Just Curious...

[Guest Eagledancer]

My SO keeps asking me if I have expored this with anyone here, and she keeps getting frustrated that I haven't. So here's the story and I wonder if anyone has had a similar incident or know someone that has.

I have a pain specialist that periodically injects my back to control the pain. About 4 years ago, he scheduled me to have injections throughout my lower spine including my sacral nerves. He felt that it would be better if he gave me more sedation. My SO is always allowed in the surgery suite I guess because I am a physician, and it was no different on this day. During the procedure, the x-ray tech guided the flouroscope so that the procedure could be done under visual guidance. My SO said that as the pictures began changing as he repositioned on the pelvis region, my doctor had a shocked look on his face. He asked the tech for a new picture. When he asked for the third or fourth re-shot, the tech looked at the screen as well as the nurses in the room. One of the nurses asked, "What is that?" To which the x-ray tech said, "That's a Bubba stick!" My SO then concentrated on the screen herself and there it was - my elusive pride and joy. She said she was so confused because there is nothing there to the naked eye but it's energy was enough to show up that day. She was also embarrased because everyone turned their eyes to her.

When i came to, my SO was out having a cigarette, but I had 3 very helpful and curious nurses offering to help me get dressed. I didn't know what had happened obviously, but I was dumbfounded because I never had a need for help to get dressed before. When my SO returned, she was shocked that I was dressed. I told her that the nurses insisted on helping me and that they were a tad bit toughy-feely in the process. My SO would just say that she knew why but wouldn't tell me there. When I heard the story, all I could say was, "I hope it made me proud!" The answer was 'most definitely'. On my follow-up, I asked the doctor if something peculiar had show up on the films. He turned red while he thumbed through my chart to 'discover' that the films had apparently been lost! I was hoping such because who would believe that those films with a penis belonged to a biological female. He had no choice but to destroy them. That is the only procedure I have had that went that low down my back and is the only one that doesn't have films!

The recent surveys showing that 60+% of FTM have "phantom penis syndrome" are so interesting to me. I wonder if they have more than a phantom. Maybe the energy is there and could be documented just as mine actually was - well so to speak. If I told this to people, I would get stranger looks than I already do. There is at least 1 doctor, 1 x-ray tech, 3 nurses and my SO that can attest to the fact that it happened. If somehow we could get the research community to think this is possible and do some flouroscopic (soft tissue studies) pelvic studies on FTM's with "phantom penis syndrome" and find this can happen, it would move gender dysphoria out of the psychiatric into the physical. ~Chay~

[Guest Elizabeth K]

WOW I don't know what to say! They LOST the films? - strange in itself!

[Guest Eagledancer]

They "lost" them because if the records were ever audited the doctor could not prove they were mine because of the anomaly (in fact who would believe it even in this forum) and this could result in him being sanctioned severely for record violations. Wrong information in a medical record is not tolerated, and those films would have looked mislabeled and misplaced. I applaud him for doing just what he did.

[Guest Zabrak]

Oh, I'm so immature. I just sat there for five minutes laughing at "phantom penis syndrome". LOL

Although, if the goverment cared I'm sure they would fund research more and find a lot of strange things to do with FTMs.

[Guest KageBoy171]

Oh, I'm so immature. I just sat there for five minutes laughing at "phantom penis syndrome". LOL

Hahahahahahahaha!!! XD

nice.

I can't believe I sat there for five minutes trying to think of what SO stood for. -___-

That's really odd. I have never heard of PPS before.

[Guest Kelly Ann]

Hi ED...I'm not laughing. It's a well known fact that amputee's have phantom limb syndrome...why would this be different? I worked in a veterinary hospital for over 9 years and took LOTS of x-rays, I made the chart for the machine we had which was 300Ma, and there can be anomalous stuff that gets photo'ed. I was taken into a viewing room two years ago on a suspected broken ankle (my SO's...we were doing the Tango..REALLY...I threw her up and caught her...twisting happened...KaBoom...onto the floor, oops, hours later...5 a.m. in the E.R.) and he was convinced she was ok...I really looked at it and there's ever so slight of an overlap...more x-rays...1 green-stick tarsal, three flange fractures...I'm hardly any sort of expert anymore either. I think they all saw what they saw, I wouldn't attempt to explain it otherwise. Cool...and believeable, to me, Kelly Ann

[Guest Jackson]

What could happen to make this a little more palpable for the general public would be to start doing flouroscopes on amputation patients. It would really be a good thing (in my opinion) to be able to have some more research in the phantom limb syndrome especially since it deals in pain (in amputation) and in strong medications.

How does one explain the pain associated with phantom limb syndrome really? And this would really be no different other than there is no pain involved since no nerves had been cut in this instance.

Very thought-provoking idea.

[Guest Nelly]

Hi,

to understand right, you get some x-ray pictures of none existing body parts? This I can not believe. So I would suggest to go to a x-ray doctor and get pictures from your lower body. Stay the hole time with the pictures that they will not lost again.

As you discribe the procedure, they use a digital x-ray system that show the picture on a computer screen? So I would suggest also to get pictures with different type of system. Than you know if it was only an artefact of the system or your real none existing body part.

Greetings

Nelly

[Guest Naomi Stardust]

Jackson,

my understanding of phantom limb pain is that you're constantly in pain for so long that basically your brain memorizes it

color sound and sensation is produced in your brain responding to outside stimuli

the healing process is longer for amputations, and drugs only separate the pain your brain produces from your awareness of the pain

so you still experience pain, but you don't notice it, and your brain still memorizes it and reproduces later it from time to time

(thank you Nova and PBS and insomnia, now people think i'm smart)

Zabrak,

PPS is no laughing matter, i'm looking forward to someday telling you that from experience

(alright, the first time i heard of it, i laughed too...)

Eagledancer,

you're a physician? that makes your Avatar even cooler!

what a cool x-ray, too bad you don't still have it...

alright boys, i'm leaving, you can come out of the lockers now

[Guest Jackson]

Jackson,

my understanding of phantom limb pain is that you're constantly in pain for so long that basically your brain memorizes it

color sound and sensation is produced in your brain responding to outside stimuli

the healing process is longer for amputations, and drugs only separate the pain your brain produces from your awareness of the pain

so you still experience pain, but you don't notice it, and your brain still memorizes it and reproduces later it from time to time

(thank you Nova and PBS and insomnia, now people think i'm smart)

I'm wondering (mind you, I've not done that much study of it) that the reason that people who have amputations experience phantom limb pain is because the nerves have been cut. I do know people who have had amputations such as diabetic patients that were not in pain prior to the amputation itself. It was after the amputation that they began to experience pain. I have had at least one patient who had a hemicorpectomy (a very scary proposition) who had not been in pain prior to the surgery, but has been in horrible pain since then.

I also was idly thinking that this may explain why people with the "phantom penis syndrome" was either because there are no actual nerves present that were amputated or there were no actual physical nerve fibers there to begin with.

I just find it very interesting that one group of people experience pain while another group of people do not and why that is. I always ask the question "Why?". I also would be very interested to find out exactly what the percentage of amputation patients do actually experience phantom limb pain.

Just a few thoughts from someone who knows just enough to be dangerous.

[Guest Evan_J]

Oh, I'm so immature. I just sat there for five minutes laughing at "phantom penis syndrome". LOL

Although, if the goverment cared I'm sure they would fund research more and find a lot of strange things to do with FTMs.

(**Smacks you on the head with the big fish)

Phantom penis syndrome is actually experience by a fair number of your brothers. Quite of few of 'em actually masterbate "with" that appendage. (Figure that one out lol)

[Guest Leah1026]

On my follow-up, I asked the doctor if something peculiar had show up on the films. He turned red while he thumbed through my chart to 'discover' that the films had apparently been lost!

I'm an x-ray tech!

Are you telling me this place isn't digital? Like 90% of hospitals are digital now. And if they are digital there is no such thing as "lost films" because it's all on the computer! If they are digital, go to the radiology department and request a CD of the images, they should be able to burn you one. Even if they aren't digital the images should have been saved in the C-arms memory. I'd go back and ask for a reprint if they are still using film. Usually the C-arm can store a weeks worth of images.

Hope this helps!

[Guest Zabrak]

*Is smacked by a fish*

Ok, ok, I'm sorry.

That is strange, Evan.

This is a interesting thread although I'm not one for this type of discussion. This isn't my nerd field!(uh oh Zabrak made another joke *runs from thread*)

[Guest Irielle]

About phantom pain. Remember that pain is interpreted in the brain and not in the limb. If you give yourself a paper cut on your finger the pain isn't interpreted in your finger - it's done in your brain. Your nervous system tells you it's your finger that's affected and hurts and experiences the pain but that's not where the basis of pain resides.

Now let's say you've had a leg amputated. You now have a stump and the nerves that once ran all the way down through your leg to your foot are shorter, they stop at the amputation site. That includes the nerve fibers that transmit pain. If those nerves are stimulated by something, maybe pressure or inflammation or whatever, they will transmit their impulses to the brain and the brain will interpret this as pain because it's the pain fibers transmitting the information. Pain is experienced in the brain, the fiber transmitting the impulse USED to run to the big toe. The brain doesn't know the nerve has been cut at the amputation level but knows that this fiber comes from the big toe. So you wind up having pain in your big toe that isn't there anymore. Ouch!

I have occasional phantom pain (not from an amputation, thank goodness) and it can be truly debilitating when it hits.

Wow, I"ve never heard of this PPS. I would love to see that X-ray

[Guest Jackson]

Irielle, that's kind of how I was thinking of it. I think I need to do a little more research on this.

[Guest My_Genesis]

That is really cool, I have to stop hanging around here, it makes me want to get a bunch of tests

And what Evan said is true...it's like phantom j**king off syndrome

I think I've had PPS most of my life....I might also have PMGSS (phantom male g-spot syndrome). lol. unless it's physical and not psychological. Which is yet another test I'm waiting on money-wise to get done..