresses in leather with bullet-belts, but still groom herself body-wise to be as feminine as possible Long hair, subtle make-up/eyelashes, etc...

Kind of a combination of butch clothing and a femme body (using lesbian terms here, lol).

my genetalia and my body do not define my identity, and the stereotypes associated with either sex are wholly intolerable to me. Perhaps I'd be happier with a body completely lacking genetalia, I dunno.

You know, I've actually wished the exact same thing for a long while, but this is because my sexuality in a man's point of view feels alien to me. I had always viewed it with female goggles and it makes much more sense to me and is part of the reason why I feel more like a woman instead of a "both/neither" person.

You're uncertain about HRT and SRS, but still considering it? You have your reasons for that, maybe even subconcsious to the point you don't recognize. This I believe is where most everyone would suggest a GT.

Kind of rambling. . . sorry.

No problem at all

Well look, even when I was going about all "androgyne" and stuff I had predicted and felt I wanted HRT and eventually become fully female but keeping my genitalia. I was held back because I was worried about sterility. Eventually this changed as I started hating my organ downstairs more and more, and remembering my repressed past that I was always ashamed of it, and kept trying to hide it (so I guess I do have a few minor "classic symptoms" lol).

Once I find a comfortable environment to fully explore everything (kinda hard as I live with my parents here), and feel 100% comfortable in a female gender, I'm sure I'll want SRS in the distant future. I'm still keeping the possibility open that I'll reach a point I don't want to go further, perhaps including a detransition and all. Who knows? Everything's possible for a partly undefined trans person like me.

I'm going to a therapist already and told him head-on that I want to transition but I haven't kept silent for one bit about my doubts and depressions. My current intention and goal is just getting on HRT for psychological reasons... I always hated testosterone and I really want to flush that out of me. I never felt right as a male so I really do feel there's a certain "rightness" in wanting to go on hormones.

The whole gateway idea I think is more like a step by step discovery. You recognized gender identity issues, but weren't clear on how deep or how far. Coming out as androgynous was the first step, but now you think maybe you're more feminine than what describes an androgyne, so now the next step is discovering where on the spectrum you are and what you need to do to be comfortable in your body. Is that it?

Indeed, that's pretty much exactly how it went with me. I just feel terribly wrong in a male body and having tried to be male... I want to change that into being female so I can fully express this spectrum

[Guest Foosnark]

I'm kind of feeling the other way... at least today! Maybe I'm too fluid to choose. But anyway, I thought I was going to someday, if I got up the courage, go MtF. Now I'm starting to think I prefer androgyny. If I can't shapeshift every day, being third or zeroth gender seems a good compromise.

[Guest terra]

"liquid" isa good way todescribe how many of us feel, andrgynes i mean. Its amazing the veriety that there is between everyone and also just how bizarrely similar we can be. I feel we are like magma, liquid and constantly changing/ evolving, maybe someday we shall set as stone, but hey, whats wrong with beingmagma? Lol. I personally feel a duality within myself, as if i have a soul of both a male and female, its just a case if getting the two to coexist, kiss and make up if you will as far as sexual preferance, if i was to suddenlybe female, i'm almost certain i'd still predominantly be attracted to females. Although i cannot remeber hiw i arrived at this conclusion (dont do drugs as a youngster btw) i can recall this feeling right weather ir not this was a help to anyone, i dont know, i just felt i should pipe up @_o lol

[Guest Lacey Lynne]

Blastphemy here too! I'd be lying if I said I was a girly-girl! Too much a mixture of M & F to deny the M altogether. How about taking the best of both?

It is hard not to try to conform to someone else's idea of what we should be. It seems harder to be true to ourselves: At least for myself, I've had a lifetime of lying about who I am. Finding the truth isn't so easy after all of that deception.

And it' might appear necessary to prove oneself a true transsexual by conforming to the norms of a "True Transsexual". Isn't that like climbing out of one box only to climb in another?

No, it's a bit better to give yourself the freedom to find what works for you.

I have found that HRT has been an influence - more feminine than I expected - so who knows? Just following the path to see where it goes!

Best of luck on yours!

Love, Kat

Amen, amen and amen!

Thanks, Kat!

My thoughts exactly!

Just be YOU ... which is enough ... more than enough ..., and it's okay!

Peace Out Lacey Lynne

[Guest Kukaku]

Hey Shadowwalker,

I'm new to this site, as well as just finding out I might be androgynous. Admittedly not even aware of androgyny till now. But after reading your posts I found myself relating a lot to what you're going through. I've always been confused about myself, but I think I have a better understanding of myself now. Just wanted to say thanks for sharing with us.

[Guest Juniper Blue]

Such a RELIEF to read this post!! I am a very masculine person who resonates well with the transmale experience in that I experienced a definite "boyhood" (with my twin bother) especially prior to the onset of puberty at age 10. I also struggled with severe body dyshpoia as a child and youth ... at five, I tried to rub my nipples off in an attempt to prevent me from ever developing breasts (OUCH ... no success, by the way .. don't try it) when I started menstruating at 10, I was absolutely devastated and didn't smile again for a year. In grade school, BOYS would run to ME to protect THEM from bullies on the playground ( I was a hulking 5'2 by the 5th grade!) In junior high the same boys were staring at my breasts and were sexually harassing me. Grrrrrrr .... My brother told me that I could "stop walking like a tough guy" since we were in a better neighborhood ... I had no clue of how to walk any other way ... I mean I was a "tough guy!!" This was all very painful to deal with ... very hard. But I was socialized as girl, at home and in the world. I developed a balanced blend of masculine and feminine characteristics, at least internally. The outside never adjusted though .... I finally gave up and decided to dress and live as I wished in my early twenties. It was freeing to finally wear men's clothes, ultra short hair,let my legs get furry etc. I found a wonderful partner and she loves me as I am ... that helps soooo much becuse I can just eb ME without a gender descriptor. So, if you need a burly shoulder to cry on over a cup of herbal tea ... I am your Androgyne!! I might even bake you coconut macaroons. )

[Guest Alder]

-puppy eyes- do those coconut macaroons have to be paid for in tears?

[Guest Juniper Blue]

Okay ... I am baking coconut macaroons for EVERYONE, especially Alder ...

Hey Dani ... I LOVED your response! HA!

An Excerpt from Dani's Quote: I fully understand! I'm not very masculine myself and have no desire to be a big burly macho idiot.

I do not believe that "Machismo" has anything to do with becoming a man ... in fact, it seems counterproductive. Hooray for all men who resist the pressure to be male chauvinists. That takes courage and real strength.

[Guest runner2guy]

To Shadowwalker: I've just read your posts in this discussion, and I'd say that if you have any doubts at all about transitioning - which you have - then dont do it. Just think that any thing that is irreversible is there for life. Yes, I know you'll have heard this before, but it bears repeating every day.

Another suggestion, which has worked for me very well, if you can do it. Get a job and a way of life where you fit in being as you are. For me, being and working as an "ecofreak" in a world where we are increasing accepted makes me being androgyne more acceptable too, both to others annd to myself.