Are We Really Ts And Not Cd

[Guest JoAnnDallas]

I have always wondered if the average CDer is not really a Part-Time TS. The common diffintion of a CD is a Male that wears female clothing or a Female that wears Male clothing. In this day and age, woman can openly Crossdress and no one cares. That is a woman can Crossdress, wear from inside out, male clothing, but still looks female, reconized as female, but everyone knows her clothing is male clothing. Society accepts this. On the other hand, if a Male Crossdresses, wears from inside out, female clothing, but still looks male, reconized as male, but everyone knows his clothing is female clothing, then Society regards this male a FREAK and/or PERVERTED. The only way this male can wear from inside out, female clothing, is to look female (wig and makeup) and be reconized as female. Then society accepts him as a female. Thus in reality, for a man to crossdress, he has to assume the role of a TS and not a CD. So I believe most Male-to-Female Crossdressers are Part-Time Transsexuals. I only know of a few men that do correctly Crossdress. One is "Butterfly Bill". He wears dresses and skirt/blouses, goes out, but has a beard, mustash, and no makeup or wig. Also there are forums dedicated to "Men in Skirts", but for the majority of male-to-female CDer, we are in reality Part-Time TS's.

[Guest Evan_J]

Hmmm. I dunno about that. Of course it could be considered that way (or any way really) by anyone, for me being a CD or TS is determined by whats goin on with the person ie what it is they are fulfilling to themselves.

Therefore, while a male dressing in womens attire might be pressured socially to "run the gamut" of female presentation in order to not be harassed its just that then, he's only presenting the entire female appearance because of external pressure. Has nothing to do with his need to be fulfilled in being female. And so I would not call him TS because he has no need/desire to transform what he is. -even by just using clothing.

I do however think it gives him an insight as to what a TS person might encounter from the mainstream critics.

Just mah view

[Guest Keira]

I hope this doesn't sound bad, but men who crossdress will usually have very different motivations to, say, women who wear trousers and shirts. The crossdressers I know in real life seem to do it for several reasons: to express their femininity for a short period of time, to rebel against social norms, or just for a thrill.

I'm not sure if I'd call crossdressers part-time transsexuals... that sounds like a bit of an oxymoron to me. I've always understood the term "transsexual" to mean someone who's gender identity doesn't match their biological sex, and they desire to transition physically and live full-time as their preferred gender.

Just my 10 cents. I guess it all comes down to how we identify ourselves.

[Guest Snow Angel]

Female bodied people who wear male clothes usually get labeled 'lesbian' by society.

[Guest Fran]

Keira, I agree. I like to wear a bra ,breast forms,and high heels. Anything beyond this is to look female and blend in. If I could go out wearing boobs and heels I would be happy.

[Guest Zenda]

I have always wondered if the average CDer is not really a Part-Time TS. The common diffintion of a CD is a Male that wears female clothing or a Female that wears Male clothing. In this day and age, woman can openly Crossdress and no one cares. That is a woman can Crossdress, wear from inside out, male clothing, but still looks female, reconized as female, but everyone knows her clothing is male clothing. Society accepts this. On the other hand, if a Male Crossdresses, wears from inside out, female clothing, but still looks male, reconized as male, but everyone knows his clothing is female clothing, then Society regards this male a FREAK and/or PERVERTED. The only way this male can wear from inside out, female clothing, is to look female (wig and makeup) and be reconized as female. Then society accepts him as a female. Thus in reality, for a man to crossdress, he has to assume the role of a TS and not a CD. So I believe most Male-to-Female Crossdressers are Part-Time Transsexuals. I only know of a few men that do correctly Crossdress. One is "Butterfly Bill". He wears dresses and skirt/blouses, goes out, but has a beard, mustash, and no makeup or wig. Also there are forums dedicated to "Men in Skirts", but for the majority of male-to-female CDer, we are in reality Part-Time TS's.

Kia Ora JoannD,

Good food for thought topic…

Umm…The theory goes[well my theory that is] the ‘transsexual-female’[M2F] has a ‘female’ psychogender identity-a long the lines of a genetic female…’Men’ on the other hand who have the desire to wear the clothing of and behave in the way of the opposite sex are ‘gyne-co-mimic’-having a strong desire to mimic the female-The term gyno-co-mimic applies to both the heterosexual crossdressing male and the ‘gay’ drag queen-Because they both still identify as ‘males’ in the psychogender sense…

However in saying all that… Most if not all people who have suffered from ‘Benjamin’s Syndrome’ have at some stage in their lives ‘crossdressed’…It’s only when one goes 24/7 that the ‘crossdressing’[in the eyes of an ‘understanding’ society-and themselves ] stops…

Some more food for thought for those 'transsexual' people who have affirmed their gender 24/7…Prior to doing this…. were you a crossdresser? Think about this carefully…I know I was…

Metta Jendar

[Guest Keira]

Some more food for thought for those 'transsexual' people who have affirmed their gender 24/7…Prior to doing this…. were you a crossdresser? Think about this carefully…I know I was…

I suppose I might have been a "crossdresser" when I used to wear boy's clothes. Now I wear the clothing appropriate to my gender.

[Guest nightfly]

I suppose you could make a case for it, but you'd really have to examine the reasons for the crossdressing, then the person themselves, and decide if they 'fit'. I've read a ton of material over the years, and have found: 1. That I have male thought patterns and behaviors (other than how I feel I should dress, obviously), 2. My speech patterns are male (fact, solution based rather than just continuous chat for bonding's sake), 3. I'm turned on by females, and turned off by males; in any given environment, my eyes wander towards females, not males. Over the years, I've experienced plenty of erections while just seeing a smokin' hot female just walking by; never had that happen with a male. Of course you could always say that only indicates what I'm attracted to, not my own sexual identity, but other than wanting to 'feel pretty' all the time, the rest of my life is more typically male. I tried being more like a female, but couldn't. It didn't feel right.

In my early teens, I thought I was a transexual, but the life of a typical female didn't really fit me well. Yes, most of my friendships were with females, not males, but I didn't behave as they did. The endless discussions over seemingly nothing at all, or rehashing the same subject over and over, or examining other people's as well as my own relationships to the point of exhaustion just wasn't something I could stand to do more than for a few minutes, while my girlfriends seemed to delve into it at every single opportunity. I have no desire to have children. Sex, yes; raising kids, no. I don't find babies 'cute', just annoying. I have no 'nesting' behaviors.

If you read the book 'The Biology of Love' by Peter Perper, you will learn about many male and female specific behaviors that are 'bred' into us genetically; I don't seem to display female ones. Likewise, Barbara and Alan Pease wrote a series of books on the differences in male and female thought patterns and speech, which can give us a better understanding of which 'way' we tend to think.

Of course, I've written all this after spending the afternoon cleaning up the house wearing a wig, heels and a maids uniform, and feeling perfectly appropriate doing so, so take it all with a grain of salt.

[Guest JoAnnDallas]

WOW…great reponses…….Here is my 2 cent worth.

A woman that crossdresses does it as a fashion statement. She may be wearing male clothing, but she is still a woman. She is NOT trying to be or emulate a Man. On the other hand a man that crossdresses is not only making a fashion statement but IS trying to be a woman and/or IS emulating a woman. A Male-to-Female Transsexual IS not only making a fashion statement, but IS trying to become a woman in all respects. I would say when a male crossdresser is closeted, they are more like the woman that crossdress. When the same male closeted crossdresser decides to exit their closet and go out into the world dressed as a woman, then she becomes more like the Transsexual if she want to be able to function without being hasseled. A man who goes out in public dressed in femware but still presents as a male WILL not be accepted like the woman that goes out into public dressed in maleware and presents as a female. One thing to remember is ALL Transsexuals were Crossdressers at first, but not all Crossdressers become Transsexuals.

In MY conclusion:

1. A woman that crossdress is not the same as man that crossdresses. She does it as a fashion statement and is NOT trying to be or emulate a Man.

2. A man that crossdress that goes out in public as a woman CAN be similar to a Transsexual. Thus could be classified as a “Part time TS”

3. A Transsexual that goes 24/7 is no longer a crossdresser but IS a woman.

[Castiana]

I see it as a woman can "crossdress" because society has accepted men's clothes to be worn on a woman. so most of a woman's crossdressing can be still considered normal. not necessarily a fashion statement but just a fashion style. for men, society just hasn't caught up yet. I mean, a man in a skirt big deal. the Egyptians did it. the Scots did/do it. I suppose the woman rights stuff helped women get accepted in men's clothes but the men have had not big movement in which they wore womens clothes. this makes skirts, dresses, and panties purely womens clothes in most of society. bras are a little different since a man has no reason to wear one. so wearing a bra can make a guy look weird since he really has no purpose in wearing one unless he just likes the feeling. this generally makes him a pervert in society, but from society's view, why does he need to wear it?

castiana

[Guest Jack Solomon]

Cross-dressers generally cross-dress because it is enjoyable/satisfying to some need or they put on the female role for short periods of time. Many cross-dressers do so either in the privacy of their own home and/or they go out in a female role for short periods of time in their female persona. I can see how one might label this 'part-time TS', but really I would call it more 'part-time presentation as a woman' or something similar to that effect. Cross-dressers generally have no desire to transition and are otherwise comfortable to live their lives as men. Their gender is male. I think it is important not to confuse the two, especially when explaining to nontrans people the difference. The typical cross-dresser most definately is not a transsexual woman and is not trying to be.

And while a transsexual may start out privately 'cross-dressing' before they pursue transitioning, this is usually for a variety of reasons - such as safety, fear, confusion/uncertainty about what they are feeling, having not realized they are transsexual, etc. Transsexuals are still at their core a different gender even before transitioning, and generally have different reasons to 'cross-dress' (in the eyes of society)/wear the clothes appropriate for their female gender than male cross-dressers do.

Female cross-dressing is typically more invisible but there are variations of female cross-dressers. The most visible are drag kings or other gender-bender types. A female cross-dressing to put on the role of a male is usually not acknowledged by society, the male putting on the role of the female is visible and is seen as 'deviant'. Male-appearing clothes worn as a fashion choice for females is not the same as cross-dressing - there is no intent to cross-dress there and the clothes more often than not are still perceived as appropriate or even femininized attire because a female body is wearing them. I could see how it could be said that females do not cross-dress because they are accepted wearing traditionally male clothes but this also means that there is a certain invisibility in their cross-dressing actions. However, there have been females who have been 'cross-dressed' while attacked for being (perceived as) lesbians, so the non-visibility of female cross-dressing does not always stand. There will always be hate in this world for those perceived by someone out there as deviant from the norm.

Solomon

[Petra Jane]

Many cross-dressers do so either in the privacy of their own home and/or they go out in a female role for short periods of time in their female persona.

Cross-dressers generally have no desire to transition and are otherwise comfortable to live their lives as men. Their gender is male.

I can fully agree and identify with Jack's comments. I do so in private, have no desire to become a woman, but because for various reasons I'm unlikely ever to be together with a woman, and no, I'm not Gay and know this really lovely woman whom I would love to be with for the rest of our lives, CD'ing is the only way I'll get near female clothes. It is a real unwinding time for me, de-stresses me so much and lets me retain, at least some of, my sanity some days!

[Guest Evan_J]

I am so sorry to blow this theory, but NEVER has me wearing male clothing been "acceptable'. No strangers thought it was cute, nor did they take it for "fashion". What I did have happen was I got verbally assailed by some women walking on the street who hollered across so that they could be heard that they "knew what something like me was" and "I'm teaching my son too so that when he sees one of you he knows what to do", on another occasion almost ended up in a brawl in a mall parking lot again by a group of people and thankfully the cops drove by. have been dismissed from several jobs because I was "poorly" dressed instead of saying what it actually was that I was male dressed, and basically live in city currently where I watch my back 24/7 because of this supposed "acceptable fashion". Maybe I'm just on mars or its the 3 feet antennaes growing out of my forehead thats ticking folks the heck off..

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora Joann D,

[Perhaps your post title is a little misleading]

Would this be a more appropriate way to descript what you mean by ‘part-time’ transsexual;

A heterosexual crossdresser[male psycho-gendered-like yourself-I take it you still see yourself as male] is ‘mimicking’ the transsexual behaviour in order to look and behave more ‘woman’-like when out in public… [a ‘trans-co-mimic-gyne-co-mimic’-a somewhat long drawn out word I know! but I’m sure you understand what I mean]…Loosely put I guess that WOULD make you a ‘part time’ transsexual…in the ‘mimic’ sense…

If you think about it…It’s an impossibility for a person diagnosed ‘transsexual’ to be part time…It’s hardwired in our brains –you are either transsexual or you are not there’s no in between…

Your analogy does not quite fit with the ‘textbook’ definition of ‘transsexual’ ...But people have a right to see things the way they choose…

Joann, I might not agree with your analogy but hey…how one see themselves is entirely up to them…And as long as they’re happy and content who really gives a !!!!!

“Have a nice day anyway!!!”

What differentiates a transsexual from a 'contented' crossdresser is their 'psychogender' identity...

Metta Jendar

[Guest JoAnnDallas]

Jendar wrote:

If you think about it…It’s an impossibility for a person diagnosed ‘transsexual’ to be part time…It’s hardwired in our brains –you are either transsexual or you are not there’s no in between…

I have been crossdressing since I was 8-9 yrs old. I have tried to be all male, purged many times, but kept coming back to crossdressing. I feel that a crossdressers brain is also HARD WIRED too. Otherwise, we could just stop and that would be the end of it. It is hard to really put labels on all this. I would say the only label that fits both CD and TS is TG. We are all Transgendered.

[Guest Jasmine is questioning]

Well i think that some transexuals might start out by crossdressing. In fact i think thats the case with me