Passing denotes some one is failing?

[Guest (Lightsider)]

Hi every one. I am hesitant to post this because I am a moderator and I do not want any of you to think I do not like any of your posts. I post this out of concern and hopefully some one can take something away from what I am saying and apply it positively to their own life.

In my opinion when I see the question..."Do I pass?" my reaction is two fold. 1. Why is it so important to feel you pass? and 2. To "Pass" denotes that some one else fails at "Passing as their core identity." In a way it separates the community in two camps. The haves and have nots.

When I first transitioned it was a concern of mine if I passed. But some how I was able to move on and not be worried about it and it was a freeing feeling. It no longer held power over my happiness. I have never been harassed and questioned twice as to what my gender was early on. Maybe I am lucky or perhaps I have such a thick skin it does not bother me what people may think. I don't know. I just know my attitude works for me. I go about my business and I don't worry about it. If I am ever questioned about it or harassed I know that I will stand up for myself.

Anyway. I would encourage you to think about the word PASSING and what means to you and to the community. I for one never use the word because I feel it is insensitive to describe how some one is doing. "Oh she passes just fine." We are all brothers and sisters short, tall, fat, skinny, late transitioner, early transitioner..etc....

In the end..when some one does not meet that bar of "passing" it can increase the feelings of self hate and disgust. I know..because at one time I was there.

i hope this post is received in the spirit it is meant be. One of love and concern. Remember, this is just my opinion..

-Nicole

[Guest Tamar]

Thank you Nicole. Wise words for all

[Guest angels wings]

I agree with you Nicole I think some just need some confirmation . We all have low self esteem especially as women we want this that and everything else . But a sisters and brothers we are all beautiful

Angel

[Guest (Lightsider)]

My hope is that every one can feel confident in who they are and not in what society expects them to be. In a way this is the flip side of how society pressures girls to look like barbie dolls.

[Guest angels wings]

That's for sure the way society has influenced girls is very sad . There is always competition and they learn from young that to be pretty you need ...................... If only we could all see humans as beautiful there would be no competition just acceptance unity and joy

Angel

[Guest miss kindheart]

Their are many test for a TG to pass, and none can pass them all

When i see a post asking if I pass , I personay think of the "post a picture test "

Nothing wrong with asking

For most i think once we feel comfortable taking any step forward it kind of becomes old hat in away.

vanna

PS Hey hows your handwritting does it pass

http://www.tsroadmap...ting/index.html

[VickySGV]

I just bumped one of my ancient history posts up to be near this one because I truly feel that it is related to this topic.. http://www.lauras-playground.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=43991 If I have learned one thing in the past 15 months that I have been full time as female it is that I am a variation of a variation of variable aspects of simply being a people or person as you will.

The highest compliment I can receive is "you look happy with yourself and are more fun to be with." I don't care if my hair is a mess, or my lipstick is unstuck when I hear things like that. People still recognize me as the guy who did something remarkable in a negative way. Today it was about always putting down a liter of wine in a restaurant every night I was there as him that was remembered. "Yes I was that person, but I am happier now than I have ever been and don't need or want the wine to feel good and have fun. The food here tastes much better without it!!" I don't pass, evidently, but the server smiled at me and told me they could see the happines and comfort with my own body.

I don't pass at my church, they have 20 years of memory of me as a male but I am welcome and have done even more there than I could have in the past because I was not happy with my body. These people are ready to give me love and acceptance, and now I can accept their acceptance since I accept me too.

I do not pass to my family, because I still do almost all of my male hobbies and can still help my Ex wife with a clogged kitchen sink and repair a ceiling fan. Once again, the old is seen, but the new happiness is the key to their acceptance of me whatever I look like.

[Guest (Lightsider)]

You figured it out Vicky. Awesome. :-) I am so happy for you!

[Guest Megan_Lynn]

Being the mischievous one that I am. I will add some twisted humor to this. If one passes as their target gender that also means they failed at presenting as their unwanted gender...just saying..hehe...

Anywho I am not real happy with the fraze do I pass. Much prefer the word present over pass. I have known more then a few ci females that look like guys but are not see that way as they carry themselves like and average woman does. Passing is not as big a deal as how you present yourself. Plain and simple you could be super hot looking but if you do not carry yourself as your target gender you will out yourself way faster then buy looks alone. This includes lots of things like how one walks, talks( both voice and how one uses their words), body language, ect. Looks only matter such a small part. And they only matter at first glance. The better you carry yourself the more you will present regardless of looks. In my opinion I am one of the most dog ugly people I have ever seen but yet I never have problems presenting as female cause I carry myself that way at all times. Attitude Attitude Attitude live it ,learn it, love it..Just let you inside out and all will work out....

[Guest]

This thread comes for me at a wonderful week of introspection. My looks, my thinking, my life and how it is all changing. What to keep, what can go and what I have no control over.

I look at me and the best I can see is a Gurlyboy, that's as stealth as I get. I can accept that and love me. Lately, I love me enough to be brave enough to post pictures, much more, in my gallery. The public sees me daily, why not here too. I am changing in appearance too, so my perception of me is changing also. My real beauty is the joy of being myself. Genuine and authentic. Is that a gender issue? Or an issue for everyone. I have the courage to change. Am I just flattering myself? Though my best motive is letting people here see me in my daily life. The daydream I have is that someday I can bump into people from here and they can smile and say, Hey Jody!, because they know me that well. Hey, beats getting flipped off in traffic. Giggle.

I was very proud of my appearance this weekend, so I posted that picture too. A very good friend from here, made me laugh to tears of joy when she commented;

"You look lovely and happy! It looks like you borrowed those bracelets from Wonder Woman. In a fight I bet they'd deflect gunfire. Very nice accessories I must say. Very 'I'm graceful and elegant and soft and if pressed hard, will wrench your life out of joint!' You go, girlie girl." I died!!! Loving comments like that from friends helps me joyfully grow in leaps and bounds!

I wish that joy for everyone here. Someone told me it's a bear to grow up in public. We can all grow here lovingly together, because it is a safe rest stop along our very difficult journey.

Appreciation to all. JodyAnn

[Guest Tamar]

[Guest rikkicd64]

Thank you so much for posting this Nicole, What you said is so very true. I do not "pass",but I go about life happy that I am "me".Like Vicky stated, sometimes I go out with my hair a mess or my lipstick a little off,but that is ok too.

Rikki...

[Guest (Lightsider)]

Hi Rikki, As some one stated before a question of how one presents is a better one to ask. i would think every ones goal would be comfortable in ones skin which to me translates into a sense of peace. it sounds like you found your sense of peace which is awesome stuff :-)

[Guest SonadoraXVX]

Well, I hate to be the devil's advocate in this discussion, but here I go. Society as a whole do judge people based on appearance. For example, yesterday, I was in a suburb of Los Angeles, called Glendale, and seen this young lady, with some sort of eye tatoo and she was walking along crossing the crosswalk minding her business, and some old ladies walking counter to her on the crosswalk gave her a pretty apparent leer, of course the young lady walked as if not seeing them. Now, in another part of Los Angeles County, I seen these two young ladies, apparently teenagers, holding each other's arms with their skateboards and I could see in their eyes their fear and some cars honking at them as they passed them by, take into consideration these ladies all appeared to be cisgendered(ie. who am I to judge sometimes, sheesh). My observation is this, some people are more confident in certain environments then in others, I call it the environmental context or situational environment, also some people are more introvert than others, the introverts tend to get their approval from society alot more, then the extroverts, who tend to sometimes throw caution to the wind. My thing is this, we must respect others questions, when they say if they pass, since usually I tend to peg them as more introvert(ie. I am one of them), then extroverts, who are more the center of attention. So to state well, why they ask those questions, the individual make up is alot more complex then just saying, "Well just be who you want to be, don't mind the public as much).

Lucia,

P.S. Hopefully I'm not off topic on this.

[Guest (Lightsider)]

I respect when some one asks if they pass. I just think there is a better question to ask..."how do i present?" because there is so much more to being you than to base "passing" on a few photos. There is socialization/interaction, mannerisms of either gender, appearance, name choice being reflective of age, clothing choices and if they are appropriate and the list goes on. I would say to base your own ability to "Pass" based on few photos is risky and people should approach that with caution.

But as always one size does not fit all and my advice is open to rejection.

[Guest (Lightsider)]

Megan, Very SAGE advice. And in my opinion you hit the nail on the head.

[Guest Maria_B]

Nicole, presenting would still be indicative that one could fail.

I think it's impossible to have a word to describe ''Judge me on how I look'' without something being indicative that someone can do poorly, fail or otherwise not accomplish or look how they set out to.

Perhaps the best way to go about things is to be asking for advice on how to achieve looks, rather than to ask if they did achieve it?

Just my 27,000 Gil worth.

[Guest (Lightsider)]

Well for what it's worth Maria, and this might be along the lines of what you are talking about and what I am aiming to achieve is the use of the word "Presenting" can open the door to suggestions, tips and other constructive advice. Where as I feel the question that is asked "Do I pass?" is a YES or NO. Very little room for a growth moment. If one is still open to learning, which we all should be doing there is no fail. The biggest thing is, when people ask if they pass in a photo they need to be aware that a photo alone is not enough to say for sure how well one will do in public. I would hate to have some one be told they "Pass" based on a photo then go out in public and get insulted or injured by some doof who read that person as trans.

"How can I present better?" Would be an awesome question I think falls in line with your idea?

I also want to add that most people are not going to say ..."YOU DON"T PASS." Because it is pretty harsh. And many people do not see a way to approach such a situation with a tactful way to present improvements when a question is so closed ended.

[Carolyn Marie]

Thanks for this thread, Nicole. It's a discussion always worth having.

I worried about it for a long time when I first starting going out en femme, long before i went full time. I wondered if people were staring, and what they were thinking if I caught them looking at me. Then one day it hit me - they are staring because I'm staring at them! Cisgen people don't do that (well, most, anyway). When you act nervous, and look at strangers for no apparent reason, its odd behavior, and will attract attention to you. If you are confident in yourself, and hold your head up and look ahead, no one is going to pay you any mind if you've done a reasonable job of dressing to fit it. If you're my age and walk around in black leather pants and a biker jacket, stares are probably what you're hoping to get.

I have a nice face, I'm short, and my voice is OK, and those things help. But I don't walk very girlish, I have a belly that I do my best to hide, and other mannerisms that give me away. But in 18 months of living full time, I've never had an incident of any kind. I spent two months hanging out with jurors in a trial, and was treated exactly like everyone else. Even the male jurors were affectionate towards me.

The bottom line is that self confidence is, IMHO, 90 percent of presenting successfully. That and a smile when you talk to people, because even if they are thinking "I think this person is transsexual," if you are smiling, and are nice, they aren't going to have an issue with you, and will smile back. That's what its all about, isn't it?

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

[Guest]

I also want to add that most people are not going to say ..."YOU DON"T PASS." Because it is pretty harsh. And many people do not see a way to approach such a situation with a tactful way to present improvements when a question is so closed ended.

Most people are pretty supportive here. I can't recall anyone ever telling someone that they don't pass. WHo does that help? I do like the proposed "presentation" forum but do be aware that millions of people spend billions on plastic surgery. SO people are always going to be asking if they pass no matter what you call it. Some are always going to be into the "Physical" first which is only part of the story. There is a reason that beautiful models grace our commercials and magazine covers so it's not easy to ignore people who always see the Physical first.. The whole goal is to be as complete as one can be. The physical is a part of it but not the whole story. Do be aware that changing the name means that some links in articles may no longer work. Let me discuss the matter with the staff.

Laura

[Guest (Lightsider)]

Thank you Laura. :-)

[Guest LizMarie]

My advice on looks is this - go to the mall and sit down and watch the people as they pass. If you are MtF look at the women. If you are FtM look at the men. They come in all shapes and sizes. They look different. If you are MtF and want to be a beautiful bombshell maybe you want FFS but no one needs it. You might not be the most beautiful woman but you can be accepted as a woman if you project yourself as a woman.

The only caveats I have on this for MtFs are twofold - beard shadow and voice. If you can master these two issues, you can "pass" (I hate that word) if you are confident as a woman! And even a poor feminine voice will let you mostly be accepted if the beard shadow question is resolved. Beyond that, hormones, FFS, all of it becomes a matter of personal satisfaction not something that anyone "needs" to be accepted in their gender. That's what I've seen so far.

I'll admit that I have on my own personal agenda a rhinoplasty, because I want my nose to look more like my mom's, my sister's, and my daughters. Beyond that I may do a few other FFS procedures purely from a sense of vanity and for myself, not for anyone else. But I already know I can be accepted. And if I can be accepted, then you can too.

[Guest (Lightsider)]

So...is there any one else who wants share view point on this subject. There are some wonderful thoughts so far.

[Guest sophia.gentry58]

I just bumped one of my ancient history posts up to be near this one because I truly feel that it is related to this topic.. http://www.lauras-playground.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=43991 If I have learned one thing in the past 15 months that I have been full time as female it is that I am a variation of a variation of variable aspects of simply being a people or person as you will.

The highest compliment I can receive is "you look happy with yourself and are more fun to be with." I don't care if my hair is a mess, or my lipstick is unstuck when I hear things like that. People still recognize me as the guy who did something remarkable in a negative way. Today it was about always putting down a liter of wine in a restaurant every night I was there as him that was remembered. "Yes I was that person, but I am happier now than I have ever been and don't need or want the wine to feel good and have fun. The food here tastes much better without it!!" I don't pass, evidently, but the server smiled at me and told me they could see the happines and comfort with my own body.

I don't pass at my church, they have 20 years of memory of me as a male but I am welcome and have done even more there than I could have in the past because I was not happy with my body. These people are ready to give me love and acceptance, and now I can accept their acceptance since I accept me too.

I do not pass to my family, because I still do almost all of my male hobbies and can still help my Ex wife with a clogged kitchen sink and repair a ceiling fan. Once again, the old is seen, but the new happiness is the key to their acceptance of me whatever I look like.

You are awe inspiring Vicky!!! Thank you.

Sophia

[Guest Deenah]

I can't agree more with you,sometimes when i reading posts i sorta get annoyed when people are so concerned with Do i pass. I think a lot need to go back to the beginning and remember what make them identify as a women. I don't care to much about the passing part all that much..I am who i am and that's just the way it's going to be. Everyone is different on the inside and the outside,i think if you were doing you're homework you would see that no one female is the same,and that goes the same for transgender women too.

I have been spending so much time studying females at coffee shops,and around town that i have been missing the inviting looks i get from men walking by. I say don't focus to much on one thing,it's the whole that matters...

Deener