Dating

[Guest Emily1]

My girlfriend (Fia, 16 and I'm 17) is totally ok with my being TS, and thinks its great that I'm finally being more honest with myself, but her old, Greek Orthodox Christian parents have a bit of a problem with it. Her dad decided that we have to break up, but her mom (who is generally submissive) decided that, since her daughter is so clearly more happy when she is around me, she should be allowed to continue dating me. In order to please Fia's dad, we have to pretend like we are not dating (and don't even hang out) when he's around. Anyways, Tuesday is our 2 year anniversary, and we are planning on going to see a movie after school. The weird thing is, her mom has decided that she would like to drop Fia off at the theater rather than at my house because she doesn't want to seem openly ok with us dating........... Even though letting us see a movie conveys essentially the same message........? Also, I was hoping to go to the movie as a girl (and even got a long sweater, pants, and shoes to wear), and when we asked Fia's mom if I could (my parents said I had to), she said that someone might see us... Here are the possibilities:

1. The person knows neither of us, in which case, they don't care at all.
   
2. The person knows only me, in which case, it's essentially the same thing as them seeing me out dressed (which I have already done, so clearly I don't care about this.
   
3. The person knows only Fia, in which case, we can say we are just two girls going to a movie, which isn't too uncommon
   
4. The person goes to our school and knows both of us, in which case, they already know that we are still dating and that i "crossdress," so this is no new information.
   
5. The person is her "aunt" (in spirit), who never goes to see any movies, and would of course immediately jump to the conclusion that I'm TS
   

We suggested that if for some ridiculous reason we run into her "aunt," we can just say that it was a dare or something equally random, but much more probable than me being TS. Her mom insisted that even though this is much more believable than transsexuality, her "aunt" would never believe it.

Anyways, does anyone have any tips on how to deal with people like this (or any suggestions on what i could do about Tuesday)?

Thanks,

Emily

[Guest Dutchie]

Hi Emily,

This isn't an easy situation and there is in my opinion no easy solution either. A friend of mine is Greek and Orthodox Christian as well, like the rest of her family, so I know a little about that side of things. My experience is that the church members can be fanatic, but the general attitude is more relaxed.

Anyway, I only refer to it since you mentioned later the "aunt" part, which I think most people didn't get.

Basically Fia's father doesn't like his daughter being in a non-standard relationship, that is not strange in itself, fathers can be oh so protective about their "little" girls! Essentially I'm picking up that Fia's parents both know about cross-dressing, but only the mother about being TS?

You mentioned Fia's mother doesn't want to drive Fia to your place because she doesn't want look to openly "ok" with it. In a way I can understand her way of thinking, it's more the part where the two of you are out on the street together, rather than in a "closed" cinema (where it is dark for most of the time anyway). You sort of confirmed that when you wrote that she is afraid someone might see the two of you together. (I'm not saying that Fia's mother is right, she isn't!)

You basically eliminated all the probable possibilities, the remaining one is the one with the "aunt". Knowing how supersticious people can be and the fact that the both of you are "minors" (I think), I'm affraid there is no real option out of this. You can only conform with the wishes/demands of your and Fia's parents.

The good thing is that you seem to have an open conversation with Fia's mother, this might not help you right now, but it might help you in the future. It's hard enough to get people to understand in the first place. Try to find out what might be believable for her "aunt".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do have the impression the "aunt" is just a method of preventing you to be yourself with Fia? In a way that her mother seems ok, but shoves the "aunt" forward to bring the bad news.

Sorry that I can not be of any valuable help. I do hope that the two of you have a great anniversary tomorrow (Tuesday), congratulations up ahead.

[Guest Emily1]

The good thing is that you seem to have an open conversation with Fia's mother

Just so you know, I have not spoken any more than "goodby" or "see you later" to her when I see Fia off from school. It is only through Fia that I know at all what her mother wants.

[Sally]

I know how much you would like to spend this anniversary as a girl, believe me I know! But I would be very careful right now - obviously you and Fia mean a great deal to each other so try not to antagonize either set of parents.

The "aunt" might see you is an indication that she might have something in the way of a plan to be sure that you don't slip out of a pair of baggy jeans and wear a skirt once inside. There may be someone there that does know you both - I'm not trying to make you paranoid, but people do very odd things when the are 'protecting' thier child.

You are only a year away from the 'magic number' and she is only two years. That may seem like forever, but it is time to help all of the parents see that it isn't as horrible as they first thought and if they never do - you won't have caused a major rift in Fia's family (which could only hurt you and Fia).

As for what to do on Tuesday - put on your favorite undergarments (doesn't that sound polite) and go to the movie and enjoy your time with Fia. There will be plenty of time on Wednesday to worry about when and where to dress.

Wish I had a better answer, but do enjoy your friend, she is special and deserves to have a great anniversary, there will be other times when the two of you can go out as 2 girls (just not tomorrow) be patient.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Yikes - I am married and don't worry about dating so I may not be much help - BUT:

Being nosey and always opinionated let me throw out some ideas.

I HATE not being able to express myself as I want in public. I want to dress in what I feel are gender approiate clothes for me (female of course) but it seems there are times it can't be done. But I try to be smart about the whole thing.

So I wear SOME clothing but not full girlie-girl. It works for me because I am older - I guess. I have on my shoes but they are penny loafers and not heels. I have on my trouser socks, and underwear, but keep modest. I have on my earrings, but the smaller studs rather than danglies. And my makeup is given a day-off. I am simply a woman dressed very casually in top and jeans. Nobody pays me any attention.

And I feel better.

I save my super feminine presentation for safer times.

Does that help?

[Guest sophula3]

The "aunt" might see you is an indication that she might have something in the way of a plan to be sure that you don't slip out of a pair of baggy jeans and wear a skirt once inside. There may be someone there that does know you both - I'm not trying to make you paranoid, but people do very odd things when the are 'protecting' thier child.

Hey, this is Fia. Just wanting to let you know that mom's main reason for not letting Emily dress on our date is that someone might see her and immediately jump to the conclusion that I'm a lesbian out on a date with a girl (yeah, both my parents are homophobic, and transphobic ...but at least mom's trying).

Also, mom's completely panicked about what people would think if they knew that she was permitting me to "ruin my life" by dating a girl. So, she'd be too scared that my aunt in spirit would see me on a date with a girl (and proceed to tell the whole community and bring our family to ruin...mom's just paranoid about reputation) to even think of sending someone over to spy on us and make sure that Emily's "behaving".

Sally, thanks so much for your comment. Thanks to everyone else, too, for all their comments. Makes me feel a bit better.

[Guest Emily.SoCal]

Hey Emily (nice name!),

This all sounds very familiar. I noticed the state flag on your profile, Fia's Greek heritage, and the conservative reaction and I'm wondering if you're from Cincinnati like I am. It is so frustrating growing up in that part of the country. I was far too scared to explore my femininity and voice my concerns that something wasn't right and it's taken me 13 slow years and a move to California to come out of my shell.

You on the other hand aren't even 18 and you're not wearing a mask, you're just being yourself. I'm really impressed. You should be *really* proud. Don't let anyone take that away from you either.

On the other hand, you don't have the luxury of relocation or something like that, so I highly recommend tolerating Fia's parents until you two are adults. They can and will ruin your and Fia's relationship (or make a heck of a try) if they really want to. So, while I think it's terrible for you to not be able to go out for your anniversary as yourself, you really need to be careful here and weigh the repercussions. It seems unfair -- and is in this case -- but parents are always going to have the advantage over their children and their word is always the final word.

Whatever happens, Happy Anniversary to you and Fia! I hope it's a good one.

-Emily

[Guest sophula3]

Hey Emily (nice name!),

This all sounds very familiar. I noticed the state flag on your profile, Fia's Greek heritage, and the conservative reaction and I'm wondering if you're from Cincinnati like I am. It is so frustrating growing up in that part of the country. I was far too scared to explore my femininity and voice my concerns that something wasn't right and it's taken me 13 slow years and a move to California to come out of my shell.

You on the other hand aren't even 18 and you're not wearing a mask, you're just being yourself. I'm really impressed. You should be *really* proud. Don't let anyone take that away from you either.

On the other hand, you don't have the luxury of relocation or something like that, so I highly recommend tolerating Fia's parents until you two are adults. They can and will ruin your anyd Fia's relationship (or make a heck of a try) if they really want to. So, while I think it's terrible for you to not be able to go out for your anniversary as yourself, you really need to be careful here and weigh the repercussions. It seems unfair -- and is in this case -- but parents are always going to have the advantage over their children and their word is always the final word.

Whatever happens, Happy Anniversary to you and Fia! I hope it's a good one.

-Emily

Oh, that's interesting. Your name also happens to sound very familiar!

Yeah, I'm really really proud of her, too. I know that if I'd been in her situation (or one that was similar), I would have lived with the denial until the end of an unhappy life, either by my own hands or through chance. A bit morbid, I know; but I haven't encountered anything that could be so painful as having to live a lie of this nature and magnitude. Thankfully, in this day and age, steps can be taken to remedy such situations! And Emily's parents are taking this much, much, much better than mine.

So, I'm really happy with how things are going for her (and that she trusted me enough to tell me about her being a girl...but that's more of a selfish hapiness )!

As for how the anniversary went, I think it went quite well, besides the telling my dad that I was going to see a movie with a group part...but that's been a necessity for some time now, so...yeah. Two whole years!! *jumps around*

Thanks again for the well wishes, Emily.

[Guest Emily1]

We live in Dayton (about an hour north) if you care.

The main reason I was able to totally drop any mask is the amazing environment I grew up in. My family has always been very accepting. My grandfather (doubt you've ever heard of him, but if you have, Reverent Robert Graetz) was a reasonably major part in the civil rights movement in Montgomery, Alabama. He brought my dad up teaching him that it is ok to be different, and my dad brought me up this way too Also, my dad works at a tiny private school, so I get to go there for free (took him 10 years, but it is soooooo worth it). There are less than 50 students in each graduating class, so we are all very close - and accepting of just about anything. Since 9th grade, I have really been growing my hair out, and I also most weeks paint my nails. I recently came out to our school's Gay Straight Alliance, and told them they should feel free to tell anyone they want to. I recently talked to my advisor, and she said that word has actually been spreading - I hadn't noticed cause nobody wants to talk to me about this. The one thing that showed me that our school has a gossip network is when Fia and I got together, within a couple days, I had gotten probably about 20 comments about it - even though I asked her out in private! Anyways, not sure where I'm going with this, but I gotta say, I love where I grew up

[Guest Emily.SoCal]

We live in Dayton (about an hour north) if you care.

The main reason I was able to totally drop any mask is the amazing environment I grew up in. My family has always been very accepting. My grandfather (doubt you've ever heard of him, but if you have, Reverent Robert Graetz) was a reasonably major part in the civil rights movement in Montgomery, Alabama. He brought my dad up teaching him that it is ok to be different, and my dad brought me up this way too Also, my dad works at a tiny private school, so I get to go there for free (took him 10 years, but it is soooooo worth it). There are less than 50 students in each graduating class, so we are all very close - and accepting of just about anything. Since 9th grade, I have really been growing my hair out, and I also most weeks paint my nails. I recently came out to our school's Gay Straight Alliance, and told them they should feel free to tell anyone they want to. I recently talked to my advisor, and she said that word has actually been spreading - I hadn't noticed cause nobody wants to talk to me about this. The one thing that showed me that our school has a gossip network is when Fia and I got together, within a couple days, I had gotten probably about 20 comments about it - even though I asked her out in private! Anyways, not sure where I'm going with this, but I gotta say, I love where I grew up

Sure, I spent plenty of time in Dayton. In fact, I fly in through there every time I come home. Which is not often I'm sorry to say. You're experience is the polar opposite of mine. The Cincinnati area was difficult -- my family and so many families are ultraconservative traditionalists. I once got into trouble in Butler County and they tried to send me to county jail -- *men's* county -- for a month on trumped up charges basically because I was a transgender bisexual. My father was a lawyer and didn't do much to help. Even in the end I barely got the charges dropped. That happened in 2000 and I spent everyday trying to leave up until early 2007.

This is all so negative, but hearing your story -- and how much you appreciate your family and situation -- helps me more than you might think because it's a reminder that quite a few good people and good places exist in the place I spent the first 29 years of my life. Good luck, Emily!

-Emily

[Guest Emily1]

Good luck, Emily!

-Emily

Kinda pointless post, but i gotta say, that sounds hilarious