The Etiquette Of Being You...

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora, another re-hashed and slightly edited old post…

’Gender’ is complex, for example, a lesbian will normally ‘identify ’ with the ‘female’ gender, but might ‘express’ male behaviour and dress sense or visa versa for the gay effeminate male…

However, I personally feel ones gender ‘identity’ is more ‘straight’ forward…

It’s ones ‘psychogender’ [how we see ourselves internally]-something hardwired in our brains-hence creating the feeling of being ‘born into the wrong body’ and the craving to be able to do what other females/males do…

Denial - brought on by societal pressure-can wedge ones psychogender into the back of the closet so tightly that when it finally is freed it's somewhat distorted...

It’s also true, from a young age transsexual people become somewhat ‘obsessed’ with their/our gender ‘identity’…Some have no control whatsoever over how they express it physically- [behaviour wise]… …Even though for the most part, Western society imposes ‘strict’ male & female etiquette, it seems to have no major impact nor influence on some transgender children-[The M2F child, like young genetic girls, they ‘instinctively’ adopt the behaviour of older females] …Identity wise, their ‘nature’ seems to over ride societal ‘nurtured’ pressure to conform …And those with caring and understanding parents tend to thrive when being true to themselves…

However for those who have or had succumb to pressure [the late transitioner] many tend to become ‘obsessed’ not just with ‘identity’ but with the whole concept of ‘gender’ and sadly this obsession can lead some to over exaggerate what it is like to be ‘female’…For example some tend to over compensate with make-up, unnatural body gestures , flamboyant dress sense-eg, wearing high heels and mini skirt to mow the lawn[ok so I'm over exaggerating a little ] …but it's a fact many do try to compensate for past lost/suppressed gender expression…

I also believe that as time goes by many trans-people will begin to feel more comfortable and content just being themselves…And certain items of clothing will no longer have that ‘stimulating’ feminine effect that it might once have had….

The concept of gender is complex ... but gender 'identity' is ‘nature’-hardwired…Gender ‘expression’ is more fluid - a combination of nature and nurture- some young trans people have held fast in their resistance to 'societal' nurturing and managed to nurture/groom themselves...

I could be wrong but…that’s my theory anyway…

Happy Mindfulness-and may your female/male body match your male/female mind in ways most appropriate...

Metta Jendar

[Guest Little Sara]

Sounds about right to me.

Though I don't like the term gender identity.

I identify as female, not "as a woman". Gender identity seems to say we identify with a social construct (I know gender isn't entirely constructed, but it's still largely considered expression - not identity), when we identify a lot more with a biological reality.

Terms such as gender identity have not stopped the media from overemphasizing the artificialness of MtF transition, as if it was all about dresses and make-up, and the term gives them ammunition.

It's not about feminity, it's about being female and recognized as such.

It's not about gender, it's about subconscious sex (the feeling of being male or female, biologically-wise), and making the body aligned with it.

That someone might find out earlier WHAT is wrong, as opposed to having a foreign sentiment of not-belonging, means that the gender expression is only something that acts as a catalyst, it precipitates things. That's why you'll find more younger feminine MtFs (it's less true for FtMs because it's more acceptable to express themselves - gender-wise - more or less however they want pre-transition), a masculine trans woman can cope a lot longer without knowing something is amiss.

Much like a man with XXY syndrome who has few telling evident signs of his condition, but finds out at 60 that he has a XXY karyotype. Then goes "Ah that's why x or y thing happened."

[Guest Zenda]

Sounds about right to me.

Though I don't like the term gender identity.

I identify as female, not "as a woman". Gender identity seems to say we identify with a social construct (I know gender isn't entirely constructed, but it's still largely considered expression - not identity), when we identify a lot more with a biological reality.

Terms such as gender identity have not stopped the media from overemphasizing the artificialness of MtF transition, as if it was all about dresses and make-up, and the term gives them ammunition.

It's not about feminity, it's about being female and recognized as such.

It's not about gender, it's about subconscious sex (the feeling of being male or female, biologically-wise), and making the body aligned with it.

That someone might find out earlier WHAT is wrong, as opposed to having a foreign sentiment of not-belonging, means that the gender expression is only something that acts as a catalyst, it precipitates things. That's why you'll find more younger feminine MtFs (it's less true for FtMs because it's more acceptable to express themselves - gender-wise - more or less however they want pre-transition), a masculine trans woman can cope a lot longer without knowing something is amiss.

Much like a man with XXY syndrome who has few telling evident signs of his condition, but finds out at 60 that he has a XXY karyotype. Then goes "Ah that's why x or y thing happened."

Kia Ora Little Sara,

If you self identify as a female [and are in your twenties] and live in society as such, then you must also self identify as a ‘woman’ [young woman]. If for example, in society someone were to point you out by saying that ‘woman’ over there-would they be incorrect in doing so-would you be offended by the term ‘woman’?

Ok so you personally feel that the term gender ‘identity’ is misleading/incorrect…What other non complex term that the general public can easily understand do you feel should take it’s place?

John Money [who work for some time at the John Hopkins Hospital] coined the term ‘Gender Identity’

Quote: Wikipedia

"Money made the concept of gender a broader, more inclusive concept than one of male/female. Now, gender includes not only one's status as a man or a woman, but as a matter of personal recognition, social assignment, or legal determination; not only on the basis of one's genitalia but also on the basis of somatic and behavioral criteria that go beyond genital differences.

In popularised and scientifically debased usage, sex is what you are biologically; gender is what you become socially; gender identity is your own sense or conviction of maleness or femaleness; and gender role is the cultural stereotype of what is masculine and feminine…

Gender identity is one's own categorisation of one's individuality as male, female, or ambivalent as experienced in self-awareness of one's own mental processes and one's own actual behavior!"

Metta Jendar

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora Sara,

I need to correct the 'John Money' coined the term'gender identity' that I made... Psychoanalyst 'Robert Stoller' was credited with introducing the term in 1958... Money just made the term popular...Sorry if I mislead you or any readers...

Metta Jendar

[Guest Little Sara]

If you self identify as a female [and are in your twenties] and live in society as such, then you must also self identify as a ‘woman’ [young woman].

True, but that 's in our society, and it's a "female therefore woman", not a "feminine therefore woman" that shrinks like to draw.

In popularised and scientifically debased usage, sex is what you are biologically; gender is what you become socially; gender identity is your own sense or conviction of maleness or femaleness; and gender role is the cultural stereotype of what is masculine and feminine…

True, but most people think of those terms as:

Sex: genitals at birth.

Gender: feminine or masculine

Gender identity: sense of identity...as feminine or masculine

Gender role: stereotype of...feminine and masculine

From this you can conclude that maleness and femaleness are not included. Not in the typical understanding of things.

Julia Serano coined the term subconscious sex in 2008, for the sense of maleness or femaleness someone has.

[Guest Zenda]

True, but that 's in our society, and it's a "female therefore woman", not a "feminine therefore woman" that shrinks like to draw.

True, but most people think of those terms as:

Sex: genitals at birth.

Gender: feminine or masculine

Gender identity: sense of identity...as feminine or masculine

Gender role: stereotype of...feminine and masculine

From this you can conclude that maleness and femaleness are not included. Not in the typical understanding of things.

Julia Serano coined the term subconscious sex in 2008, for the sense of maleness or femaleness someone has.

Kia Ora Little Sara,

I can understand the deeper meaning of the term 'subconscious sex'[no pun intended] and it does make alot of sense, especially when used by psychiatrists and psychologists when relating to transgender people...

However don't you think the media would have even more of a field day, if they got hold of the term 'subconscious sex'? Sadly the term 'sex' in whatever form it is used, tends to conjure up the negative when connected to transgender issues-take the term trans 'sexual', some people are convinced it must have something to do with perverted 'sexual' acts.

Metta Jendar

[Guest Little Sara]

Kia Ora Little Sara,

I can understand the deeper meaning of the term 'subconscious sex'[no pun intended] and it does make alot of sense, especially when used by psychiatrists and psychologists when relating to transgender people...

However don't you think the media would have even more of a field day, if they got hold of the term 'subconscious sex'? Sadly the term 'sex' in whatever form it is used, tends to conjure up the negative when connected to transgender issues-take the term trans 'sexual', some people are convinced it must have something to do with perverted 'sexual' acts.

Metta Jendar

I prefer having negative connotation than being overly PC, being forced to use gender, and compromise myself into a realm where shrinks judge someone's transgender-ness by their feminity or masculinity - not their identity.

[Sally]

I'd like to jump in and give my take on the importance of explaining gender and sex and all other terms of the transgendered community.

Here it goes and I think that this covers it all:

Hi, I'm Sally.

That's about it - I can't effect the way anyone else sees me, feels about me or treats me, I can just avoid those that want to hurt me.

Love ya,

Sally (the only label that I like)

[Guest Zenda]

.

Here it goes and I think that this covers it all:

Hi, I'm Sally.

Love ya,

Sally (the only label that I like)

Kia Ora Sally,

But what is it that makes you think you're 'Sally' Sally?

just couldn't resist a psychoanalytical response

Metta Jendar [Or am I ???]