Exp. With Church

[Guest rynae]

At a very young age i went to church and enjoyed everyone got together and play music, preach god name. However i could not help how some of the things they were preaching kind of made no sense. When i was like eight or nine i would ask lots of questions about the lessons they taught and always felt that i never had the "correct answer". What is a person suppose to do when they cannot be fruitful and spread the seed? why is it that an intersex person was born the way they are? Why can we not see jesus or god in person right now? why can a man not lay with another man? Why can man not dress as a female? Plus i always felt their were loop holes in the bible and what they taught. The only thing i really like about church was the unity and kindness we shared with each othe. Everyday we thought of ways how to start a fund and help other organizations who are in need of help. Then everything change when i saw this one specific video in church where it showed the nine levels of of the underworld. When they got to the speaking about how people like me go down there i shaking and laughing historically. I laughed becaused i could not controll myself and thought this was all a dream. That was actually the last day the van that came to pick me and my brother to church ever came to pick us up. I still see them when i head off to go to my part time job. SCARY. How were all of your church experiance like?

[VickySGV]

Mods -- Hell is a place name where I use it here, not an expletive!!

It seems from what you have said, that you were in what is referred to as a "literalist" church that really did not have people with a broad understanding of The Church and its history. I am guessing that you are fairly young, and still have a bit of awe for the older people in the church itself. There are in actuality, bibles that do not say things exactly the way you quoted them, mostly because they are based on new translations of the oldest and most reliable transcripts. Surprisingly, none of the oldest manuscripts say a single thing about Gays, Lesbians, or TransFolk. OK, it should not be surprising, since we weren't around as such 4K years ago. Even the concepts we know as Hell, the place, are not in the original manuscripts, and the idea of Hell can be traced in documents that were written AFTER the original canon of the Bible appeared.

If you love your Christian Faith as I do, it won't harm you in the least to start reading books that give a scholastic approach to understanding the faith and the Bible, and that will probably fly in the face of some of what you have learned so far, but like a diamond which needs flaws in its crystaline structure to have the beauty we see in a diamond, so does the Christian Faith.

Some books I would suggest, are anything written by C.S. Lewis who also wrote the Chroicles Of Narnia that have recently become motion pictures -- most people do not see Aslan the lion as a "Christ Type" but he is. Lewis' book, The Great Divorce gives a very different idea of what Hell is, and a different view of those who end up there. When you read that book, you can get a smile on your face, because the ones entering and staying in Heaven are the ones who know themselves as well as we have to know ourselves!!

Another class of literature you might find useful is called "Textual Criticism" a good author with some recent, readable works is Bart D. Ehrman, who has several books about the origin of the New Testament in history and in its history of translation.

For Old Testament Textual Criticism, look for Richard Elliot Friedman, whose book Who Wrote The Bible is like a detective novel done on a real life case, by a real detective. Both Friedman and Ehrman are teaching at public Universities and are well thought of by everyone EXCEPT the most rabid literalists.

An individual title that I would recommend is The Good Book, by the late Rev. Peter Gomes, who was the University Chaplain at Harvard for many years, and who was gay. He takes the "hate chapters" and shows where they are not really that way.

Warning, if you do read any of this material I have pointed you toward, you are not going to really be welcome at a literalist church any more. Sorry to do that, but even the Bible has one good piece of advice for us about that. When Jesus comissioned the disciples to go on their first missionary journeys, he concluded by saying ".... wherever you are not received, leave, and in leaving shake the dust of that place from your feet."

The Episcopal Churches, Presbyterian Churches, Metropolitan Community Churches, Methodist (mostly), one branch of the Lutheran Church and some individual congregations of other churches can be VERY welcoming and open to the idea that Heaven is not closed to us.

PM me if you can now, or when you get a few more posts in, if you do have questions. I do a lot of reading about my faith, and I am active in my church which has welcomed the "transfigured" me after having known the past ME for 20 years. Its wonderful.

[Guest rynae]

When my parents were curious to why none of us could return to church they ask the people why that is. They replied saying that is not a good ideal for us to be there and that was it...

I will never forget what happen. That day took away several nights of sleeping comfortable in my own bed. Even today that video of hell really scare me. Maybe one day i'll rejoice with all the people i spend time with in church when i die and go to heaven. But until then i can only continue to pray that god will change everything one day.

[Guest Julie T]

Rynae

The modern Christian hell is a carryover from another time period, when morality was force fed and God was an artist's interpretation of a huge male great grandfather on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. Most modern churches understand that most everything is metaphorical, but not all. I think you were in one that believed that the best way to make you righteous was scare the hell into you. You know the result that had. It was a terrible experience that made you flee far away, rather than reign you in to a lifetime of guilt.

Not all churches are like that, Not all religions are like that either. You can search for something that is a good fit, and maybe you can reconcile your rational belief system by being with with people of like minds.

I selected the Unitarian Universalist Church, which has no creed. It looks upon Christianity as a value system to learn from, but considers all belief systems as valid. When they told me it was about ethical living, I knew I had found a place of like minded people. When we discussed rational thought as the true path, I was captured heart and soul. As an example, the two hymns we sang today spoke of the Goddess.

I hope you find your path. We do best when we have a structured way to study the world, and the Creator's Will.

Julie

[VickySGV]

The video that you say you saw was indeed terrible, and was frankly meant to literally scare the HELL out of you. It was the fact that you were upset by the video that told the people that you had a problem they just did not want to deal with. The rest of the kids "knew they were not like any of the tormented souls", and so it had no chance to scare them like it scared you. They were probably feeling pretty smug about it too.

I have seen many of those videos/films, and they are as bad as many other horror fiction films, such as Silence Of The Lambs, Vertigo (that one dates me), Nightmare on Elm Street, The Shining, movies about vampires and others I can't remember. The difference is that the one you saw was created by APPROVED CHRISTIAN sources, and therefor do not have the "Devil's influence" attached to them. They are just as inaccurate and speculative as any Big Screen movie that attracts the "godless children" in any town. Your condition meant nothing per se to the film makers, it was an old script with new graphics, and it was a script that sold movies to churches who disaprove of Hollywood films.

The Narnia films which are based on the writings of a very wonderful Christian Scholar are spurned by many so called Christian Literalists because the characters include a witch and a magician, who these groups say are instruments of the devil and point to a limited number of Old Testament passages that really only deal with the clergy of the religions in lands the Children Of Israel conquered. Never mind what they are saying this week about Harry Potter, but even Harry and his friends are stories about the rule of evil, and how it will be overcome by good.

I am very sorry that you had sleepless nights over the film, but I am even sadder that it caused other people to Shun you and drive you away from a place that you loved. That is not Christian in my book. I do indeed think that God will answer your prayers, but it will not be all people very soon. The answer to your prayer though may be "get off your rear end" and join a place that will let you be a leader and wonderful example for others.

[Guest DawnK]

Growing up, I was a 7 day a week church go'er. But even then I had questions that no one would or could answer. For example, I was taught that God would not allow Sin in his presence. That's why Christ called out "Why has thou forsaken me." I was told it was at that moment, Christ took on all our sins and God turned his back on his son. Yet the book of Job is God and the Devil sitting around talking and God allowed the Devil to take everything away from the man. It was supposed to be okay because God returned everything 10 fold for his faith. Well explain that to the first wife and children who died.

But then I began learning that most of the Christian Holy days were arranged around Pagan holidays to attract the people to the new religion. There is a book titled Fossilized Customs that explains a lot of these things.

I've also heard that museums have been known to hide or destroy articles that do not fit or bring into question established teaching and theories in religion and evolution. Remember, the world was flat until the church said it wasn't, the earth was the center of the universe until the church said it wasn't, and aliens didn't exist until the church said "if they do exist, they are part of Gods plan."

And if you are really stuck on religion, ask yourself, "What religion is God?" If you can come up with any answer other that none that works for you, go with that one. But I lost faith in organized religions when the answer to my questions kept being answered with, "Because that's what the church teaches us."

And for the record, I do still believe in God. But of all the religions, the thing I've found that they all have in common is to Love everyone and Serve others. That's how I try to live my life.

The bottom line is that it's up to us to search out and find our own ways. I don't believe any one religion is the right one, but there's some truth in all of them. Good Luck on your Journey.

dk