Uh-Oh!

[JJ]

Sometimes when I'm doing something or hiking threads compose themselves in my head. Most stay right there too.

Today it was about belief in God and simplistic. Something to the effect that if I believe in God and am wrong there is no harm done except maybe passing up a few pleasures and possibly having a more disciplined and rewarding life but if I don't believe and am wrong then I'm in deep trouble.

When this verse suddenly intruded rather forcefully in my head.

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you"

Uh-oh.Not much wiggle room there is there?

Christianity just jumped up got me. Think maybe I have some work to do.

Isn't easy is it?

Johnny

[Guest Amanda Whyte]

No it's not Johnny. One thing that helps though is God loves us and wants us to end up in Heaven. I dont think He is a lot more understanding than a lot of people give Him credit for.

[Charlize]

The more we can respond with love the more peace we find. The more we hate the more it grows and just fills our world cutting us off from any peace. A very strong thought Johnny. I think it takes a lifetime of practice.

Hugs,

Charlie

[Guest ~Brenda~]

My views of God may differ from most, but my take on the passage that you quoted Johnny is exactly the primary message that God has always promoted......selflessness.

To be able to see past one's adversaries/enemies and to be able to treat them with love demonstrates the greatness of Divine Love.

Love

Brenda

[Carolyn Marie]

Christianity, like most religions, has lots of good things to say. It is in our interpretation that things too often get bollixed up. I hope you find enlightenment in the quote that intruded on your reveries, Johnny.

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

[Sally]

Johnny,

Christianity is not really that difficult in theory - it is being put into practice that the problems arise.

There is ONE very simple message and that is love - very simple and here is the best part, God loves us and unlike the way that we give love - his is unconditional.

Have you ever tried to give unconditional love to anyone?

Let's say that you are dating someone very special to you and one night they cancel on a date - admit it you question why, what are they doing instead and who are they doing it with - just that thought alone has put a condition on your love - "I love you as long as nothing else ever comes up - no matter what it is."

This concept is especially difficult for fundamentalists because they have a list in their Bibles that I have never seen - mine says to love everyone but theirs seem to have an index of who to hate and who to fear.

Unconditional love is very hard to give, we can try and at least put as few conditions as possible on it.

Love thy neighbor as thyself - love ya, neighbor,

Sally

[Guest KimberlyF]

I have come to many of the same thoughts. I don't care if I'm right or wrong as a Christian. I don't care if the New Testament is just a bunch of fables, though I accept them as truth. There are lessons to be learned much like stories such as the tortoise and the hare.

I have never read the bible even in my times of most self-doubt and thought that Jesus was someone who spread violence or hate. He preached peace and love and forgiveness-there was nothing we could do up until our last breath that we could not be forgiven if we were truly sorry.

Humans are flawed. Human religion is flawed. My job as a Christian isn't to be a Catholic, even though that may be the sign hanging over my doors. I see my goal as to act more Christlike. I am very much lacking.

Let's say that you are dating someone very special to you and one night they cancel on a date - admit it you question why, what are they doing instead and who are they doing it with - just that thought alone has put a condition on your love - "I love you as long as nothing else ever comes up - no matter what it is."

I don't think this example works. This to me shows self-doubt of the person stood up. Most of us have self-doubts at time. Why would X want to be with Y instead of me???? How we feel about the person who canc. the date will differ from person to person. I don't think the majority of mentally healthy people will withhold love because someone is spending time with someone else.

This concept is especially difficult for fundamentalists because they have a list in their Bibles that I have never seen - mine says to love everyone but theirs seem to have an index of who to hate and who to fear.

I have come out to a few fundamentalists and a few agnostics. I have had zero issues of acceptance with the fundamentalists from day 1. After 7 years, I have drifted apart from an agnostic. She kept trying to change my mind and the things I said to her made her angry. I was an insult to women.

Also, just my opinion, but a discussion on who some Christians hate and fear might be better left outside the Christianity safe haven?

[VickySGV]

This scripture that Johnny quoted, like all that Jeshua Bar Yousef (Jesus) is reported to have said, and possibly more things we have no record of, was meant to be directed inward at our own personal lives to restore our relation with God and all that that can mean. If I apply that Scripture to Johnny, Sally, Kim, or anyother person, I become a tyrant over their live, and a judge above them. I cannot apply it to them, I must apply it to my own life and as with the Elements of Holy Communion take it within where it will become a true part of me. Christians, myself included, become terrible when we try to GIVE God to other people, like God is a posession only we have, instead of seeking the God within all our fellow beings that was there "in their mothers womb" and has been with the world since the first Song Of Creation was sung.

[JJ]

True Vicky. For me all God asks we give to others is respect for their mutual humanity and love. That is in fact from my perspective what Christ was showing us-he didn't pick the church leaders and toe the line types as his apostles after all. Rather they were very human and flawed people and he loved and forgave them even so.

His condemnation was actually saved for those who condemned others. Or so it appears to me

Johnny

[Guest KimberlyF]

His condemnation was actually saved for those who condemned others. Or so it appears to me

He did have some harsh words for the leaders in the temple, but still demonstrated from forgiving the thief on the cross that it was never too late to change and with the transformation and later importance in the early church of St. Paul, who had been killing people who followed Jesus, that he could forgive anything.

[Guest Motormouth18]

My translation of that particular verse is "be tolerate and accepting of other people who have different views as you". I think that being tolerate and accepting is a form of love.