That's a go for facial hair...

[KieranD]

Yo. So, I've been holding off on shaving. I last shaved my whole face about 2 months ago (WOW!) and shaved my chin/neck and mustache area as well as the weird random hairs I shaved maybe a week or two ago. I still get seen as a woman even with this facial hair. Any ideas as to what I can do to change this or is it more waiting (I'm still tired of waiting)?

Things not to bring up: my hormone levels, questioning my dosage or suggesting I lose weight/work out.

NOW IS TIME FOR PICTURES!

This one is linked because it's very large.

Am I good in the face area?

[Guest ~Brenda~]

To me,

Your voice and your look is all male. I see nothing feminine about you at all. What is there to change? You are doing just fine to me.

Brenda

[KieranD]

To me,

Your voice and your look is all male. I see nothing feminine about you at all. What is there to change? You are doing just fine to me.

Brenda

I'm getting misgendered more than half of the time.

[Guest Maria_B]

An important thing to remember is many natal males take years to develop any significant facial hair (sometimes, not until their 20's). So if you're waiting for more facial hair, it is a process of time.

That being said, your look is male, your face is male, your voice airs on the male side. I'm not sure how to help.

[KieranD]

An important thing to remember is many natal males take years to develop any significant facial hair (sometimes, not until their 20's). So if you're waiting for more facial hair, it is a process of time.

That being said, your look is male, your face is male, your voice airs on the male side. I'm not sure how to help.

I understand but my thing is...I have it, I think it looks like male patterned facial hair. I don't really get it.

(but grrr on the phrase "natal males")

[Guest Maria_B]

Yeah, I don't like any of the phrases, but how the heck of it are we supposed to describe any of it then? People dislike Cis, people argue when you just say Males, it's a no-win no-win situation.

[KieranD]

Yeah, I don't like any of the phrases, but how the heck of it are we supposed to describe any of it then? People dislike Cis, people argue when you just say Males, it's a no-win no-win situation.

I like cis. Cis is the compliment of trans. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

[Guest DanD]

Your face looks perfectly fine, the bit of facial hair is exactly the way a teenage boy is, some guys dont get much facial hair till theyre much older too, you know. so. i think its fine.

You have really nice facial features too. You're very lucky.

I really dont know why they're reading you wrong.

[KieranD]

Your face looks perfectly fine, the bit of facial hair is exactly the way a teenage boy is, some guys dont get much facial hair till theyre much older too, you know. so. i think its fine.

You have really nice facial features too. You're very lucky.

I really dont know why they're reading you wrong.

Thanks. I've actually been out for 8 years, on T for 2. I just recently (a week or so ago) started getting read as male more often but it's not very often.

From the front.

[Guest Izzybell]

That's actually a much fuller sideburn than I've ever been able to grow. (I tried to grow my facial hair before I came out. It was not pretty. XD) And I saw the thread on your voice and you honestly sound male to me. I think eyebrows might look too feminine, though I'm not really sure how to change that. But I would say you look and sound male in my honest opinion.

-Isabella

[KieranD]

That's actually a much fuller sideburn than I've ever been able to grow. (I tried to grow my facial hair before I came out. It was not pretty. XD) And I saw the thread on your voice and you honestly sound male to me. I think eyebrows might look too feminine, though I'm not really sure how to change that. But I would say you look and sound male in my honest opinion.

-Isabella

Yea, the eyebrows just grow that way. There's just one weird hair that grows in between my eyebrows so I pull that out but don't do any other brow grooming.

[Guest DanD]

na dont mess with the eyebrows, you got Elvis eyebrows, theyre fine. they'll probably get thicker and you might get more in the middle.. this one ftm guy i know he had very fine eyebrows, but after a while on T, his got broader and stuff, like his brother's.

if you have brothers, youd get an idea what your voice might end up like, and stuff.. i'm very similar to them in voice..but one is like 6 foot 5 and other other is 5 foot 9, and we dont look the same in face or hair or body.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Maria_B
Corrected MTF to FTM

[KieranD]

I've concluded that comparing myself to my brothers won't get me anywhere. My voice is deeper than my two younger brothers (aged 20 and 22). Both of them started developing facial hair early (one can grow a full beard and has been able to for a few years, the other is close with some patchy spots) and at 20 and 22 have no body hair except for a few hairs around the nipples and random stray hairs. I on the other hand have a stomach and chest that's covered in thin hairs, some hair on my back/shoulders and very thin hair on my face that seems to grow on my neck/chin and sideburns area. It's not dense at all.

My eyebrows have gotten a lot thicker from hormones. I never plucked or anything before but I did have naturally very thin eyebrows where people would insist that if I stopped plucking, I would be seen as male. They also shifted to a lower position.

[Guest MsGsptlsnz]

There is a softness to your skin that may be the thing triggering the fem identification... Men don't use sunscreen or moisturizers. Now I'm not a doctor so this could be a real stupid idea but maybe try getting a windburn or sunburn on your face to give it a bit less softness. I'm trying to reverse 40 years of abuse on the skin by moisturizing and exfoliating and it's a slow road. At least you are young and it wont take much to get a few wrinkles and such to male up the face.

Otherwise you are doing good. But I might loose the earings... I know many men wear them but they might be adding to the problem.

[KieranD]

There is a softness to your skin that may be the thing triggering the fem identification... Men don't use sunscreen or moisturizers. Now I'm not a doctor so this could be a real stupid idea but maybe try getting a windburn or sunburn on your face to give it a bit less softness. I'm trying to reverse 40 years of abuse on the skin by moisturizing and exfoliating and it's a slow road. At least you are young and it wont take much to get a few wrinkles and such to male up the face.

Otherwise you are doing good. But I might loose the earings... I know many men wear them but they might be adding to the problem.

I get really bad sunburns. I've been burned before this season but I try not to (family history of skin cancer). The plugs are 00g flesh tunnels...you can see right through 'em but it's much more common for men to wear them than women here. I just don't see them as something seen as so incredibly female to get me seen as female more often than seen as male.

[Guest .Christine Elizabeth.]

Perhaps it's not your face but your body language? Cause you look right and sound right to me, that's all I can think of

[KieranD]

Perhaps it's not your face but your body language? Cause you look right and sound right to me, that's all I can think of

As far as I'm aware, my body language is usually read as male/neutral. I don't sway my hips when I walk, I move my shoulders a bit more. But, also with that....let's say my actions are feminine...how feminine must they be in order to sway people that significantly?

[Guest .Christine Elizabeth.]

I don't know, but there are a lot of subconsience things that influence how we see people. We can even smell people's personalities, no joke, just as well as what we get from their actions. You may just smell female still. There's a lot about people we know without knowing we know.

[Guest Allie Bye]

Kieran, I want to start off by saying you look awesome. not in a way to soften what I'm going to say later, but to get to where you are now....WOW!

but like someone mentioned earlier and to what you replied, the eyebrows. also the lips. if I look at just the eyebrows/eyes or just the lips, I think of female. if I look at everything and the total package, it's very male to me.

you look very "young" to me, so I think as the years go by, you'll naturally look more and more "there". just like some young males can easily pass as females until they start getting into their late 20's and 30's.

[KieranD]

The thing is that young males don't really get seen as female more often than male unless they have...let's say long hair (as an example). A young guy with long hair might get misgendered from behind more often especially if that hair is very soft, shiny and silky smooooth. I however get misgendered from the front and have short hair.

As for my smell...that changed long ago. Sweat, urine, and other fluids smell WAY different since starting hormones. That actually changed or started to after maybe a month on hormones.

[Guest Nikki P]

I'm not really sure what you can do, the only thing I'm seeing is what other people have mentioned, and that's the eyebrows, and the skin softness. Those are definitely male earrings, so I wouldn't think that would be a problem.

Honestly, it's hard to say. I can tell you that since I was about 16 (about 5 years ago), If I was wearing a pair of pants that weren't to baggy, and a non-logo T shirt or something like that, people regularly misgenedered... (correctly gendered =D) me in public. I know part of that was due to my hair, as when I was in highschool it was actually longer than it is now (and how I miss my longer hair...). But it happened from the front as well as the back.

The only way to guarantee I wouldn't get a miss or a mam in public was to wear shorts so my hairy legs were showing, or to let my facial hair grow out. I've never gotten a mam with facial hair though, at least from the front, so I don't know about that. I certainly wouldn't think you were female from the front.

And I have gotten a mam with shorter hair as well, and from the front with short hair. my hair has never been quite as short as yours except for when I was really little, but I've had it pretty short, and it's still happened.

So my guess as to what is causing your problems has to do with the smooth skin, the eyebrows, and I think the face is rounder than average. but the moral of my story was it happens to genetic males as well. Of course, I was always happy when it happened to me, but I pretended to be offended every time, and I'm pretty certain I didn't have any feminine mannerisms, voice, clothes, etc. XD

[Guest KarenLyn]

Your profile pic looked perfectly masculine to me. I was thinking "how could anyone not see you as male". Then I saw the other pic and from the front I have to admit I think you still look either very young or female. I don't know that there's much you can do other than give it more time.

[Michelle 2010]

I would think you can pass casual glances most anywhere including a mens restroom. The eyebrows taper to thin and remain higher on the ends than most guys. FTM's who have been on T for some time often have beards, male pattern baldness and such. It may just be time and patience.

Michelle

[KieranD]

I would think you can pass casual glances most anywhere including a mens restroom. The eyebrows taper to thin and remain higher on the ends than most guys. FTM's who have been on T for some time often have beards, male pattern baldness and such. It may just be time and patience.

Michelle

Ah, hasn't been that way so far. I get misgendered daily, and have been on hormones for two years. even the stuff by my sideburns is very thin.

[Guest SusanB]

Don't sweat it on the facial hair, i'm 53 and i've never been able to grow a full beard. Of course now i prefer to stay clean shaven all the time.

As stated before the eyebrows and lips maybe but i would surely read you as male. Most guys don't look vey closely at other guys features.