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Guest Elizabeth K

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Guest Elizabeth K

Need some help here - so if you see anything that can add to or correct the following, please let me know.

I am trying to see how we fit into the world (DUH - WE ALL WANNA KNOW THAT) No people, statistically. I have tried to use the few research books I can find and the WikiPedia online.

Gender related birth disorders, I read that 1/20,000 births are where the gender cannot be assigned immediately - I can't find the source

Intersex (a term which I find the 'intersex' don't like - they are trying to be defined as DSD - Disorders of Sexual Development)

Klinefelter Syndrome - occurs in 1 per 500 males but usually goes undetected (an XXY genetic person) seems high

Hermaphrodite - extremely rare but I cannot find an occurance rate

AIS (Androggen Insensitivity Syndrome) - 1/20,000 births - (feminization of the XY genetic person)

Turner's Syndrome - 1/2500 females - some case lead to masculinization of the XX genetic person

5ARD (five alpha-reductace Deficiency) Dominican Republic specific genetic disorder - 1/90 males - feminization of the XY genetic person

Cross dressing - 1/1000 males - I can't find the source

Transsexualism - this is all over the graph. Studies indicate 20,000 transsexuals, post op , live in the USA. Some sources show up to 60,000 which include the transitioning. Another source shows 1/30,000 people are MTF and 1/100,000 are FTM. I also see sources showing that better figures including European statistics show a more likelyhood that 1/2400 is a better number, and the numbers of actual diagnosed transsexuals are increassing at a number of 14% increase per year. The estimate in some sources show a probable incidence of as much as 1/350 are transsexual, mostly undiagnosed.

If there are 60,000 transsexual in the USA population rounded to 350 million, then the number is about 1/58,000. If there are 20,000 post op, the number is 1/175,000.

Homosexual - 2 to 7% according to sources - assumption 2/100 = 70,000,000 in the USA

So in an assembly of 400 people - statistically

8 will be homosexual (includes GLB) - up to 28 if using the high number

It will take two more meetings to have a cross dresser attend

It will take another 145 meetings before a transsexual will attend - and it is three times more likely that person will be MTF - but there is only a 1 in 3

chance that person will be post op

It is statistically insignificant any Intersex will attend as it would require at least 10,000 more meetings - EXCEPT for Klienfelter & Turners Syndrome

which surprising shows two more meetings and 60 more meetings respectively, before a male who is also female, and a female who is really a

male, will attend.

Golly? Amazing - is this correct?

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Actually, it would take only about 75 meetings to see a MTF anda whole 250 for FTM, two or three meetings to see someone with Klinefelter Syndrome, 100 meetings for AIS, only 12 or 13 for Turner's Syndrome, and about 56 meetings for someone who has 5ARD!

im a total math geek, sry

-Emily

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Guest Kelly Ann
:blink: HUH?!!?! :blink: ERM...Liz are you taking you vitamins? LOL...these are good statistics? It's an interesting premise...might need a little polishing...did I mention it's interesting? Now at what temperature are these readings taken? If Sally's Brownian Motion Generator (oops...hope I didn't spill the beans there Sally) were brought into play would this perhaps change things? Think there might be a Government grant available? Just thinking here, Kelly Ann
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Guest Elizabeth K
Actually, it would take only about 75 meetings to see a MTF anda whole 250 for FTM, two or three meetings to see someone with Klinefelter Syndrome, 100 meetings for AIS, only 12 or 13 for Turner's Syndrome, and about 56 meetings for someone who has 5ARD!

im a total math geek, sry

-Emily

Hey - you are right! I am guilty of hasty math! OMG like Hastey Pudding I guess... I was cruching numbers that I arbitrarily have to pick as a median - so there we go. Well - I was still amazed at the diversity I found in the definitions - and what I could present to a hypothetical church meeting. I am still suspicious of some of the numbers - like the Turner's Syndrome. It needs refining because not all TurnSyn people exhibit gender dysphoria tendancies... but this all is just an effort to show the public whom they may be sitting next to at a meeting, say of 400 people.

Thanks for the fix :D

Liz

But we'd have to have the meeting in the Dominican Republic for the 5ARD to show up!

Yes Kelly Ann - multi vitamins with "add' atives. Can I borrow Sally's Brownian Motion Generator ? And a cup of coco and some cookies would be nice tooooo... :blink:

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But we'd have to have the meeting in the Dominican Republic for the 5ARD to show up!

Yeah, the 56 meetings factors in the .4% population of Dominican Americans. Otherwise, there'd be about 4 or 5 people per meeting with 5ARD!

-Emily

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I looked at the numbers earlier when I was getting ready to leave for an appointment and I was reminded of the end of "Life, the Universe and Everything", When Arthur Dent, the sole surviving Earthman, was given the answer to the ulimate question and it was an incorrect mathmatical formula, "I always, thought that there was something fundamentally wrong with the Universe."

That was a long way to go, but when Hitchhiking through the Galaxy, there are no really short trips! Winks to Kelly. (another Adams devotee)

Love ya,

Sally

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Hi,

the numbers shows that it is more comon than people thought. To make an example. People play the lottery with a wining chance of 1 by 14 million and hope to win. But they are can't believe when their kid is a transgender.

Greetings

Nelly

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Guest Elizabeth K
Hi,

the numbers shows that it is more comon than people thought. To make an example. People play the lottery with a wining chance of 1 by 14 million and hope to win. But they are can't believe when their kid is a transgender.

Greetings

Nelly

Hey - WHAT A GREAT THOUGHT! I'm gonna steal it - you watch and see if i don't. :P

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Hey - WHAT A GREAT THOUGHT! I'm gonna steal it - you watch and see if i don't. :P

And you can believe that, she is a Koncept kleptomaniac! (I had to misspell one of them for the alliteration!)

Love ya,

Sally

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I looked at the numbers earlier when I was getting ready to leave for an appointment and I was reminded of the end of "Life, the Universe and Everything", When Arthur Dent, the sole surviving Earthman, was given the answer to the ulimate question and it was an incorrect mathmatical formula, "I always, thought that there was something fundamentally wrong with the Universe."

That was a long way to go, but when Hitchhiking through the Galaxy, there are no really short trips! Winks to Kelly. (another Adams devotee)

Love ya,

Sally

The question to the ultimate answer of life the universe and everything (the answer being 42) is "What do you get when you multiply 6 by 9," and was found by throwing pieces from a scrabble board. Scrabble boards have 13 by 13 cells, and in base 13, 6*9=42!!! Someone asked Douglass Adams this (I figured it out on my own first), and his response is "What's base 13," so either its a coincidence or he was being tricky (I'm not sure which I'd prefer). The other interesting thing about the answer to the ultimate question of life the universe and everything is that if you add up the letters in D. Adams (4+1+4+1+13+19), you get 42!!

Anyways, I love that series if you can't tell!

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The question to the ultimate answer of life the universe and everything (the answer being 42) is "What do you get when you multiply 6 by 9," and was found by throwing pieces from a scrabble board. Scrabble boards have 13 by 13 cells, and in base 13, 6*9=42!!! Someone asked Douglass Adams this (I figured it out on my own first), and his response is "What's base 13," so either its a coincidence or he was being tricky (I'm not sure which I'd prefer). The other interesting thing about the answer to the ultimate question of life the universe and everything is that if you add up the letters in D. Adams (4+1+4+1+13+19), you get 42!!

In an interview Douglas Adamas was ask if he would write it the same again or change something. He answered that he make a mistake. The correct answer would be 43 instead of 42.

Greetings

Nelly

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Guest Kelly Ann

Oh Oh...there goes Liz...there goes the neighborhood. Careful Nelly, Liz is a terrific open field runner...and she's gotten another idea idea to proof...it looks like she's gonna RUUuuuunnn with it. Kelly Ann

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Guest Elizabeth K

Nelly - Kelly

OMG other Doug Adams fans - who else you love?

Fantasy - sci fi is my passion (well second passion - this TS stuff kinda trumps everything somehow)

Neill Gaeman? Terry Pratchart? Jack L. Chaulker? I know I am murdering their name spellings... Charles deLint?

ooops there goes the thread!

Liz

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Guest Jackson
Nelly - Kelly

OMG other Doug Adams fans - who else you love?

Terry Pratchart?

ooops there goes the thread!

Liz

I'm not that big into sci-fi and fantasy, but you had to mention the name Terry Pratchett. I really liked the Douglas Adams' books. Read them back in junior high.

But have y'all read Terry Pratchett's book Monsterous Regiment? It's great. One of my favorite books. As an example, you know it's got to be a good book if it's in a sci-fi universe, but someone has a flashback to Vietnam.

Darn it. All these years I thought the answer to everything was 42.

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Guest Leah1026
Need some help here - so if you see anything that can add to or correct the following, please let me know.

<snip>

Transsexualism - this is all over the graph. Studies indicate 20,000 transsexuals, post op , live in the USA. Some sources show up to 60,000 which include the transitioning. Another source shows 1/30,000 people are MTF and 1/100,000 are FTM. I also see sources showing that better figures including European statistics show a more likelyhood that 1/2400 is a better number, and the numbers of actual diagnosed transsexuals are increassing at a number of 14% increase per year. The estimate in some sources show a probable incidence of as much as 1/350 are transsexual, mostly undiagnosed.

If there are 60,000 transsexual in the USA population rounded to 350 million, then the number is about 1/58,000. If there are 20,000 post op, the number is 1/175,000.

According to the latest study by Lynn Conway the number for people born transsexual is approximately 1:500. Here’s a link to her site:

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/...ml#anchor635615

and a link to the page that details her study:

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TSprevalence.html

Hope this helps.

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  • 2 months later...
Guest Phaedrus

Interesting order-of-magnitude estimations! Does anyone have any, even ballpark, estimation of how many transgenders, especially MTF, transition all the way through GRS? I can foresee some issues if one did not. Womens' restrooms, okay; womens' gym locker rooms (if they are open as are mens') maybe not. Intimate relationships, and I'm sure there are a boat load more such situations I haven't considered yet.

Still working my way through the process with "thought experiments" as I'm *very* new to identifying as trans. Starting facial electrolysis tomorrow, though. Transitioning further or not, I'll be *so* glad to be rid of all that throwback to more primitive times! No offense meant to those not believing in evolution of species.

Thanks!

Be well, all.

Phaedrus

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Guest Little Sara
Need some help here - so if you see anything that can add to or correct the following, please let me know.

I am trying to see how we fit into the world (DUH - WE ALL WANNA KNOW THAT) No people, statistically. I have tried to use the few research books I can find and the WikiPedia online.

Gender related birth disorders, I read that 1/20,000 births are where the gender cannot be assigned immediately - I can't find the source

Intersex (a term which I find the 'intersex' don't like - they are trying to be defined as DSD - Disorders of Sexual Development)

Klinefelter Syndrome - occurs in 1 per 500 males but usually goes undetected (an XXY genetic person) seems high

Hermaphrodite - extremely rare but I cannot find an occurance rate

AIS (Androggen Insensitivity Syndrome) - 1/20,000 births - (feminization of the XY genetic person)

Turner's Syndrome - 1/2500 females - some case lead to masculinization of the XX genetic person

5ARD (five alpha-reductace Deficiency) Dominican Republic specific genetic disorder - 1/90 males - feminization of the XY genetic person

Cross dressing - 1/1000 males - I can't find the source

Transsexualism - this is all over the graph. Studies indicate 20,000 transsexuals, post op , live in the USA. Some sources show up to 60,000 which include the transitioning. Another source shows 1/30,000 people are MTF and 1/100,000 are FTM. I also see sources showing that better figures including European statistics show a more likelyhood that 1/2400 is a better number, and the numbers of actual diagnosed transsexuals are increassing at a number of 14% increase per year. The estimate in some sources show a probable incidence of as much as 1/350 are transsexual, mostly undiagnosed.

If there are 60,000 transsexual in the USA population rounded to 350 million, then the number is about 1/58,000. If there are 20,000 post op, the number is 1/175,000.

Homosexual - 2 to 7% according to sources - assumption 2/100 = 70,000,000 in the USA

So in an assembly of 400 people - statistically

8 will be homosexual (includes GLB) - up to 28 if using the high number

It will take two more meetings to have a cross dresser attend

It will take another 145 meetings before a transsexual will attend - and it is three times more likely that person will be MTF - but there is only a 1 in 3

chance that person will be post op

It is statistically insignificant any Intersex will attend as it would require at least 10,000 more meetings - EXCEPT for Klienfelter & Turners Syndrome

which surprising shows two more meetings and 60 more meetings respectively, before a male who is also female, and a female who is really a

male, will attend.

Golly? Amazing - is this correct?

I got other numbers myself:

Gay/lesbian/bisexual/queer identified 5-10% of population.

Cross-dresser about 10% of male population (as the opposite is not considered cross-dressing anyways).

Transsexual 1/500 of MtFs and 1/500 of FtMs, 1/2500 counting surgeries done in the US (on MtFs since the FtM surgery isn't that good).

Intersex ~1-2% of all births

XXY syndrome 1/500 male births 1/??? female births (and yes there have been females with XXY, who have given birth) - very under-diagnosed.

AIS estimated at 1/20,000, seriously under-diagnosed.

Turner Mosaicism, previously called Mixed Gonadal Disgenesis estimated at I have no idea, but pretty rare somewhat. Rarer than Turner itself. Turner Mosaicism is Turner syndrome with another karyotype, such as XO/XY or XO/XX for example. Incredibly underdiagnosed, next to no information available.

So in a 400 people assembly:

20 to 40 would be gay, lesbian, bisexual or queer identified

20 would be cross-dressers

4 to 8 would be intersex people

0.4 would be MtF and 0.4 would be FtM (0.8 trans person total) - 0.08 would be post-op MtFs

0.4 would be XXY and raised as male, ??? would be XXY and raised as female

0.02 would have AIS (probably more)

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Guest Little Sara
Interesting order-of-magnitude estimations! Does anyone have any, even ballpark, estimation of how many transgenders, especially MTF, transition all the way through GRS? I can foresee some issues if one did not. Womens' restrooms, okay; womens' gym locker rooms (if they are open as are mens') maybe not. Intimate relationships, and I'm sure there are a boat load more such situations I haven't considered yet.

Still working my way through the process with "thought experiments" as I'm *very* new to identifying as trans. Starting facial electrolysis tomorrow, though. Transitioning further or not, I'll be *so* glad to be rid of all that throwback to more primitive times! No offense meant to those not believing in evolution of species.

Thanks!

Be well, all.

Phaedrus

In the US, about 1/2500, compared to 1/500 MtFs. So it would be about 20% who get surgery.

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Guest Nelly

Hi,

you can also try to count it on the other way around. How much people a normal person knows? How many of them are known transgender? I do not know how much people I know but I already know 2 transgender (this forum not counting). So it must be possible to get a number.

Greetings

Nelly

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The single biggest factor in all statistics dealing with Transgender issues is the fact that we do not know the true number of transgendered people.

How long have each of us denied this condition even to ourselves?

Do you think that while pretending to the world that you never cross dressed or imagined yourself as the 'opposite sex' - of course you wouldn't!

So the numbers are always low, but by how much?

We can never know!

Even the horrendous suicide numbers are low, because some have committed suicide without ever telling anyone.

Did you ever wonder when you heard about a high school senior who committed suicide 'without any reason', good grades, good friends lots of extra curricular activities - maybe just trying to be the perfect son or daughter but knowing that they are somehow just wrong and pressures about it make them take this way out without ever telling anyone.

As high as some of the numbers may appear, they can never be accurate because of society's views.

As society became more tolerant of Gays the number seemed to explode - some said they were recruiting (you know the type) and all that really happened was that the thousands and thousands that had been in the closet, came out - we will never know how many others have remained in their closets because they still don't trust society.

Love ya,

Sally

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Guest Little Sara

The 1/30,000 and 1/100,000 numbers are very old numbers of 'approved surgery' (to certain places, by certain doctors), counting the whole population.

So since they don't count non-ops or pre-ops, and since they don't count post-ops who went elsewhere than the medically-approved death centers like CAMH, it's bound to be incredibly underestimating. 1/30,000 also dates back to the 60s.

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