"I thought had my gender issues behind me, but they're flooding back."

[Guest jdinatale]

If you notice, I haven't made any posts in the past couple of weeks. That's because I thought that I had finally put my gender issues behind me and that I could finally move on with my life with a man.

It all started when my counselor and I read the DSM-IV article on Gender Identity Disorder. After thoroughly perusing the paragraphs, we concluded that I did not even actually have GID. I simply did not meet the medical criteria. We realized that I was just an autogynephiliac. This initially brought some relief - it meant that I did not have to transition and endure the hardships that accompanies it. I should have been happy, but I left the office that day feeling incredibly sad.

I don't get any peace from my AGP feelings. The only relief I find is when I self gratification to them, which I have to do chronically, sometimes multiple times per day. Whenever I see a girl, I want, not to have sex with her, but to be her, to have her body and clothes.

It's very disruptive to my school work and otherwise normal life as a man. These feelings are so incongruent with my male identity - I'm not feminine at all and all of my hobbies are stereotypical male.

I'm not sure how to satisfy this intense internal desire to be female. Does anyone know of my options? I've been throwing around some ideas. What if I refilled my HRT prescription, went back on it, but presented myself as male and went about my life as a man?

[Guest Madison_Always]

I think that if going on hormones and living as a man will make you happy, do it. If transitioning to female will make you happy do that. Or lastly, if staying as a man will make you happiest do that. That being said, I recommend you do a chart where you put the pros and cons of each choice and physically see the potential outcomes of each and that way you could try and analyze which path you would like to take. I truly hope you come to the best decision for you.

Madison =)

[Guest Jenth]

Hi,

As much as Madison's idea is logical it's missing a very important factor which ruins the whole idea. Driving, Incessant, Insisting, Need. Notice I didn't say desire. That's cause non of us desire this. I don't know you, and I can't feel your feelings, but I can tell you if their the same as mine it's a need not a desire. That said the only way to know is to do a "getting to know yourself" type of journey. One that you tear yourself up over. I suggest taking a trained therapist with you. And you're Mormon right? that's a part of this whole struggle isn't it? Why not ask the Big Man on top for some help while your at it. That's the second time I've told someone to pray today, maybe i should go back to church. Either way it works out you'll have realize that you have the potential to be amazing, and stop beating yourself up for being yourself.

Noticed your gender selection; just saying,

Think long and hard about who you are. Imagine yourself in a forest, There's giant redwoods, small fir trees, A juniper or two, a couple squirrels playing in a tree. You're kneeling by a lake. The water is crystal clear and cold to the touch, It's being fed by a small brook, You lean over to gaze at your reflection, who do you see?

[Guest Szenzie]

It's very disruptive to my school work and otherwise normal life as a man. These feelings are so incongruent with my male identity - I'm not feminine at all and all of my hobbies are stereotypical male.

My beautiful cis female wife likes many "stereotypical" guy things, like sports, heavy metal, and she likes chugging beers at bars. She'll also outplay, outrock, and outchug most guys. Does this make her less of a female? No. Keyword "stereotypical." Gender identity has nothing to do with your expression.

Jenth is right, you shouldn't beat yourself up over who you are I had sent you a PM before and I really hope that you consider taking some time to consider what I suggested. In any case, just be true to yourself

[Guest Shauna B]

Think long and hard about who you are. Imagine yourself in a forest, There's giant redwoods, small fir trees, A juniper or two, a couple squirrels playing in a tree. You're kneeling by a lake. The water is crystal clear and cold to the touch, It's being fed by a small brook, You lean over to gaze at your reflection, who do you see?

That was extremely eloquently put! There is absolutely nothing I can add that!

Shauna

[Guest jdinatale]

At the end of the day, it comes down to this: In all aspects of my life, I am content as a male EXCEPT for this pesky sexual issue where I fantasize and strongly desire to be female. I can't get any peace from it. When I see girls at school, I want to be them instead of want to have sex with them. It's so frustrating!

I think that if going on hormones and living as a man will make you happy, do it. If transitioning to female will make you happy do that. Or lastly, if staying as a man will make you happiest do that. That being said, I recommend you do a chart where you put the pros and cons of each choice and physically see the potential outcomes of each and that way you could try and analyze which path you would like to take. I truly hope you come to the best decision for you.

Madison =)

Good idea....here is the chart:

Pros/Cons of staying a man:

Pros:

-Maintain a good relationship with family

-Much greater chance to be successful in career (investment banker)

-Will get to be a husband/father

-Get to eat more as a man and still remain lean (seriously...)

-Participate in my favorite manly activities (i.e. cagefighting, boxing, jiu-jitsu, wrestling...)

-Get to talk in guy mode (I hate my female voice)

Cons:

-Will never satisfy the intense internal desire to be female

-Won't likely to ever be sexually satisfied

-Could live to regret NOT transitioning

Pros/Cons of becoming a woman:

Pros:

-Will finally get relief from AGP thoughts and feelings

-Will be satisfied sexually

Cons:

-Will lose all of my family (They already said so)

-Will likely not get my dream job

-Could become a regret

Hi,

As much as Madison's idea is logical it's missing a very important factor which ruins the whole idea. Driving, Incessant, Insisting, Need. Notice I didn't say desire. That's cause non of us desire this. I don't know you, and I can't feel your feelings, but I can tell you if their the same as mine it's a need not a desire. That said the only way to know is to do a "getting to know yourself" type of journey. One that you tear yourself up over. I suggest taking a trained therapist with you. And you're Mormon right? that's a part of this whole struggle isn't it? Why not ask the Big Man on top for some help while your at it. That's the second time I've told someone to pray today, maybe i should go back to church. Either way it works out you'll have realize that you have the potential to be amazing, and stop beating yourself up for being yourself.

Noticed your gender selection; just saying,

Think long and hard about who you are. Imagine yourself in a forest, There's giant redwoods, small fir trees, A juniper or two, a couple squirrels playing in a tree. You're kneeling by a lake. The water is crystal clear and cold to the touch, It's being fed by a small brook, You lean over to gaze at your reflection, who do you see?

I'm mormon in culture, but atheist in actual religious views.

Ok, when I look into the brook, I don't see a male or female. I just see jdinatale. I'm just "me" whether that is boy or girl.

It's very disruptive to my school work and otherwise normal life as a man. These feelings are so incongruent with my male identity - I'm not feminine at all and all of my hobbies are stereotypical male.

My beautiful cis female wife likes many "stereotypical" guy things, like sports, heavy metal, and she likes chugging beers at bars. She'll also outplay, outrock, and outchug most guys. Does this make her less of a female? No. Keyword "stereotypical." Gender identity has nothing to do with your expression.

Jenth is right, you shouldn't beat yourself up over who you are I had sent you a PM before and I really hope that you consider taking some time to consider what I suggested. In any case, just be true to yourself

Yes, I know people don't have to be stereotypical....but I don't fit into Gender Identity Disorder unless I have stereotypical female identity traits (according to the DSM-IV...)

[Guest Amanda Whyte]

The way you described your therapy session bring to my mind a question, is your therapist a Gender Therapist? Are you still seeing the one from the church?

You really need to work with a Gender Therapist that knows about this. It is easy to look at the letter of the law, so to speak, in the book but there are different ways to interpret things.

[Guest CaliforniaKatie]

I would have you make another list. What does being “like her” mean to you?

I’ve come out m2f and live full time. No surgery or hormones. I am the one walking down the middle of the street, bumping people going both ways. For the most part I don’t ‘fit in’ as a fem guy. Although I usually wear pants my clothes are all woman’s. But after having a son, a career, or two, I now feel like I’m being true to myself and in the presentation of myself. I am different and as such a potential ‘threat’ to most that don’t know me. I’ve hand picked my ‘family’ for our support of each other. I’m very active in my church as a board member making policy. In the past I’ve turned down jobs (ie: irs tax collector) as they did not express my values.

Best of luck. There is no wrong road, some just take the scenic route.

[Guest Madison_Always]

Jenth,

I comppletely understand your point about the need, not desire, to transition. I too have a distinct need to transition, however, there are many varying paths to take towards personal peace and hapiness. I was simply suggesting do what makes you happy, as long as you arent causing anyone, including yourself, harm of course.

Jdinatale,

It is ok to not be totally male or female. We all live along the gender spectrum. And I also have experienced immense peace about my decisions through prayer, so I second the recommendation of praying about it.

Madison =)

[Guest Leah1026]

If you notice, I haven't made any posts in the past couple of weeks. That's because I thought that I had finally put my gender issues behind me and that I could finally move on with my life with AS a man.

You can't control your gender. It is what it is.

It all started when my counselor and I read the DSM-IV article on Gender Identity Disorder. After thoroughly perusing the paragraphs, we concluded that I did not even actually have GID. I simply did not meet the medical criteria. We realized that I was just an autogynephiliac. This initially brought some relief - it meant that I did not have to transition and endure the hardships that accompanies it. I should have been happy, but I left the office that day feeling incredibly sad.

AGP doesn't exist. At this point I think you're either in deep denial or just a poser. How else can you explain clinging to that tired, old, discredited theory of Dr Bailey's?

By your clinical presentation, or at least what you've said here, you're probably transsexual. I don't care what that QUACK you're seeing says.

I don't get any peace from my AGP feelings. The only relief I find is when I self gratification to them, which I have to do chronically, sometimes multiple times per day. Whenever I see a girl, I want, not to have sex with her, but to be her, to have her body and clothes.

It's very disruptive to my school work and otherwise normal life as a man. These feelings are so incongruent with my male identity - I'm not feminine at all and all of my hobbies are stereotypical male.

I'm not sure how to satisfy this intense internal desire to be female. Does anyone know of my options? I've been throwing around some ideas. What if I refilled my HRT prescription, went back on it, but presented myself as male and went about my life as a man?

You want peace? Forget this AGP crap and embrace your true self. Your feelings, your true self, will haunt you until the day you do.

[Guest Maria_B]

I'm with Leah on this one.

You say you want to continue with your normal life as a man? Honey, I don't think you have one.

[Guest ZoeG360]

When I started therapy by GT held out on the GID diagnosis for a while because she wanted to rule out obsessive compulsive disorder/behaviors. It seems that OCD things around sexuality can present as GID especially if you don't land cleanly at either pole of the gender binary which you clearly do not.

As we explored this, I asked what is it about OCD that distinguishes it because so many of my behaviors seemed to cut both ways. Her reply made sense to me. Its OCD when it is interfering with your life. GID is not that way, its about your gender being in-congruent with your body.

From your description you might be dealing more with OCD problems or at least they are at the forefront dominating whatever GID things are going on.

Only a qualified GT is going to be able to help you tease those apart and you should address all of this long before making a transitioning decision. For some, the decision to transition is a no-brainer; its live or die. For me, its not that "easy" (and I only mean that in terms of the complexity of the decision, transitioning is not easy) and I am going at it slowly (sometimes agonizingly) and progressively.

Looking at your pros and cons list, your decision process does not appear to be driven by gender, but by behavior. (Disclaimer: I am not a psych and may be full of baloney. YMMV)

Zoe

[Cyndee]

I have read your posts now for a while, this all seems circular and quite a tale indeed.

You want relief from these self described problems, then take your estrogen and pray, you'll feel better honey. Just think in a few short weeks, you could have clarity of thought, and when you see a pretty girl, you can truely appreciate her and what god has done. God created female and all their beauty, you can be her and be happy, is this not what you want ? God loves you no matter what, and god will answer you. Don't let others define you. Be yourself, carve your own path in life, listen to your heart, the answers lie there not in some diagnostic book or with church provided therapists. It takes real courage to face this condition, denial will only lead to emptyness, and as Leah says above, it will never go away.

Take care

Cindy -

[Guest Svenna]

If you notice, I haven't made any posts in the past couple of weeks. That's because I thought that I had finally put my gender issues behind me and that I could finally move on with my life with AS a man.

You can't control your gender. It is what it is.

It all started when my counselor and I read the DSM-IV article on Gender Identity Disorder. After thoroughly perusing the paragraphs, we concluded that I did not even actually have GID. I simply did not meet the medical criteria. We realized that I was just an autogynephiliac. This initially brought some relief - it meant that I did not have to transition and endure the hardships that accompanies it. I should have been happy, but I left the office that day feeling incredibly sad.

AGP doesn't exist. At this point I think you're either in deep denial or just a poser. How else can you explain clinging to that tired, old, discredited theory of Dr Bailey's?

By your clinical presentation, or at least what you've said here, you're probably transsexual. I don't care what that QUACK you're seeing says.

I don't get any peace from my AGP feelings. The only relief I find is when I self gratification to them, which I have to do chronically, sometimes multiple times per day. Whenever I see a girl, I want, not to have sex with her, but to be her, to have her body and clothes.

It's very disruptive to my school work and otherwise normal life as a man. These feelings are so incongruent with my male identity - I'm not feminine at all and all of my hobbies are stereotypical male.

I'm not sure how to satisfy this intense internal desire to be female. Does anyone know of my options? I've been throwing around some ideas. What if I refilled my HRT prescription, went back on it, but presented myself as male and went about my life as a man?

You want peace? Forget this AGP crap and embrace your true self. Your feelings, your true self, will haunt you until the day you do.

Leah has cut to the chase!

I highlighted points that I feel worthy of extra-consideration...

Best to you, JD

Svenna

[Guest jdinatale]

AGP doesn't exist. At this point I think you're either in deep denial or just a poser. How else can you explain clinging to that tired, old, discredited theory of Dr Bailey's?

By your clinical presentation, or at least what you've said here, you're probably transsexual. I don't care what that QUACK you're seeing says.

You want peace? Forget this AGP crap and embrace your true self. Your feelings, your true self, will haunt you until the day you do.

This is why it is very difficult for me to have a good conversation with many transgender women...instead of dogmatically insisting that AGP doesn't exist, please try to understand from my perspective. For those of us with AGP, we can tell you with all of our conviction that it is a very real phenomenon. Hear me out:

AGP is not made up, but very much existing and a more modern term to describe the type of MTF that vastly differs from the strictly androphilic MTF, that was gender-atypical since childhood(Think Kim Petras)or, as the type is sometimes also called, the "Homosexual transsexual"(According to the biological birth-sex), or "HSTS", in short.

Some, however, try to make it as the term and condition is not real, as they find it uncomfortable and threatening.

That being said, I do not agree that it is a Fetish, and niether does the controversial Ray Blanchard, as he recently wanted it removed from the fetish-category in the DSM.

The two types of MTF are very different, and that is also the reason why they often misunderstand each other. The so called HSTS do not understand the AGP when the AGP talks about "The woman inside" and the AGP do not understand the HSTS when she talks about having SRS to be able to sleep with straight males, and even finds it shocking.

Anyway, the following is a discription of how AGP very often displays itself(Remember that AGP can manifest itself in different ways, and just as it can be a very obviously erotic yearning, it can also manifest itself as something that do not seem erotic at all for the person experiencing it, but rather feel like a undeniable longing for womanhood;

Autogynephilic transsexuals (AGPs) transition to satisfy an intense internal urge to be the opposite gender. This urge is sometimes described as a paraphilia, a fetish, or an inverted heterosexual drive where they, attracted to women and want to become the objects of their desire. They are attracted to the female physical form, so their core sexuality is heterosexual (as men), but since their preferred object of desire is not another person but themselves, they have a very atypical and complicated sexuality. They often find it confusing, and mysterious, and while they are in the vast majority of cases originally attracted to women, their perceived sexual orientation may shift. They are not physically attracted to men but may be interested in men for other reasons, to complete their autogynephilic fantasy of themselves as a woman. Autogynephilic transsexuals are etiologically similar to transvestites. They tend to view becoming a woman as a life goal in and of itself, one they are willing to abandon important features of their life such as a wife or children, job, and being seen as a normal person in order to accomplish.

Behaviorally as men, they tend to be averagely masculine, straight acting heterosexuals. They can potentially transition at any age though most transition as adults. Unlike hsts who are never very successful socially as males, agps often marry as men, have biological children with their wives, and lead successful lives as men before they transition. Physically they are averagely male in appearance until transition, and rarely pass in a truly convincing way as women, which is not nearly as distressing for them as it would be to a hsts because their reasons for transitioning do not depend on how well they are going to be socially adjusted after they are finished. AGPs typically start out as heterosexual, gender normative, socially acceptable men and end up as homosexual (lesbian) or bisexual, gender variant, less than socially acceptable women, but given the specifics of their disorder, they are often still happier as female than male despite being less well off by most objective measures.

When I started therapy by GT held out on the GID diagnosis for a while because she wanted to rule out obsessive compulsive disorder/behaviors. It seems that OCD things around sexuality can present as GID especially if you don't land cleanly at either pole of the gender binary which you clearly do not.

As we explored this, I asked what is it about OCD that distinguishes it because so many of my behaviors seemed to cut both ways. Her reply made sense to me. Its OCD when it is interfering with your life. GID is not that way, its about your gender being in-congruent with your body.

From your description you might be dealing more with OCD problems or at least they are at the forefront dominating whatever GID things are going on.

Only a qualified GT is going to be able to help you tease those apart and you should address all of this long before making a transitioning decision. For some, the decision to transition is a no-brainer; its live or die. For me, its not that "easy" (and I only mean that in terms of the complexity of the decision, transitioning is not easy) and I am going at it slowly (sometimes agonizingly) and progressively.

Looking at your pros and cons list, your decision process does not appear to be driven by gender, but by behavior. (Disclaimer: I am not a psych and may be full of baloney. YMMV)

Zoe

Thanks Zoe. I worked with a psychiatrist and we tried medication for obsessive thoughts. We concluded that this is not an obsession.

I have read your posts now for a while, this all seems circular and quite a tale indeed.

You want relief from these self described problems, then take your estrogen and pray, you'll feel better honey. Just think in a few short weeks, you could have clarity of thought, and when you see a pretty girl, you can truely appreicate her and what god has done. God created female and all their beauty, you can be her and be happy, is this not what you want ? God loves you no matter what, and god will answer you. Don't let others define you. Be yourself, carve your own path in life, listen to your heart, the answers lie there not in some diagnostic book or with church provided therapists. It takes real courage to face this condition, denial will only lead to emptyness, and as Leah says above, it will never go away.

Take care

Cindy -

Yes, I was on estrogen for 20 days. I then flushed my pills down the drain, caving into pressure from my home life and my own internal conflict. But it brought me great peace while I was on it. I think I might go refill my prescription and finally get some relief.

[~Nova~]

Whenever I see a girl, I want, not to have sex with her, but to be her, to have her body and clothes.

I have been saying that for at least 30 years. It's in my signature line as Nova.

I'm not sure how to satisfy this intense internal desire to be female.

I can't tell you what you are, but I can tell you when I read something like that I see transsexual. I'm certainly not an expert. I'm not even one of the TS's that have been living it for a very long time, but I am a realist. I call a spade a spade. I see red as red. No shades of bologna in between.

Those two sentences quoted above are your words. I quoted them from your post. If you have doubt or question as to which way you should go, read them again.

Is transition hard? OMG yes, it's very hard. Is living in endless mental turmoil any easier? No, it's harder.

I didn't find an inner peace when I took my first estrogen. The world wasn't brighter and the hurt inside didn't just float away. As a matter of fact I attempted suicide twice after I started. Am I proud of it, no, but it's fact, it's real and I'm a realist.

It doesn't matter what you see in the mirror because you can change what you see just by thinking about it. A vision is just a vision, an illusion. What really matters is what is brewing inside your heart. Right now you are confused as to what that is. Fine. You don't have to rush into hormones to find yourself. You don't even have to decide one way or the other. What you do have to do is stop fighting yourself. Stop trying to make a decision that you know you aren't ready to make.

A wise person once told me:

Slow is steady, steady is fast. Ever try and get your keys into the lock fast, you can't do it, but if you slowed down, found the right key and put it in the lock, you would be inside already. Slow is steady, steady is fast.

I hope you can find yourself, I hope you can make a decision you can live with, but in the meantime, just enjoy the realization that you don't have to decide today. In the meantime learn to put on makeup. Get some clothes. Practice walking in heels. Practice putting on lipstick. Hint, it goes on the LIPS...

Best of luck my confused friend.

[VickySGV]

OK, you have AGP. I'll accept the diagnosis of a self made expert for themselves! Congratulations, you have convinced me of your legitimacy. Most men DO daydream and imagine various erotic and exotic things as a prelude to Self G. Some go so far as to actually endanger their lives or safety in the fantasies they require. Unless you go for a fantasy with potential self harm or harm to others there is nothing wrong with the Self G, other than the fact it is lonely. Oh sure, too much of it and you catch heck from the folks for not taking out the trash on your scheduled day, or you leave dirty laundry around the house with a distinctive mess on it. (Hardwood floors are worst if not cleaned properly and quickly.) AGP is a fantasy issue which was Blanchard and Bailey's whole thesis. There are places on the Net here that have sites for people with just that fantasy, which will take a small edge off the loneliness, they mostly cost money however, but the users consider them worth the price. They have a wonderful time talking to each other about it, which is a huge percentage of what the fantasy is. Its almost more fun to talk about than it is to do. Its even more fun to pull someones bell cord on the subject.

I am not a "victim" of AGP so certainly I am not going to do anything other than tell you you are right about your decision of what it is for you. Get the dishes done at home, and the laundry and whatever school work or job work you need to and then lock the bedroom door, or the cellar, or barn, or whatever, and relax for the satisfaction and stress relief it will bring you. Enjoy!

[Guest Amanda Whyte]

jdinatale, I am so new to this I have no idea what is "real" and what is not. If that is the way you feel, it is the way you feel. I can even understand it to a great part. That being said, I still think you should find a more knowledgable therapist. Reading the DSM line for line and checking boxes does not sound right to me. The person should be knowledgeable enough with that part of the DSM to know and help you understand where you fall within the whole spectrum.

[Guest Lacey Lynne]

I have read your posts now for a while, this all seems circular and quite a tale indeed.

You want relief from these self described problems, then take your estrogen and pray, you'll feel better honey. Just think in a few short weeks, you could have clarity of thought, and when you see a pretty girl, you can truely appreicate her and what god has done. God created female and all their beauty, you can be her and be happy, is this not what you want ? God loves you no matter what, and god will answer you. Don't let others define you. Be yourself, carve your own path in life, listen to your heart, the answers lie there not in some diagnostic book or with church provided therapists. It takes real courage to face this condition, denial will only lead to emptyness, and as Leah says above, it will never go away.

Take care

Cindy -

Well, I was going to stay out of this one; however, Cindy rocked this thread, and I'm here to WAY agree with Cindy. Trust her wise words. She knows whereof she speaks, IMHO.

Peace Lacey

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Nothing you write seems to make any sense to me. Sorry, maybe I am just stupid.

Lizzie

[Guest Maria_B]

Lizzie, I like to give people the BOTD, but I'm getting to the point you're at.

Last thing I want to do is alienate someone on a support site, but if you actually believe about AGP and you and HSTS (I won't even START on that) and can verify with me its not just your involvement in a particularly venemous Mormon community (Some are great, don't get me wrong, the local groups here are all really friendly and nice to everyone including open LGBT people) then by all means, llock your bedroom door, have your fantasies, live like you want. No one gets hurt by that. Except maybe the person who does the Laundry.

Go join a site like Vicky suggested. Some of your friends at the AGP place you said you went to might know something. Heck, they'd also be a place to rebound off of.

All I ask is you be completely honest with yourself, if no one else. Ignore what Mum is doing, ignore what your community is saying, hey even ignore the rest of what I said, just listen to yourself and be completely honest. There is no right or wrong answer unless you are lieing to yourself. AGP, TS, Man, Purlple Bologna Sandwich, just be honest.

[Guest Madison_Always]

Jdinatale,

I think as humans we like to try and put things in nice little boxes. He is a man. She is a woman. Even in the trans community it is easier to have a nice box to put others or even ourselves in. There isn't one correct answer here for you. But I urge you to get in touch with a gender therapist and explain to him or her all of your feelings. He or she will be able to help you sort out your feelings. But in the end, it is up to you to decide what you need to do to live a satisfying and fulfilling life. I hope we have been of some help. Good luck.

Madison

[Guest Megan_Lynn]

{Quote

Autogynephilic transsexuals (AGPs) transition to satisfy an intense internal urge to be the opposite gender. This urge is sometimes described as a paraphilia, a fetish, or an inverted heterosexual drive where they, attracted to women and want to become the objects of their desire. They are attracted to the female physical form, so their core sexuality is heterosexual (as men), but since their preferred object of desire is not another person but themselves, they have a very atypical and complicated sexuality. They often find it confusing, and mysterious, and while they are in the vast majority of cases originally attracted to women, their perceived sexual orientation may shift. They are not physically attracted to men but may be interested in men for other reasons, to complete their autogynephilic fantasy of themselves as a woman. Autogynephilic transsexuals are etiologically similar to transvestites. They tend to view becoming a woman as a life goal in and of itself, one they are willing to abandon important features of their life such as a wife or children, job, and being seen as a normal person in order to accomplish.

Behaviorally as men, they tend to be averagely masculine, straight acting heterosexuals. They can potentially transition at any age though most transition as adults. Unlike hsts who are never very successful socially as males, agps often marry as men, have biological children with their wives, and lead successful lives as men before they transition. Physically they are averagely male in appearance until transition, and rarely pass in a truly convincing way as women, which is not nearly as distressing for them as it would be to a hsts because their reasons for transitioning do not depend on how well they are going to be socially adjusted after they are finished. AGPs typically start out as heterosexual, gender normative, socially acceptable men and end up as homosexual (lesbian) or bisexual, gender variant, less than socially acceptable women, but given the specifics of their disorder, they are often still happier as female than male despite being less well off by most objective measures.}

I can tell you the reason so many do not belive in AGP's and that would be because it basicaly says that only mtf's that like guys are true transsexuals. This is a total load of BS.This suposed AGP diginosis could discribe me almost to a T. Sexuality be it straight, gay , bi ,lesbian has zero to do with being a true transsexual. Would you ever hear someone say a woman was not a real woman cause she was alesbian or a man was not a man cause he was gay? Since this is not done why would you even except this being done with a trasn person? Sorry you had this twisted theory pounded into your head for so long that you belive it. I knew since I was 3 years old I was truely female inside but was to scard to say anything about it. So I lived my life got married joined the army had 3 kids . everything a guy is supposed to do cause it was expected of me. This did not make me any less female in my core. I was 27 years old when I finaly found out what being transsexual realy was and waited till was 36 to start slowly down my path to be the real me. Almost all of old hobbys were considered male from my love of football to my love of fishing and hunting. I did not do anything considered female ever , main reason being lord forbid I would violate the man code. When I finaly started to except myself and go down my path I learned a whole lot more about myself then I ever knew there was. While I still enjoy many of my old male hobbys and likes I now have so many atypical female ones as well. For the first time in my life I was able to accualy find out what all I did realy like cause was no longer under the man code anymore. As far as it being a sexual thing I personaly belive what it accauly is in your case.you have detest over your body and it manifests into your sexual desires to be seen as female for sex things..If you did not have any detest in your body then why would your sexual desires only involve seeing yourself as female? Think about that one a good bit. Myself when I was a teenager and was going through male puberty there was many a time that I self gratified and it was always seeing myself as female. This is because my male body discusted me and not because of some fetish. I had always been attarcated to females because of wanting to be one and be with one as well. When I was younger I had a few thoughts of being with men but since it was considered gay and taboo I pushed them thoughts and feelings away.Since I have been on Hrt I am mostly at peace with myself as I am finaly me for once. the awfull testostrone is not influencing me anymore. Down this path I have been able to examin my sexuality by asking myself what was realy true. While I still am very atracted to woman I also do have a strong attarcation to some men as well. This in itself was very hard for me to except at first but mostly cause I was still hanging on to the old male thought pattern I was so used to having to hide the real me.once I let myself be me I learned who and what I was. You need to look inside you and stop listening to what others think you may be. There is not just 2 types of transsexual woman out there as there are litteraly hundreds of thousands of different ones as there are average ci gendered people. I have know many woman who are very comfy in there skin but walk talk and act like men big time but still love being female. do not let bs sterotypical crap keep you from being you. Some trans people are ok to just dress now and again , some are ok to slowly transition and some will transistion and still keep there male parts down below while others will get rid of every last male bit. As a man Nobody ever would have though I was female( except my high voice). Now three years on hrt I can not present as a man if I tried. I personaly belive the whole reason behind the bs AGP thing is to keep the ones who still enjoy woman continue to keep them from transistioning. Many here have told you what they feel about this. I will give you my personal opion and that is I do feel you have a girl inside you and that as long as you continue to keep her caged up you will suffer over it. If people are against you trying to find yourself then its them that are wrong not you. Only a selfish person that only cared about how someone may look at them would hold there child,friend, ect back from being themselfs. Oh one last thing did ya ever think the reason you see yourself as female when self gratifying is cause you acauly are???? Stop lieing to yourself be who you realy are. Men that are truely men and what to be men fantisize about stuff like having three somes with 2 girls . they do not fantisize about being a woman ever....Oh if a transwoman is basiacal a woman wioth a man that would make her staright so the homosexual thing is total bs..Palin and simple homosexual is man with man or woamn woth woman only..it is not transwoman with man as that is being straight. and a trasnwoman with a woman is being lesbian.

[Guest ~Brenda~]

I'm not sure how to satisfy this intense internal desire to be female. Does anyone know of my options? I've been throwing around some ideas. What if I refilled my HRT prescription, went back on it, but presented myself as male and went about my life as a man?

Gosh dear you do have some confusing thoughts that need to be addressed. It appears that your sexuality is completely tied up with your gender identity. This needs to be untwined. Your sexuality is something completely different from your gender identity. I personally don't think that HRT is appropriate for you now, at your level of confusion. You are very young and your natural testosterone hormones are raging. Of course, you naturally feel sexually attracted to females. That is nature. Nature wants you to procreate. At this point in your experience you are naturally responding as a male. There is nothing wrong with that.

Additionally, your identification as female is nothing to be ignored, but please understand that sexual gratification with fantasizing as female is not the same as knowing that you are female.

I give you this to try. Wear the sexiest panties that you can find and attire on yourself and see how you feel. If you feel sexually arroused, that is quite natural, but wear them again. How do you feel now? Wear them again. How do you feel now?

There will come a time when the excitement wears away and only the truth remains. Either those clothes are yours or they are not yours. In time you will know. In time, this will all be clear to you.

Brenda

[Guest Mia J]

I would like to remind the members to not get too personal in the discussion to the point of things starting to turn into what may seem like an attack on someone. This has become a hot topic as most here don't believe in the AGP theory. That is not saying we can not talk about it. But we do need to respectful of each other even if we disagree.

Mia