Withdrawal: Kindling. Hmmmm...

[Guest vagrant_hippo]

Bonjour à tous--

Hello all

I recently just hit a relapse after a record 64 days of sobriety from drinking/narcotics/ED, and in going back over research regarding withdrawal, I stumbled upon something I hope is helpful to those who might have been confused about what they were going through (I was, thought it was rare and didn't know much about causes and help), or to those struggling with the urge right now.

Hopefully, you haven't gotten to the point where you've suffered alcohol withdrawal/detox; up there with certain narcotics, it's a painful nightmare no one should have to go through, especially for feeling more than most others. I noticed that after my first two detoxes, whenever I drank, unless I continued drinking, I had bad withdrawal symptoms the next day (anxiety, paranoia, foggy mind, fear, panic attacks, tremors, tight muscles, surreal thoughts/sometimes hallucinations if it had been consecutive drinking--and the overall feeling that I was dying). Nooooooot fun at all, though I always found once the symptoms had resided enough by the end of the day, I was finding ways to ok another drinking binge (familiar? yay, 'cunning, patient, and baffling' ). So two days ago, while trying to fight off all the WD symptoms, I was on a sober recovery site and learned two things:

One - Reading through those forums and re-reading (or reminding yourself about) the experiences of WD or a night of bad drinking, makes a big difference in urge control. It's not a cure-all, nothing is--but it definitely helped more than I expected and a lot more than trying to remind myself that 'drinking is bad' (a futile argument without backing, especially when you're craving a drink).

Two - Kindling is the phenomenon of increasingly severe withdrawals regarding alcohol or benzos (ativan, xanax, etc), since both affect the GABA receptors similarly. I had always wondered why I had such bad WD from just a few hours of heavy drinking the night before, especially given my alcoholism was only 24/7 for two years--I had thought you needed to be one of those crusted 20-years-of-drinking alcoholics to have DT like experiences (delirium tremens, btw). But apparently--and keep this in mind if you're trying to taper/control yourself before you reach the point of needing detox--after one detox, every episode of drinking, no matter how much, will initiate withdrawal as the alcohol leaves the body. Sure, because hangovers are factually just a person withdrawing, but for people post-detox, the effects are worse and can't be preempted by simply drinking tons of water and an aspirin (not the best idea anyway, with vessel constriction and liver toxicity). And while this is pretty bad news for post-detoxers, myself included, I've always found it just a bit anxiety-relieving when I know the reasons behind why my body/brain is reacting a certain way. So yup, it's not just you, and no, it doesn't go away after a while. (Granted, maybe every now and then I've woken up and been alright, or it was a significantly smaller amount of alcohol than I normally consume, but it doesn't mean you can pull a reverse-tolerance essentially, where you can get rid of WD effects and drink more.)

As for how to make WD easier...well, there's no cure unless you're lucky enough to sleep ALL the way through it, but since I'm already a little unsure how much of this needs to be censored or not, <a href="http://en.wikipedia....drawal_syndrome">here's</a> a link about WD, kindling, and treatments that I've found fairly helpful. For me, I tend to cut out fatty foods, eat things like broccoli and other anti-oxidants, soup, TONS of water and moderate amounts of Gatorade (be careful of sugar levels, since alcohol is all sugar in the end, and sugar affects GABA receptors as well), and foods with plenty of magnesium, potassium, vitamin B (especially B1 also known as thiamin, B6, and B12--helps with metabolizing the toxins out and relaxes mildly), vitamin C, tryptophan, theanine, and consequently, serotonin and dopamine. Also--safely and non-abused, this is not condoning!--dextromethorphan has properties of relaxing the mind during WD as it acts as an NMDA antagonist.

But remember! The only sure way to avoid negative effects, withdrawal, and full relapse, is to not drink in the first place! Easy to say of course...

I hope this was helpful! And within guidelines....I'm still learning and I'm sure the mod will make some changes. Open to feedback, as well as anyone else's experiences/tips.

"Even if happiness forgets you a little bit, never completely forget about it." Jacques Prévert

♥

[Charlize]

Hello and thanks for the post,

I certainly think that withdraw should be done with a DR's help. Many die in do it yourself detoxing. I was lucky and while i damaged my heart i made it through. Stupid on my part.

Neither i nor Laura's can recommend self detoxing. Please get help.

There is an AA/NA meeting in the chat rooms on Sun at 9:00 pm. Thats a good place to start with people who share both GD and addictions.

There are also meetings all over the world.

Please don't try to detox alone.

Hugs,

Charlie

[Michelle 2010]

Hi VP. I must say, I have met a number young people who were walking pharmacology experts, but never one so knowledgeable in the biochemistry of alcohol withdrawal.

Because of the wonderful photo in your sig line, I read your profile to see how old you are. Its nice to see young people today who appreciate the literary pioneers that preceded them. Their quest to fly as close to the sun as possible without having their wax wings melt off produced some remarkable stream of conciousness literature. no? Of course, many did crash and burn, both the high magnitude and lesser stars in the cultural galaxy.

Your post uses a phrase found in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous ("cunning, baffling, and powerful"), which leads me to believe you had some exposure to 12 step recovery. Probably a good thing... for one so young to know some much about alcohol withdrawal and its dangers reflects a pretty impressive short intense drinking career. In meetings, I often refer to my desire to experience an intense altered state as similar to a surfer finding the good wave and wanting to ride it in the curl, where the wave is most powerful, producing the most exhilerating effects of the sport. The problem with that was that it also is most likely to produce the maximum number of wipeouts. I was very good at it for a long time and I too sought out alternate realities, reading books such as Aldous Huxley's The Doors of Perception, as well as Howl, On the Road, etc.

You see, I always thought the problem was that Reality was boring, or for other people, and I wanted to take it to the next level, particularly when I was your age. Experimented with hallucinegens, etc. as well as my ultimate favorite, alcohol. What I never realized was that the problem wasn't Reality, it was me...Drugs and Alcohol allowed Me to change, rather than Reality to change.. In Recovery we can and do change, and therefore our Perception of Reality changes as well.

Your very educated post on WD illustrates a point from the AA handbook, the story of the jaywalker who likes to play in traffic... For those that don't know the story, it states that some of us have a self destructive compulsion similar to that of a jaywalker getting a thrill dodging cars and seeing how close he can get to getting hit. The game is full of excitement and he does indeed get hit, ending up in the hospital. And it occurs time and time again, with him mending his broken body and going out to play in traffic again and again. Describing the nuances and mechanics of WD is like discussing the best material to use to make the casts that will support the broken bones of the jay walker. The issue really isn't how to mend the bones, or even whether it makes sense, to play the game... The issue is really how to get rid of the Need to play the game, how to replace the thrill of the game with something that is equally satisfying. That is what recovery is about. The story is used to illustrate the well known Definition of Insanity that all addicts are familiar with.

You avatar statement on The Quest you describe, leads me to believe you might appeciate the line in the AA book in which they refer to "being rocketed into the fourth dimension". William James' book The Varieties of Religious Experience, and the psychologist Carl Jung, both were bit players in the development to the 12 Step Path, something you might find interesting. What you are seeking truly is available to you without the use of drugs and alcohol. 12 step Recovery can introduce you to a world you never knew existed if you have the willingness to set aside preconceptions, park the Ego at the door, and get involved.

Best Wishes

Michelle

[Guest vagrant_hippo]

Thanks and my apologies Charlie, I wasn't attempting to suggest home detox--I fully agree, if someone is indeed going through a legitimate detox as opposed to a day-after withdrawal, DEF seek a doctor or a brief inpatient stay where they can provide the right meds and nutrient/saline flushes to balance the body. Thanks for the point.

And thanks Michelle! That was a far more complimentary post than I expected hahaha--and I feel you sense a bit of your younger self in me? If not, sorry for the presumption :/

And yes, I've worked 12 step programs for about a year now, and thankfully I can report that it was just a brief relapse and I've been clean for five days going on forever (again, but you always have to start somewhere). I actually love the Big Book story you referenced, it was one of the first ones I read in recovery, as well as James and Jung! I majored in literature and philosophy with a minor in psychology haha, so that might explain a lot.

And in case others are reading this, I agree with your point on the substance changing the self rather than reality (my problem was knowing this going into drugs and alcohol, being fascinated with the fact that self-perception can be so easily manipulated by one's mind and that reality is alterable based on your own perception). I only say this because, if someone else reading feels like you or I do/did, it's the point that: you are just as able to ponder/form your own perceptions and 'realities' with the sole strength of your mind and beliefs, and substance alterations are not you're creations, just a chemical reaction based on pieces of you.

So....far off-tangent, sorry again! But I just hope to clarify that this is for others struggling with WD, relapse, or hoping to abstain by being knowledgeable of just how bad things can get intentionally or not. And because just in case anyone else on LP had a fascination or was confused about these things (such as kindling), because it made a big difference for my sobriety once I learned what I learned and only wished it had not taken as long.

....ramblerambleramble.....

L'orgueil est le consolateur des faibles. (Pride is the Comforter of the weak)

♥ Caroline!

Edited October 15, 2012 by Bette
Simple translation on behalf of OP.

[Michelle 2010]

" being fascinated with the fact that self-perception can be so easily manipulated by one's mind and that reality is alterable based on your own perception). I only say this because, if someone else reading feels like you or I do/did, it's the point that: you are just as able to ponder/form your own perceptions and 'realities' with the sole strength of your mind and beliefs,"

I have developed a metaphor this summer for the experience of casual drug and alcohol use by addicts in training. Its based on taking meetings to a group of @80 young people every week for the past 8 months. It goes like this:

Drug and alcohol use starts off like taking trips to Disney World.. It starts as fun and games and occurs occasionally. After a while the visits to the amusement park increase in frequency. Occasionally the visitor forgets its an amusement park... and shortly thereafter it starts to become less pleasant. It starts getting harder to find the exits out of the park as this progresses. The thrills start getting scarier, memories of the real world more cloudy, and the exit signs increasing more obscure... At this point, the visitor is very close to trapped and soon will be if he makes it out one more time and decides to return... If he goes down the Rabbit Hole again he is trapped and may lose the memory of what reality is... lying, manipulating, stealing, rationalizing, betraying friends and parents, prostituting values and even the body become logical extensions of the amusement park gone mad... Think of it as morphing from Walt Disney to Steven King...

Yes, this is an extreme metaphor, but true in some degree with all of us. The amusement park, our mind and body, can betray us. the Big Book states, and I believe, even for people as smart as you and I ( ), that Self Knowledge is insufficient to cure addiction. Further, it states that most of us had a well defined moral code, or set of values, and it couldn't save us... We simply lacked the power to overcome our addiction.

Ultimately we had to turn to a power greater than ourselves.

This is an important point regarding your relapse... No matter how smart, how strong a set of ethical standards, our sobriety is contingent on the daily maintenance of a fit spiritual condition. and of course that is the basis of any 12 step program.

Enough pontificating for now

Michelle