Pre-t Passing tips

[Guest Rlentlesskay]

Hey

I am 20 years old and currently on the waiting list at Kings cross hospital in London to start receive hormone treatment, and I was just wondering if anyone has any tips on passing pre-T?

I am having a terrible time passing and I honestly have no idea why =/ I am pre-T so my voice is not as low as it could be, but I have quite a naturally low voice and also make it deeper, I'm also not particularly buff but I do regularly work out and have a straight up and down figure. I also bind every day and act 100% masculine, I'm just so confused as to why people still refer to me as "miss" and when I am out with my girlfriend "ladies" :S

I would say I pass about 25% of the time, which is fine, but I just really want to be seen as who I am, so just wondering if anyone has any advice on what I could possibly do, or what I am doing wrong

Thankyou

Kay

[Guest AdenAngel]

I completely feel your pain. I have the same sort of problem, however, I find that when my friends are referring to me as male with pronouns or my name that it tends to help for those addressing me.

Sometimes people just can't tell and they may assume because you're with a group of girls that you may just be a butch lesbian. It's probably not that you're not acting male enough.

I hope this was at least a little bit helpful

[Guest Waffle Cat]

I have a similar case. Strangers normally call me "sir" if I slouch low enough.

But. Judging by your profile pic, I'm guessing it's your hair. I don't know about your country, but out here, only girls and stubborn high school students have that long bangs. When I ask people, "do I really look like a dude," (for teh lulz) they tell me it's my hair.

There's also your facial features. That's probably a factor, too.

That's all I got.

[Guest Rlentlesskay]

I have a similar case. Strangers normally call me "sir" if I slouch low enough.

But. Judging by your profile pic, I'm guessing it's your hair. I don't know about your country, but out here, only girls and stubborn high school students have that long bangs. When I ask people, "do I really look like a dude," (for teh lulz) they tell me it's my hair.

There's also your facial features. That's probably a factor, too.

That's all I got.

Thanks for the advice

I have been feeling I could do with a hair cut haha. I live in England but usually most men of my age have similar hair length to me (unless they are what we call chavs, yobs etc) who usually have their hair shaven or very short. I prefer to keep my hair slightly longer so can style it as my hair is important to me lol, and I also dont want to be associated with that group.

Any suggestions on what I could possibly to with my hair? My girlfriend is a hair stylist but unhelpful, she likes longer hair on me and punky styles so whenever I ask her I get nothing except "dye it black" haha

Also I am painfully aware of my baby face XD haha I often pass as a 14 year old boy rather than a 20 year old guy, which doesnt bother me too much as at least they got the gender right. I do however shave my face once a week in an effort to get rid of any peach fuzz and to promote hair growth, in hopes it might make my face appear more masculine.

[Guest Rlentlesskay]

I completely feel your pain. I have the same sort of problem, however, I find that when my friends are referring to me as male with pronouns or my name that it tends to help for those addressing me.

Sometimes people just can't tell and they may assume because you're with a group of girls that you may just be a butch lesbian. It's probably not that you're not acting male enough.

I hope this was at least a little bit helpful

Thankyou

I may have to start asking my friends to start openly calling me male in public, I mean they do but dont push that I am male. They allways refer to me with male pronouns but the do speak to me in the same way as before, in a slightly feminine way i suppose, like ask questions you wouldnt really ask a male friend like "your hair is so pretty what do you use, were did you get those shoes?" haha

[Guest AdenAngel]

Again, I totally feel your pain. My friends are just the same way. I really hope you find a way to get people to see you as yourself.

Passing in public is always a struggle.

Let us know what works out for you! I'd really like to know.

[Guest Kelly92]

Can't you just ask a hairdresser to give you a more masculine look? I've always said I want to cut all my hair off completely, but my friend says that longer hair (to below my ears) actually makes me look more masculine than if it was shaved as it hides my face shape more.

[Guest aleon515]

A buzz cut doesn't usually make you look more masculine, unless you pass 100% anyway. I think people think butch when they see it.

--Jay

[Guest Gregg Jameson]

I completely feel your pain. I have the same sort of problem, however, I find that when my friends are referring to me as male with pronouns or my name that it tends to help for those addressing me.

Sometimes people just can't tell and they may assume because you're with a group of girls that you may just be a butch lesbian. It's probably not that you're not acting male enough.

I hope this was at least a little bit helpful

Thankyou

I may have to start asking my friends to start openly calling me male in public, I mean they do but dont push that I am male. They allways refer to me with male pronouns but the do speak to me in the same way as before, in a slightly feminine way i suppose, like ask questions you wouldnt really ask a male friend like "your hair is so pretty what do you use, were did you get those shoes?" haha

Yes, well, that may be one of the factors which feeds into this issue for you?

Recently, one of my closest friends was telling me she was trying to fully understand my feelings and also trying to be supportive; yet, it all did not make the most sense to her until one day she had asked me a question, within a statement...something she'd say to a girlfriend...and something she has never said to me before. (I cannot even recall what it was she'd said to me.) I had replied, quickly and firmly with. "That's clearly not something you'd say to any guy." I was sincere, clear, succinct and had meant what I'd said. No drama. I'd had no idea of why she was saying this type of a thing to me, especially since she never had before. That was that. She got it... on a much deeper level. I felt good for clearly saying what I had said.

I think, if/when any of us are used to relating to the girls as one of the girls, or to women as a woman, it's maybe time to re-examine our role in this, especially if we want recognition as a male? If we don't want recognition as a male, this is a non-issue. If we are "one of the girls," let's take an honest look at that fact. If we are not "one of the girls, " let's also take an honest look at this fact!

While the "underlying understanding" (of talking along with the girls/women as though you are one of them) may be helpful, if you have that understanding, the overt expression of this is probably not helping you with your overall male identity with others, especially out in public. In order to curtail this in public, you may very well need to curtail this in your more private conversations with your female friends? (Yet, again, I stress this only if this is interfering with what you really want most.)

It's just a guess on my part! Lol!

I truly do not know. I have never engaged in the type of talking which many/most women tend to engage in with one another.

I am truly lost when they start those types of conversations and/or am not interested, at all.

I have never been able to pretend to play this part, ever, with any female friend in my life. Seriously.

Infact, my female friends tell me they now understand, much better, just how to relate to me since they have more fully realized that I tend think much more like a male. I may be a compassionate male; yet, still very male. Now that they simply accept me within this context, the fact that I tend to think in this way, they now know how best to communicate with me. It's been very helpful for us to clarify the simple fact of how my brain works, in relationship to the ways some of my female friends' brains work. (Their brains work perfectly well, by the way. We just have different interests and we process things very differently, etc.)

When women try to speak to me about their female friends, saying something to me, like, "I am a woman, so I understand what she'd meant by her comments and understand her stance." ...Uggh ... I haven't a clue as to what they are referring. None. I then ask them to please clue me in because I have absolutely no idea of what they mean, nor do I understand what their friend had meant with the original comments, etc. Totally clueless in these types of conversations.

My long-term female friends simply know there are certain types of conversations they cannot have with me. I used to be puzzled when I would overhear them talking about certain topics with female friends. I would sometimes just observe and wonder. Other times, I would inquire, because I truly had no understanding of this friend within that mode, which was simply because this friend could not share that mode of relating with me. It was true, as the type of conversations they were having were very rewarding to them, clearly so; yet, I was very disinterested and ... hadn't a clue how they were gaining anything out of the content of their conversations! They were, clearly gaining something from these conversations though! I had no way to join in with these conversations...and also truly had no interest in doing so when I'd given it a try once. just once! Lol! I am clueless to this style of interacting. I am also very disinterested, although I sometimes find the subject matter quite curious and entertaining. I would not be able to listen in very often though. More power to them in their fun with each other though! They are having fun! I want them to have fun! I love to spend time with happy, fun women!

I am sure I have some features within my communication styles which are less masculine and/or more feminine though.

Oh well, so be it!

It's really up to you to decide which types of limits to set, when and where... and even why!

Best wishes!

Brad

[Flint]

A buzz cut doesn't usually make you look more masculine, unless you pass 100% anyway. I think people think butch when they see it.

--Jay

This is true. Don't get a buzz cut when you're pre- T.

As for the waiting list thing, a waiting list for the actual hormonal treatment? Or do you mean a waiting list to get to the actual clinic in the first place?

[Guest Rlentlesskay]

A buzz cut doesn't usually make you look more masculine, unless you pass 100% anyway. I think people think butch when they see it.

--Jay

As for the waiting list thing, a waiting list for the actual hormonal treatment? Or do you mean a waiting list to get to the actual clinic in the first place?

I mean A waiting list for hormone treatment. here in the UK we have "free" health care, its not really free, we pay extortionate taxes for our "free" health care, which means I have to wait as only one hospital in England deals with this kind of thing, you also have to go through alot of psycho analysis before your entitled to ANYTHING, you cant decide you are trans here, you need to be told you are XD You could go private with this kind of thing, but you would still have to wait for analysis as you wouldn't legally be classed as trans...... annoying I know =/

[Flint]

A buzz cut doesn't usually make you look more masculine, unless you pass 100% anyway. I think people think butch when they see it.

--Jay

As for the waiting list thing, a waiting list for the actual hormonal treatment? Or do you mean a waiting list to get to the actual clinic in the first place?

I mean A waiting list for hormone treatment. here in the UK we have "free" health care, its not really free, we pay extortionate taxes for our "free" health care, which means I have to wait as only one hospital in England deals with this kind of thing, you also have to go through alot of psycho analysis before your entitled to ANYTHING, you cant decide you are trans here, you need to be told you are XD You could go private with this kind of thing, but you would still have to wait for analysis as you wouldn't legally be classed as trans...... annoying I know =/

Aye. I know. I'm from the UK.

Only one hospital? you talking about the one in london? Correction yes you are, read a bit of your OP again. Well...There are other clinics but....they're not very good, well from my experience anyway...

I didn't know that about private clinics.... are you sure? If you're waiting for the hormones I'm guessing you've already been diagnosed as trans?

The UK are also very reluctant it seems to treat younger people. it seems if you go for it in your 30's you'll get through all the hoops much easier but if you're young like late teens, 20's you really seem to have to prove it...

Don't get me started on their discrimination and lack of personalized services either.....If you're disabled and can't do the same RLT as everyone else..... Meh.

[Guest Rlentlesskay]

Ah I didnt see you were from the UK haha. Yeah the guy over seeing my transition gave me a bunch of booklets on going private for surgeries and just general transition, you can ask for one I would have thought from a councilor or GP.

From what have bee told from my councilor it is Kings Cross hospital that deals with all over 18 year olds in England but there a a few others in the north, as for the actual private clinics I have no idea were they would be, I just know that it is an option, which I have been thinking about a lot, just because I cant stand waiting around forever haha. I understand its a long process but it very much feels out of your control, just waiting on other people "to get around to" looking at your file and actually passing your information to the right place.

I know the referral for hormone treatments waiting list is about 6 months but its the time it takes for appointments that makes the process so long, for example i waited 2 months for my information to be directed towards a councilor even after badgering them for weeks, and that wasn't even like waiting for an appointment that was waiting for someone to email my information so that they could book an appointment, realistically would take 30 seconds not 2 months =/ lol.

It is extremely frustrating because I just want to at least start hormone treatment so I can start feeling right, but its taking forever, which is probably why I feel like I don't pass very well because nothing on the outside is even starting to become male, and I just want whats on the inside to be on the outside too, but when its not in your control and your waiting on other people I suppose is why I feel I don't pass or that others don't see me as male.

I do wish the UK had more clinics though, just to make the actual transition process a bit easier, we have plenty of psychological help available, but when it comes to physical its such a longgggggggggggggggg winded process which could really be avoided if there was more that one hospital in the country that dealt with it XD

Edited January 8, 2013 by 4 Charlie
inappropriate language

[Guest Lokki]

It could also be the way you dress. In my experience, dressing more "maturely" (button-down shirts, khakis) leads to less mis-gendering. Jeans and t-shirts, on me at least, lead to people reading me as a butch female. When I dress office-casual or whatnot, even when I might not pass, people have more of a tendency to call me "sir".