The Gender Recognition Bill

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora

Umm I'm beginning to like this poll set up...I wonder how long that will last...

I have put this in the general forum because not all trans-people who wish to live full time in their preferred would call themselves 'transsexual'

I know to some, this may sound like a weird question to ask, but I was surprised to find that not all trans-people are fully supportive of this…

The British government passed the ‘Gender Recognition Bill back in 2004.

The act was in fully swing late 2005…What this meant was transgender people regardless of whether they have had bottom surgery or not were entitled to be fully recognised in their socially acquired/affirmed gender...

All that a trans person was required to do was to have been diagnosed with gender dysphoria and have been living full time[name change and HRT] in their affirmed gender for a minimum period of two years…And sign the necessary documents stating that they would live out the rest of their lives as their acquired gender…

Now I personally would have taken it for granted that ‘all’ trans-people around the world would be fully supportive of such an act being past by their governments…But was shocked to find that some trans-people were dead set against such a thing happening…Two trans women that I know[both happen to have had their surgery] have said that they didn’t believe that a trans-person who has not had genital surgery should be legally recognised as their affirmed gender…

This would mean that the gender on their birth certificate could not be changed, meaning they would have no legal rights such as to marry the person of their choice[if they were heterosexual] nor could they obtain a passport in their acquired gender if they wish to travel overseas or go ‘stealth’ job wise if they were fortunate enough to blend in…

Those of you who have already had or are planning to have surgery[can afford to] would you support such a bill?

And those who can’t have surgery for whatever reasons medical or finance, do you think such a bill would be a good thing?

Happy mindfulness

Metta Jendar

[Guest Christine-Louise]

Hi Jendar,

As I live in the UK and have My gender recognition and birth certificate, I have to say that it was well worth waiting for, The Gender Recognition Bill that is, for without it I wouldn't have all the benefits that I now get (The likes of a Female Pension), even though I cannot have any surgery for medical reasons, I am one of those that consider themselves extremely lucky to be in My position, I get everything that I could have ever wanted, apart from Genital Surgery, I should add that I have had five yes five heart attacks, and also suffer from Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease, I have an assurance that if I undergo Surgery there is an 95% certainty of death as a result, also they can't find an Anesthetist willing to take Me on anyway with those percentages, but I am happy to get as far as I have been able to get, I don't do too badly to get chatted up by Men though I don't let it get out of hand, as I have no interest in a relationship not at My age, I am happy just Lucy and I.

So in conclusion I would like to say just what a wonderful thing that (The Gender Recognition Bill) is, and that there should be something similar everywhere.

[haythorx]

I could say that I would oppose it because without it, you would be required to think more about your decisions before making them. No acting on impulse here. With it, you could easily get far into the process before realizing you made a mistake.

[Guest Keira]

I'd definitely support such a bill, although I do have a transsexual friend who is opposed to it (interestingly, she is post-op. I wonder if she'd feel the same if she was still pre-op). At the end of the day, I don't need a birth certificate saying "female" to validate my gender identity, but of course, it would make things so much easier if I did have that legal recognition.

[Guest lisa49]

I think they should remove gender from all legal documents. It is just a form of discrimination. Any two people should have a right to marry. Besides there are people born that do not fit the definition of one gender or the other. Let us do away with binary discrimination. With today's records on computers there is no such thing as 100% stealth.

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora Haythrox and others.

First I would like to apologise to all…I thought I had set up a proper poll, but I must have clicked the wrong icon, but this seems to be working just fine…

An act such as the GRA would not have any impact on those who have had or can afford to have surgery…But would greatly improve the quality of life for those who can not for whatever reason….

By opposing such a bill don’t you[Haythorx] think you would be condemning people in a similar situation to Christine Louise to a life of awkward, embarrassing, moments, for example, when people in her position need to present legal documents which state their birth sex ?

The British Gender Recognition Panel [working with the help of the local trans-community] had to come up with what they believe to be a just and workable model, that would not be seen as discriminatory, but with conditions in place that would to a certain extent safe guard one against making a mistake that could cause much grief …a loss that could not be retrieved…

Those trans-people who have not had bottom surgery and obtain this recognition, if they change their minds and decide a life of the opposite sex is not for them-apart from the effects of HRT, their bottom male/female parts are still in tacked…

It’s possible the British government, not just out of compassion but also for economical reasons passed this bill- In the UK for people who pass all the evaluations, psychiatric assessments and the RLE [set out and approved by the necessary health authorities] G.A.S[gender affirming surgery] is government funded-costing the tax payer thousands upon thousands of pounds a year… It’s possible some trans-people may not necessarily want surgery but feel they must have it done to be ‘legally’ recognised in their acquired gender… I feel that the British government has giving the long suffering trans-person a ‘choice’ and it is a choice… One does not have to apply for this recognition if ones does not want too…

The Gender Recognition Act has now made it an equal playing field for the haves and the have nots…and the cans and the can nots...

But again some of you might still see things quite differently and that’s your prerogative and I hope you will share your reason/s why…

Happy mindfulness and may such a bill be past by all governments

Metta Jendar

[Guest Christine-Louise]

I would like to add that for those like Myself who apply for Gender Recognition on Medical grounds, that there is a six year period of transition before you can apply, with proof that you have lived in the preferred gender for all of that time, a panel of people not all medically trained sit and discuss every application on merit, and as long as you can satisfy them that you are genuine you get passed to the next stage, and I have to say that not everyone gets through, I used to have a friend who didn't so it's not a foregone conclusion, after surgery She re/applied and was accepted, all in all it's not quite as simple as it might sound.

[haythorx]

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I didn't mean to say that I oppose it, but if I was, this would be the reason. Any politics regarding trans issues is a wacky world. It's not very simple. I don't really have a stance concerning this, if I was to oppose it, I would because of decision making related issues. It may be reversible, but it still would be a hassle (being recognized as a man then a woman then a man again). If I was to support it, probably because the actual surgery is just a physical modification and not a true reflection of the person.

[Guest Sarah Marie]

Once again the UK is way ahead of the US in humane domestic policies. This law is very definitely needed here in the US for several reasons. First, until reassignment surgery is completed, one's gender marker cannot be changes on most legal documents and records, including those maintained by Social Security. Second, until such a law is passed, male to female transsexuals (in particular) face serious problems with proper public restroom usage. Just last year a trasnssexual fully dressed as her female self was arrested and charged with disturbing the peace in Boise, ID after being seen entering a women's restroom. If written right, such a law could address this dilemma.

What I feel is needed in this country is a new Federal law, similar to the UK law, that mandates the issuance of gender identity-conforming photo IDs (driver's licence or state ID card) by all states. Otherwise there are states (Idaho is definitely one) that will never address these issues.

Sarah Marie

[haythorx]

I tend to believe that the government should have less control of our lives, and thus I don't think we need several new laws requiring people to act certain ways. It would be nice if people could just act they way they were made to act...

[Guest Tara]

is it just me or is haythorox something im not seeing? behave as we are supposed to act as men and women from birth? your advocating that on a trans site i smell something fishy here....

[MaryEllen]

We all smelled something fishy. That's why Haythrox has been banned from the site.

[Guest silverpetals]

oh, of course. dissent with the general consensus and you get banned; i'm sure all's fair...

[MaryEllen]

A lot went on behind the scenes that the general membership didn't see. The banning was justified.

[Guest Donna Jean]

Thanks, Mary Ellen, for keeping an eye out....I know that you see lots behind the scenes that we don't get the chance to see and would most likely be really p.o. ed if they were posted. I know that you try to be as fair as possible.....everyone must remember that this is not a democracy, that this is Laura's site and she makes the rules- some decorum must apply. We are all guests here....check out many of the polls and discussions..all views are allowed as long as it is kept civil and clean. All sides and opinions are chatted about.

Thanks, Mary Ellen for keeping it a great site.....

Peace

Donna Jean

[Guest Evan_J]

No doubt. I mean "act the way you were made to act"??? How far do you need it to go to be called transbashing? Thats not the purpose of this site. This site belongs in fact to Laura and in spirit to the trans people. ...I feel like waving a flag.

[Guest Christine-Louise]

I agree with what has been said, thank you to all the staff at Laura's for keeping things in order.

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora,

Hey guys, Haythorx came out in the wash[feedback] just like the other 'stains' in this forum have done and no doubt will continue to do so...But some of you still haven't said what you think about such a bill being past in your country??? I'm still waiting!!!

Happy Mindfulness and may the stain removers continue to do their good work...

Metta Jendar

[Guest Nekomata]

I would support it. It would be nice to live in a world where people don't have to take hormones or surgery and be treated as their target gender. Even if the bill was passed it doesn't mean I'd change my personal choices, though. I like the hormones because of what they do for my mood and personality, and I would still want SRS to stop bad hormones from flowing in, for body conformity, and so I could have intercourse the way I want.

[Guest Drew]

i would support it for sure. because let's face it, most of the FTM surgeries suck and i don't want to have an 'F' on my birth certificate for the rest of my life just because doctors can't give me a functional penis that isn't smaller than a mini hot-dog. that's my own selfish reason but i do also believe that it would greatly benefit those who can't have surgery for medical reasons or just don't want surgery. i'm all for it.

[Guest Evan_J]

Ditto what Drew said. I definately would be for it too. Me choosing to have surgery shouldn't mandate everybody have the same choice. And its especially unfair to those that can't.

....now all we gotta do is figure out how to keep folks who aren't living as given gender from claiming they are so that they can avoid or obtain god only knows what....like being drafted.

Then agian, most of those things shouldn't be gender exclusive anyhoow.

[Guest joanna09]

There are some very interesting comments here but I must say thanks to Laura and co for sorting out the good from the bad we don't need comments like that here god alone knows all of us know what we have to go through to be what we want to be. I think laws should be past to recognise us after what harm are we doing so I want to be woman big deal thats for me to worry about and as I can see from this site and others the majority of us are law abiding citzens and want to staty that way. As you can see I am from UK and I am glad to see what they have done I know you guys in the states do have your problems and it should not happen, just going off on tangent when out dressed as Joanna very much in the tourist season here in France the only two nationalities who seem to really stare are those from the USA and from England, funny that here in France the French don't really bother just thought I'd mention that, but at the end its each to their own be what you want to be and don't give in its not always easy, but the thought of not being able to go out as Joanna does not bear thinking about.

Fondest Regards

Joanna

[Sally]

I would very definately support such a law. As it stands right now, we don't really have any rights until after the surgery and how you are treated by governemt agencies will depend on how well you pass. A Gender Recognition Act would help to seperate sex from gender. It would be tremendous for a lot of us who might not ever be able to have the surgery for whatever reason. What's between your legs shouldn't run your whole life.

Sally

[Guest julia_d]

Also from the UK. I find it to be a wonderfully affirming law. It takes transgender out of the "special" category and puts us firmly in the mainstream rights held by the rest of society. Nobody told me I needed to get one of these certificates, and I thought I was going to have to carry the stigma of my birth certificate to my grave.. which would have the wrong name on it. Why I wasn't informed at any time of the need to do this I'm unsure. Thinking that I lived with a post op for 2 years they would have said something, but I found out since that they are against it as many post ops are. I don't understand their thinking as most actually have a certificate.. Is it jealousy or something deeper.. some sort of "I got what I wanted, but I still want to be treated as special so I will try to leave everybody who comes after me in the hell I escaped from"

I don't know, but the one thing I do know after living in my chosen gender now for 8 years is I want one, and as soon as humanly possible.

[Guest LauderdaleLady]

I am for a version of the Gender Recognition Act in this country. However, the British act seems a little to restrictive. First, why not have the bill apply to all people who are in gender dysphoria therapy, without any waiting period. Secondly, unlike what I think that the British act does, I think that once someone has had gender reassignment surgery (that was the term they used when I got mine), they should be able to amend/change their records so that their records are no different than someone who was born in their desired gender.

But there is another bigger concern here. We need to be able to get the surgery for free or at nominal cost. I was fortunate while I was making my transition that my insurance company through work was willing to cover the surgery (after some prodding). Now, I think that most insurance plans will not cover the cost of the surgery, nor, of course, will our government.

--Janet