Thinking of Going Back To Church

[Guest Jenn348]

I went full time in September, so I'm about 4 months in However, I haven't stepped a foot in the door of the church in that time.

Part of me has wanted to start going again for various reasons. I want my family to be happier, and church does them a lot of good in that respect. Part of me wants to get involved again for my own happiness. I also think that the church will never change if nobody like us ever gets in their faces. If we're too easy to ignore, they'll just ignore us

I don't want to get confrontational, but if they get to know me again and are forced to humanize me, they'll have a harder time being judgmental (at least some of them).

OTOH, it's frightening. Will I get confronted by anybody? What if I have to pee? (I have ZERO problems with public restrooms these days, but random strangers don't know I'm trans as I pass fairly well now) I've also been told I cannot attend relief society, and there's no way I'm going to priesthood meeting.

Maybe I'll just attend sacrament a few times and see how it goes.

There's also the issue of non-validation. Strangers respect my gender identity and don't question who I am, but up-tight religious people who know who they think I was before are a different matter. I don't tolerate misgendering very well (who does?), and I'm reasonably sure I'll get called "him" or "sir" or "brother" going back. I'm debating whether to ignore it, do something funny like misgender the person in return or ask them who they are talking to, or politely tell them to stop being a douchenugget.

Like I said, I'm frightened, but I feel like it's something that needs to be done. </rant></vent>

[Drea]

Fundamentally there nothing wrong with that. Is the timing right? Are you ready? Maybe you need some more time to have your own confidence up.

I feel your motives are generally good. Specifically going for your own happiness.

Now you mention getting in their faces which has connotations of being confrontational. Then you said you don't want to be confrontational so I am going to assume use of "in their faces" you really just meant being present and around them which I think is a good way of humanizing the issue. Being confrontational will likely have predictable negative reactions.

I don't know what kind of church this is you wish to tend. I spend lots of times around Christians, define myself as one and find the prejudices, the assumptions that one will be received by total anger disturbing. I am sure there may be the odd Christian out there who might but when faced with a real human being, particularly one that can be a decent human being, can smile...and more than anything else not take oneself too seriously.

Understand you are a bit of an anomaly, out of the norm, an oddball. I take the attitude to go with it. I deal with this because to me it is a medical issue. To me it is not some social cause I am not trying to smite every Christian down cause there are some beliefs that I don't agree with. This is my issue. I don't demand they change their beliefs, just respect me. Their beliefs will change when I have won them over.

Again this is my issue, my medical issue,not their issue and seeing it from their eyes, yes I am weird. But so there are lots of weird people in the world. The guy with no teeth, the woman with protuberant eyes, etc. Of course we all want to be seen at the most beautiful, but reality is, everyone has their faults. So what? My uncle was a total cook, but also was a great person to be around.

So be that great person to be around. Be someone that shows this trans stuff has helped you become a better person. Impress them so that when they speak among themselves where they thing "hey he is better this way". I intentionally used the wrong pronoun cause, it happens. Eventually such changes.

Now since you seem to be planning to attend your regular services, with your family, etc, I think that is great but it does complicate things, but on the other hand, if your family is supportive it can help.

There are some folks like Jenni_S who have actually do work for the church school. Same one she went to school at so if you get a chance you may want to get her thoughts.

Good luck with it.

[VickySGV]

If you are going for spiritual worship, that is one thing. A service dedicated to Divine worship draws people together and unless separated by hard walls, even erases the gender differences in small ways. Personal spirituality left at its own and not directed at teaching other people, gives status even if some see it unorthodox.

If you are going to make a point or a protest, that is another. Even in my own church, people with "a mission" make the song a little less than harmonious. Avoid the "watchdogs" of propriety until things have had a chance. Contact should be as an example of who you are to you, not who you are to them.

Your chances of finding peace for yourself are decent, but for making water flow up hill, you may have trouble.

[Guest Jenn348]

Yeah, I worded that poorly When I said "in their faces" I didn't mean to imply confrontation, just mere presence.

If we are seen, we have to be dealt with. If we are unseen, we are easy to ignore and dehumanize.

[Guest Brenda Hailey]

I am probably the worst person to speak on this topic, but you simply cant force "anyone" to humanize you, especially a church that may have religious beliefs that are contrary to your very nature.

This could be a very painful long road for you, it has been my experience changing doctrine filled minds is just as hard as not being transgender anymore.

Maybe instead of changing the church you could explore other ways to worship and find happiness?

Brenda Hailey

[Guest April63]

I don't think it would be a great idea to go back, unless you go back as a new person. The church still isn't too friendly when it comes to transgender people, and coming back as transgender will only put a black mark on your record.

I don't think the bishop can actually stop you from attending relief society (the handbook doesn't say anything about that), but he can definitely make you feel ostracized by letting everyone know who you are and where you "belong".

I agree that visibility is required for change, but we need visibility that impacts the church as a whole.

April

[Miss_Y]

I'm not really sure how best to articulate my thoughts on this one.

I am an ex-mormon myself of twenty two years, it has been five years since that time. There are several reasons I'm pessimistic about your odds of being accepted by your childhood mormon ward at all.

On the matter of humanizing: According to the mormon faith all persons are a child of god, being lost in sin in the church's view isn't the same as in some faith's. I can call the example of the churches view on homosexuality which displays my personal feelings and opinions on the most likely 'outcome' of your humanizing effort. Mormonism view's homosexuality as a sin, according to the mormon faith god gives humans flaws so that they can learn to overcome them and become obedient to god. This is how they view homosexuality and I believe it is most likely how they would view you.

As for confrontations: I've heard of it yes. I didn't encounter her or notice her personally, but there was one time when a bit of rumour passed around, I heard from a couple people, of a time when a translady former member had revisited my old ward. I don't know if there was much confrontation, but one member took it upon himself to tell her if I remember correctly essntially "Don't you dare confuse these children". I don't know if it's a frequent thing, or what the odds are, but I woudl say it's possible, if I don't know the odds.

I hate to say I would recommend using the mens room if you want to avoid the possibility of confrontation or trouble.

No surprise from me about the gendered meetings. Mormonism is a pretty heteronormative society. It's my personal opinion that this may never change.

It's my opinion there's a very small chance of you being accepted as a woman in any mormon ward, much less your childhood ward. I would place my focus more on my personal relationships than the ward, just my opinion.

Mormons aren't violent in my opinion and experience, but I think it more likely they would try to make you see the error of your ways. I don't want to be a pessimist, but it seems more realistic a view to me.

[Charlize]

I have attended church rarely since i was a child unless forced to while at a boarding school. Part of me craves the fellowship but i often do not share the same vision of a higher power and morality that is put forth. I feel that as i age i may start attending but only if there is acceptance at the church i want to attend. The local Protestant Church has actually invited my spouse and i. Perhaps we will go at some point.

Is there some reason why you could never go to an accepting church? Many do not postalize and believe so strongly that they have the only answer. Perhaps if you cannot be accepted in your old church you should simply find one where you are accepted. I know many here at Laura's who love their churches and have even joined the other women in making coffee and cookies etc. The fellowship we feel is often as important as the religious practice.

Hugs,

Charlie

[JJ]

My church surprised me by being my biggest supporters. They used the correct pronouns and made an extra effort to let me know that I was wanted and valued as myself there. It was there that correct pronouns were used publicly for the first time. It's a UMC church and there are no bars how I may participate as a church member. They even asked me to be a shepherd in their living nativity.

What has surprised me even more is the friendliness and acceptance of my more fundamentalist neighbors. Some were accepting from the beginning and some a little more wary. I just smiled and stayed friendly and acted as though all was well. And yesterday as I hiked down the road two different sets of neighbors made sure I saw them waving with big smiles and one walked over to greet me and asl how it was going-the one who was most uncomfortable in the beginning. these are people who watched the while process too.

For me I believe what made the difference is that I never ever use those heavily emotion weighted T words-trans , TG or anything like that. I explain I had a condition where my brain formed male and have never been happy or able to find peace as I was. So I am living my life as myself and not trying to be someone else. I don't apologize or demand either one. I just go on with my life as though all is normal. For me it is after all. I can't say it wil work under all circumstances but it has here in this most conservative area in an infamously conservative state. I was terrified about what would happen to me and my family. What happened is that I saw the power of attitude and learned that when you bring it out people are far nicer in general than I would ever have believed.

One other thing I did in the beginning was acknowledge that people were uncomfortable with it and that it was okay to feel that way.. It is a very difficult thing to understand so if people are uneasy or confused I understand. Never have to do that anymore after 3 years. It has been a slow careful process but I think it can be done in most places. And that you can find a church home. Though maybe not the one you have always known. Even so you won't know till you try. But attitudes the key.

Johnny

[Guest Jenn348]

I'm not really sure how best to articulate my thoughts on this one.

I am an ex-mormon myself of twenty two years, it has been five years since that time. There are several reasons I'm pessimistic about your odds of being accepted by your childhood mormon ward at all.

On the matter of humanizing: According to the mormon faith all persons are a child of god, being lost in sin in the church's view isn't the same as in some faith's. I can call the example of the churches view on homosexuality which displays my personal feelings and opinions on the most likely 'outcome' of your humanizing effort. Mormonism view's homosexuality as a sin, according to the mormon faith god gives humans flaws so that they can learn to overcome them and become obedient to god. This is how they view homosexuality and I believe it is most likely how they would view you.

As for confrontations: I've heard of it yes. I didn't encounter her or notice her personally, but there was one time when a bit of rumour passed around, I heard from a couple people, of a time when a translady former member had revisited my old ward. I don't know if there was much confrontation, but one member took it upon himself to tell her if I remember correctly essntially "Don't you dare confuse these children". I don't know if it's a frequent thing, or what the odds are, but I woudl say it's possible, if I don't know the odds.

I hate to say I would recommend using the mens room if you want to avoid the possibility of confrontation or trouble.

No surprise from me about the gendered meetings. Mormonism is a pretty heteronormative society. It's my personal opinion that this may never change.

It's my opinion there's a very small chance of you being accepted as a woman in any mormon ward, much less your childhood ward. I would place my focus more on my personal relationships than the ward, just my opinion.

Mormons aren't violent in my opinion and experience, but I think it more likely they would try to make you see the error of your ways. I don't want to be a pessimist, but it seems more realistic a view to me.

This isn't really my childhood ward. I moved with family during college. Either way, they know me though.

I'm not really expecting acceptance from a lot of people, but I do hope that others in the future will be helped by the experience. Once they realize that I'm not a child molester or otherwise scary (there are several women in the ward who are more manly looking than me LOL), and once people have a chance to adjust things may go better for me. I also hope that in the future when another teen comes out gay or maybe even trans that people will treat him or her better.

I've already been told by the stake pres that I'm not going to be allowed to go to RS, but he may change his mind later. With that and the potential bathroom issue, I'm just going to stay with sacrament for now.

[Guest Jenn348]

I'm not really sure how best to articulate my thoughts on this one.

I am an ex-mormon myself of twenty two years, it has been five years since that time. There are several reasons I'm pessimistic about your odds of being accepted by your childhood mormon ward at all.

On the matter of humanizing: According to the mormon faith all persons are a child of god, being lost in sin in the church's view isn't the same as in some faith's. I can call the example of the churches view on homosexuality which displays my personal feelings and opinions on the most likely 'outcome' of your humanizing effort. Mormonism view's homosexuality as a sin, according to the mormon faith god gives humans flaws so that they can learn to overcome them and become obedient to god. This is how they view homosexuality and I believe it is most likely how they would view you.

As for confrontations: I've heard of it yes. I didn't encounter her or notice her personally, but there was one time when a bit of rumour passed around, I heard from a couple people, of a time when a translady former member had revisited my old ward. I don't know if there was much confrontation, but one member took it upon himself to tell her if I remember correctly essntially "Don't you dare confuse these children". I don't know if it's a frequent thing, or what the odds are, but I woudl say it's possible, if I don't know the odds.

I hate to say I would recommend using the mens room if you want to avoid the possibility of confrontation or trouble.

No surprise from me about the gendered meetings. Mormonism is a pretty heteronormative society. It's my personal opinion that this may never change.

It's my opinion there's a very small chance of you being accepted as a woman in any mormon ward, much less your childhood ward. I would place my focus more on my personal relationships than the ward, just my opinion.

Mormons aren't violent in my opinion and experience, but I think it more likely they would try to make you see the error of your ways. I don't want to be a pessimist, but it seems more realistic a view to me.

I'm also not worried about violence, either. I can throw it down if needed and everybody knows that I carry other force options with me, so they would probably shy away from going that route LOL

I think it highly unlikely that abuse would go beyond verbal, so it's not really an issue.

[Guest Jenn348]

SNIP

Is there some reason why you could never go to an accepting church? Many do not postalize and believe so strongly that they have the only answer. Perhaps if you cannot be accepted in your old church you should simply find one where you are accepted.

SNIP

Unlike most Christian churches, the belief systems and cultuaral elements aren't really as interchangeable. My wife and kids wouldn't be willing to go elsewhere and my family has been in the LDS church for many generations (from almost the beginning, in fact). With "far out" views on the nature of God, the eternal nature of our spiritual beings (both in the past and going forward to the next life), and other things, going to a more average Christian church just doesn't seem very appealing either. We're not the crazies that films like "The Godmakers" make us out to be, but we still are pretty different.

I think trying to fix what I already have, as impossible as that may be in reality, would be the best method for me at this point.

[Guest Jenn348]

I would also add that it appears that I have a pretty good chance at avoiding disciplinary action at this point. I provided some pretty tight documentation to show that I didn't make a "choice" to start HRT any more than a diabetic has a choice for insulin. I'll post here some more as it goes forward.

[Guest April63]

I would also add that it appears that I have a pretty good chance at avoiding disciplinary action at this point. I provided some pretty tight documentation to show that I didn't make a "choice" to start HRT any more than a diabetic has a choice for insulin. I'll post here some more as it goes forward.

That's great news. I hope it works out well for you.

April

[Guest Jenn348]

I went to church yesterday and all went well

Local leadership reiterated to me that I will face no disciplinary action because I was able to document the non-elective nature of my treatment and transition. The only downsides are no Relief Society (women's) meetings, no bathrooms and no temple recommend until this all gets sorted out. We will put in a letter to the First Presidency to get my records permanently changed to female, which would remove those limitations. As bad as the church can be on LGBT issues, I think they're being pretty reasonable at this point.

I went to both sacrament and sunday school yesterday and had no bad comments from anybody. For years, church leadership at all levels have been hammering on treating people well at church, so it appears it's paying off. There are several ladies in the ward who are very supportive and several asked my wife when they'll see me at RS, so when I get to cross that bridge things should go smoothly as well.

So, in sum, nothing to fear as long as I have some patience. Things could certainly have gone far worse.

[Drea]

That is great Jenn.

Sounds like it isn't perfect, like you can't use the restroom but a step at a time sort of thing.

But from where you said you were it seemed like that isn't a key objective for you.

Regardless you have achieved what many seem to suggest is impossible. I had very positive faith for you and I am glad it worked out.