A Question That I Have Never Been Able To Answer

[Sally]

Sally,

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you say you don't understand, you have no tolerance for these people. Yet, if you look inward, the source of your "rant" stems from the same place... Jesus would have understood...

-Meri

And that is what makes me imperfect and causes me to beunhappy with my mistakes.

Love ya,

Sally

[Charlize]

I think thats why we continue to try to improve ourselves and to better realize our connection to our spiritual nature. If we realize our imperfection we are able to leave more up to something greater than ourselves. We are all imperfect or maybe perfect in that. Does that make sense? i think so. We have to forgive them(us) they know not what they do.

Its a striving for understanding, the path that takes us to the gates of heaven.

Hugs, Charlie

[Guest Jaques]

I myself am not religious and don't believe in any of that stuff.

But if Christianity were real and the teachings were real, I definitely believe what you just stated would be what Jesus and God intended for us to live by. The idea of an all loving God and Jesus actually condoning behavior some of the things the fundamentalists and bible thumpers have said and conducted kind of seems counterproductive to what the message of Christianity is.

..............i feel that as human beings we are basically good - in our hearts we know whats right - but the mind gets in the way, we can twist and turn anything around to suit our own needs and desires and lose track of where we started out.

I also feel that most religions, from what i have learnt, are based on compassion but again when we are coming from a place of self interest, we become myopic, - its very simple, in principle, to lead a life which produces good results but in practice not always easy.

An example of the true nature of a human being is -- an old lady falls down in the street and is hurt - our immediate instinct is to rush over and help her - most people would do that - its how we really are and i dont think religion has anything to do with that - i feel those who need to push their thoughts and beliefs onto others, well some just want others to "benefit" from the life they see as right and beneficial to all sometimes to the point of hate and violence. They dont see that people need to learn what ever is right for them in their own time and by their own experiences.

[Guest esther22]

You should read the book called:" how to be a christian without being religious". We are never to judge the person, but we can look to see if their actions are against God's will (which is sin). however the bible also says that unbelief is a sin. And everyone sins, so the main thing is if we ask for forgiveness & believe that Christ's blood takes away our sin. Esther22

[Guest KimberlyF]

Many people in this country are Christian the same way many people in this country are on a diet. With the same dedication and results.

[Guest ~Sara~]

it comes from fanatics, not from the bible, i myself do not believe in religion, but i believe in god, and even though i do not share much with Jehova's witnesses, i find their bible's translation to be very accurate, so i am quoting one part of it here :

1 Samuel 16:7

"But Jehovah said to Samuel: “Do not look at his appearance and at the height of his stature, for I have rejected him. For not the way man sees [is the way God sees], because mere man sees what appears to the eyes; but as for Jehovah, he sees what the heart is."

and as this, there are other texts that makes me see how good god is, and how religion has damaged the idea making god looks like a judgemental being.

Note: i am using the christian god, and that is the god i believe in, but in absolutely no way i think less of other people beliefs, or religion, we find what suits us the best and i am no one to tell anyone that they should believe the same things that i do ( this note serves as some kind of disclaimer in case you may think i am all narrow minded about religion or anything as some people have said when i mention my beliefs, because all i do is that, mention my beliefs, nothing else)

Sara.

[VickySGV]

I am a practicing and believing Christian, and yet I see things very much as you do Sara. To me, God is fully spirit and is to be understood in that sense and does not reason in human terms. My spirit but not necessarily my body, is what is created in God's image, and my spirit can embrace all of my fellow humans. Thus to me when the Bible speaks in terms of bodily human behavior, it is to be a reflection of the person's spirit. Many of the prohibitions on human behavior that are used against us, were meant to counter religious practices of the time they were written about that demanded these bahaviors as worship for other dieties. They were not the day to day behaviors that were deemed to be unholy for the Jews, only the ones that demanded actions not in line with a person's spirit of love and honor for their diety.

[Guest Jaques]

on the subject of "sin" - i dont feel it exists, only actions which either produce good or not so good results - and i also feel that no one can forgive us for hurting others but those who we hurt - and of course ourselves - in any case, we will experience the karma that results............

[Guest Jay Smooth]

Well Im a christian and sin does exist and hell and heaven is real, As well as us being in the end times, Know I agree that people should not judge because he who is without sin cast the first stone, But Fornication,Adultery,Lying,Killing,Rape,and etc is a sin, And yes the bible does state being gay is wrong and is an abomination although I personally see nothing wrong with it, The bible is silent on transgenders

[Guest Jaques]

2

"Well Im a christian and sin does exist and hell and heaven is real" -

i said that i don't "feel" sin exists - im not dogmatic about it...........in fact im always open to others views. My view, to date, on the bible is that it was written by men hundreds of years after jesus died, some content is likely to be true, but it has been altered so many times, its difficult to tell fact from fiction, but i feel if it serves as a guide to people, who believe the contents word for word and they find it helpful in their lives, then that can only be a good thing, so long as they dont use it as a weapon to control and manipulate others. As for lying, killing, rape etc - i dont feel people need a book to tell them that isnt a good way to behave and can only bring bad results..............we know it instinctively

Edited August 14, 2013 by VickySGV
clarified quote response.

[Guest DianeATL]

Religion is always a lightning rod for passionate responses and that is OK, you should be passionate about it. I think Penn Gillette in his book "God No" put it well regarding evangelism. Even though he is an atheist he said if he were standing in the middle of a train track and you believed that a train was heading his way, you should hit him over the head with a 2x4 to try to get him to move and he respected that even though he does not share the beliefs.

For me the fundamentals of Christianity are sound but the organized churches get off message and tend to screw it up. I think that came to a head for me when my sister with a religion degree with languages, and a seminary degree was told that she could never be a full minister because she had the wrong set of chromosomes. You can imagine how that really sets of someone who is a TG.

I believe that it is a very personal belief system that can be shared or debated, but at the end of the day you make peace with your view of the higher being/spirit/God in a way that works for you.

[Guest Bellexia]

My take on it would be, they know that Jesus gave up a loophole, free forgiveness upon death. They figure they can just say "lolsorry" when the time comes. So instead of trying, they feel they can go about it half hearted and repent just in case. Most are just christian in name only, as were billions over the millennia. Murdering and slaughtering in the name of god. Sickening, but I quite respect the ones who are Christ like. My mom is stuck in her ways and it makes me giggle how she and my brother who claims agnosticism act when they hear about my beliefs. However she just tells me to pray, I don't and I just move on. I realize how much her faith means to her and I just take the ol' Jesus rule 101, turn the other cheek. I couldn't bear to see her lose her faith, it would devastate her. Back on topic, the good Christ like Christians are bloody amazing sometimes. It's the others that are the issue, karma comes back hard, as is the case where the family set sail and got lost in the pacific because of their anti-gay views. Reminds me of the old joke, with the punchline being god tells the man he sent 2 boats and a helicopter.

[Guest Jaques]

am not sure that a family with anti gay issues would be lost at sea because of this - one of my neighbours, whos a lovely christian lady with no such issues was attacked on their boat by pirates in the seas around Thailand, her husband murdered and thrown overboard............... I think sometimes people are just in the wrong place at the wrong time - they were warned not to sail through those waters and the dangers.

My missus is mixed race and was getting abuse from a guy who was very racist, in a bar...............she told me that by the end of the evening, his views had changed and he bought her a drink - people don't always have to have such drastic things happen to them to alter their mind set

[Guest Bellexia]

Yeah it happened, just google it, it was a recent news article. They left the states because of all the advances in gay rights, got lost at sea and were rescued by a freighter.

[Guest Bellexia]

Oh and fun fact, I was called a freak with crazy views last night by my mom after she laid into me some more about my religious beliefs. As if it's so much weirder to believe in a sky daddy who will send you to hell than what I believe. It made me so mad because I have been completely calm about it, I never once told her that her beliefs were silly but she keeps telling me I am on the devil's side and it just hurts that she would call me that among a few other things just because I don't believe her ways....

[VickySGV]

The "WHY" that "bad" things happen to otherwise good or maybe just OK people has been a subject of speculation since our earliest written histories have been available. Why there was drought in one year, and flood in another, and good crops for a span of years, why one group of Chosen People kicked the tar out of a group of "bad" people one time, and got their donkey's slaughtered by the next group of bad people, and on and on, has usually resulted in a force outside themselves being blamed, honored, or just simply given credit for. There were probably some darn good reasons, but people had no idea about weather patterns, and those who did not adapt to new fanny kicking technology and tactics because of conceit, well, were too humanly conceited and thus whupped around a bit, but the conceit kept them from seeing it and thus a diety had to have done it to 'em.

Thus, since you are the "chosen" favorite of your diety it was some other person who ticked off the subject of your religious life, never could have been your foul up!! How anyone that lives in Arizona would have the faintest notion of deep sea navigation though is a mystery to me. Gilligans Island comes to mind.

[Guest kai-rock]

Hey Sally,

Me personally I am an atheist, I have a very conservative Christian family and they are what you would call "bible thumpers" or fundamentalist. They don't recognize transgender as anything different then gay (probably never heard the word transgender before in there lives) I honestly don't even know where transgender fits in the bible or if it's even there, but I can tell you that Jesus never said anything against homosexuality in the bible. Hope this helps.

Stay awesome,

Kai

[Guest Razilee]

I am saddened to read that so many have been driven away from the Church and even God because of unchristian Chritian. I do not know what I would have done without my faith, faith in a God Who really understands me and is always there to help. I likely would have attempted suicide more often and finally "succeeded". I have also have found comfort in the lives of the saints like Joan of Arc who was burned at the stake -- by "Christians" -- for crossdressing. Jesus has always and will always accept me as I am and yet is continuingly guiding to the that day when I will be His bride in a glorious new body!

[Guest alissa16]

Its possible to look back throughout Jewish history to find where individuals and groups of/sects lived

apart from that of their society. If felt that who you once thought believed as did you..but; proved themselves

otherwise..And possibly caused you or others hurt..

It is easy to understand the why and is daily manifested by professing christians.

[Guest alissa16]

Have a current example of a loving and God fearing family currently on display on another tg site. The parents of a tg

are going through a case of biblical meltdown..You know the; how could you bring such shame upon us, and you

are sinning in the eyes of the Lord..Yep some of our finest examples of christianity on display for all.

What kinda wisdoms and truths are given out by the pulprit and bible television channels..when this is such a common occurrence?

The young woman is at this time alone and afraid..Out on the street. Afraid of reparitive counseling and overbearing

moral righteousness from a church and community that claims to represent love and devotion to higher purposes.

Church leadership is absent and non existant as long as such blatent mis-use of God name and love are so commonly

in evidence for all to see.

[VickySGV]

These rejecting "branches" of Christianity are not the ONLY ones out there. I belong to one of the ACCEPTING Christian denominations where I am fully out and open and loved. No negative theology is shoved in my face, I have not been refused Holy Communion or Blessing at the altar rail, instead I hold lay ministry and lay leadership positions in my parish church, and membership in LGBT ministries of my regional and national church. I have IRL Trans* friends who are Ordained clergy in this church. This is a denomination that has been in the U.S. since its founding and even played a significant role in the establishment of U.S. independence and has several million members today even though it is seeing a decline in membership in some areas.

The moral of this post is that there are religious organizations available to us who will accept us and nourish our spiritual journeys in the Christian Faith or even give us just provide a house to come into and quietly "Worship the Lord in the beauty of Holiness" in our own way. .

[Guest alissa16]

Yes thank you Vicky and you have reopened my eyes to the fact that there are indeed loving and accepting

church communities around but, sadley are only a small representation of what is a fellowship of God's

love.

I do pray that there will be a rapid reversal..Those that pervert the meaning of christanity find a rapid decline

and out of favor with their cash flow resources that have given them their clout and political powers.

[Guest Mickey]

This pic shows the genders in Bible times. Known, recognized, and accepted genders in Biblical Israel.

[Charlize]

That is quite interesting Carla. Thanks for sharing.

Hugs,

Charlize

[Guest Razilee]

Like the poor it seems the Pharisees will always be with us, the one who believe themselves to be in a position to judge others without realizing that they will be judged for judging others, who impose burdens on others but do nothing to help them carry them. Those who call themselves Christians and yet doot live like Christ lived, Who died for us while we were yet sinners, are the hardest enemies to love, but as I Christian that is what I am called to do.

Love,

Raz