NY GOP Senators Block TG Bills Passage

[Carolyn Marie]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/tonymerevick/new-york-senate-blocks-ban-on-gay-conversion-therapy-transge

Carolyn Marie

[Guest Kalie Aowynn]

Well it looks like the fight is on. I find it reprehensible for a psychologist to be allowed to effectively brainwash a child into thinking they are straight or their birth gender just because they as the psychologist has a set , set of beliefs. Now it does not surprise me that in New York they would find some way to avoid taking a set of bills that might be beneficial to us to the Senate floor . Just another means of delaying the inevitable outcome.

[Guest LizMarie]

Oh it's the Republicans. Again. As usual.

[Drea]

How could this happen in the ultra liberal new York?

This article describes it only in context if conversion therapy, yet it is a broader transgender rights bill, I find it especially odd that there be objection to banning conversion therapy for gays, so my guess is objection centers on other element in the bil and think this is typical political rhetoric making it look like the it was rejected for reasons indefensible (supporting conversion therapy) to obscure the real objection.

I normally research such and get the facts but busy at the moment so see no reason why not to what the typical critics do and make criticisms without facts

Edited June 24, 2014 by Drea
I shouldn't try typing on a tablet in a hurry

[Guest KimberlyF]

One law applies to Trans. The conversion law, written by the lone gay Dem, talks of the pain that gays and lesbians experience with conversion therapy and it appears wrote a bill that just makes it illegal to use conversion therapy for sexual orientation.

[Guest Jenni_S]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

[Carolyn Marie]

I looked up the ENDA bill (S 195B-2013) on the New York Senate's web site. There are no actions listed after February of this year, so I assume that the site isn't updated frequently. However, if the bill was blocked from going to the Senate floor by the GOP leadership, it would be a procedural matter, and not necessarily listed in the bill's official roster of actions.

That is was not permitted to go to the floor for a vote is a matter of fact, not opinion. That it was done by the GOP leadership, and not the Democratic leadership, also appears to be factual, although I can't yet independently verify it.

Facts are, by their nature, not ad hominem attacks, Jenni. I know there are conservative leaning members here, and that's fine. Just say that you agree with the actions of the GOP leadership on the matter, if that is the case. The merits of ENDA, or their lack thereof, are worth debating.

Carolyn Marie

[Guest KimberlyF]

Since 2013, with this latest addition of NY I have found 10 states that have either voted down or shelved conversion bills. Of the 10, interestingly enough are these five:

Illinois both houses and Gov controlled by Dems by almost a 2-1 margin.

Maryland both houses and Gov controlled by Dems

Minnesota both houses and Gov controlled by Dems

Rhode Island both houses and Gov controlled by Dems

Washington both houses and Gov controlled by Dems

So what is the usual on this issue?

And the NY bill would make it a legal definition that gender identity is a sexual orientation, because it was written by a gay man and people aren't confused enough. So if it ever does pass, make sure when people ask if they are the same, say not at all, unless you're in NY. And it may depend on what your definition of 'transgender' is or 'is' is?

[Drea]

How is it fact that it is the "GOP Leadership" when the NY state senate is majority Democrat? Just what democrats permitted this? Lets be real here too, the typical NY state republican is more left wing than the typical Kansas democrat.

Back in 2012 there was a coalition of democrats that supported republicans and this coalition led the senate. If that is the case still it would be the coalition leadership, not the GOP that blocked it.

Even assuming that assertion that the "GOP Leadership" blocked it, the article doesn't provide reasons why the objection to letting it go to a vote. The article, focused on conversion therapy makes it seem like hey they must be for conversion therapy. That is not fact, that is rhetoric.

...the NY bill would make it a legal definition that gender identity is a sexual orientation...

If that is correct that sounds like a good reason for it not to move forward. But I really don't know the details on this one. Haven't heard anything in it so far I object to except for this thing Kimberly mentions.

[Guest LizMarie]

The NY state senate is controlled by Republicans, via the "independent Democratic Caucus" which consists of conservative Democrats whose positions largely mirror those of Republicans. These Democrats turned on their own party to cut a power deal for themselves. So let's please get our facts straight to begin with. The GOP runs the NY Senate. The GOP controls the important positions in the NY Senate. And the GOP controls 57% of the votes. Just because you tally up party affiliation doesn't it mean it actually works that way. Republicans control the NY Senate.

The NY GENDA bill was also blocked, by Republicans. So were the state DREAM act and a proposed statewide minimum wage increase. These are all consistent with national Republican party positions.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/06/21/1308556/-New-York-Senate-Blocks-State-GENDA-And-Bill-To-Protect-Minors-From-Gay-Reparative-Theapy

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/06/21/us-new-york-senate-blocks-gay-cure-ban-trans-anti-discrimination-bill/

And it was the GOP Senate leaders who refused to allow it to come to a vote.

http://www.dailynewsen.com/entertainment/new-york-senate-blocks-ban-on-gay-conversion-therapy-transgender-rights-bill-h2510674.html

I was able to find all this in about 5 minutes of looking. Rather than speculating here and trying to whitewash the actions of the GOP, you could have simply looked it up yourself. But you didn't. I find that fascinating. And I find the implications of that willful choice fascinating too.

So my original statement remains true - oh, Republicans. Again. As usual.

Just like the BS they've pulled or tried to pull in Kansas, Arizona, Louisiana, Texas, Tennessee, North and South Carolina, etc. etc., One party overwhelmingly works against trans individuals. That is the GOP. Are there anti-trans individuals in the Democratic party? Certainly, but the party as a whole does not take that perspective at the national level nor in most states. Who was the Pacific Justice Institute allied with? Republicans. Which party has had multiple candidates say that LGBT people should be stoned or otherwise put to death (here's the most recent)? Republicans. Which party tried to enshrine reparative therapy as part of its state party platform despite the AMA, APA, and APA all saying reparative therapy is unethical and harmful?? Republicans. The national and state Democratic parties have not tried to do anything remotely like that even if a few individuals in that party hold bigoted views.

Oh yeah, in Washington state, the gay conversion therapy ban got stuck in committee. A committee headed by a Republican who flatly refused to allow it to come to a vote. She simply refused, because she believes homosexuality is "sinful".

In Maryland, the sponsors of the legislation withdrew it because they became convinced that existing state law already gives the state sufficient authority to regulate the practice. They have stated they will re-introduce it if regulatory methods prove inadequate.

I could go on but I suspect that doing so will just get ignored, again, so I'm not going to bother.

But yes, it is Republicans who consistently work against trans individuals. Oh, that Medicare ban on SRS that was just lifted? Put in place 30 years ago by... a Republican (Reagan administration). The Democrats have been slow to come around but at least they are coming around. And Obama has been very supportive of us, especially given the do-nothing GOP in Congress these last few years.

That's a far cry from Republicans, like Mitt Romney, who refused to back an anti-bullying bill as governor so long as it covered bisexual and trans kids. Or Rick Perry, who just publicly stated that he thinks all LGBT people just need to not "choose" that "lifestyle". Or Mike Huckabee, who flat out deliberately tried to pass off proven false statements to raise fear about trans youths.

Anyone who objectively looks at all the data and concludes that the two parties are equivalent on trans related issues is, in my opinion, delusional.

And no, I am not going to do anymore homework for you. All of this is readily available to anyone who wants to learn the truth.

This is all I am going to say about this topic. But the evidence is overwhelming. I have literally hundreds of links to news stories, to legislative actions, to party platforms, which repeated show that the GOP is openly hostile to trans persons. All of that is readily available to anyone who wants to do the research. The question then becomes - will you do the research?

[Guest Jenni_S]

That is a response. And no, I won't do the research, because I have for more than seven years, on these issues, and for twenty plus in general. Neither party is your friend, when it comes to doing what is right for you, I've found. Rather, each will do what it thinks is most politically expedient for their own gain. It comes down to votes. Will this get us more votes at election time, or will opposition to it? Each sees different voting blocs, and what they need to do, in their opinion, to receive their votes.

And we, as a voting bloc, are no different than any other. LGBT is a few million votes, in the US, at least those that make it their number one voting priority. Same for those that oppose it as their top priority, and will make someone' stance on it as their make-or-break for a candidate. So each sees it as nothing more, nothing less. There's votes to be had. I've followed far too many questions over the years, LGBT and others, and seen endless reversals and about-faces by candidates and their parties to see it any other way.

If you went things changed, do what you can to change the voters' minds, not the politicians. The politicians follow the votes, not lead from the front; at least, for the the last 20 years, it seems. Don't wait for a law to make things better for you. As long as it's not illegal, go out there and do it. Millions already have, there's no reason you can't. You are responsible for making the changes in your own life; you can't expect a politician to do it for you. I've seen far more minds changed by people living their lives, and just being themselves, showing the example of "I'm just like you," than political convincing. People believe what they see and know.

These are, of course my personal beliefs and experiences. Others will vary. But these are what I base my living on, and it's worked pretty well for me. If you need change, be that change, show that change, live it and do it every day, until it's you; make it personal to you and to others. You'll find minds open to you, much more than any law will do.

[Guest Jennifer T]

Bravo, Jenni!

[Guest Jennifer T]

What I've learned in my (almost) 50 years is this - anyone can support any position they hold with 'facts'.

[Guest KimberlyF]

Great post, Jenni. It reminds me of something I saw posted the last day or so on Twitter.

Parker Molloy, who lives in heavily democratic Chicago, in heavily democratic Illinois writes many angry pieces in place like Advocate.com.

Yesterday, she tweeted that she doesnt have a single friend that remained from prior to 2011.

Did she hang around with all GOP members, or perhaps only others who are like minded and wish to remain outraged 24/7 will deal with that kind of life? At one point do people start really living and understand they are the single biggest thing holding themselves back?

Washington predicted the two party system would be disaster for the country. I'm not pro-GOP. I'm against the idea that any politician cares for me beyond doing the least they can do for my vote, and only then, if they think they'll need it.

I know too many racist homophobic democratic Politicians playing the game in Chicago to think otherwise. And these are people involved in state offices, federal offices and union positions.

[MaryEllen]

Politicians from both parties will say anything to get elected. They'll say what they think you want to hear. However, once elected, they don't know you. They'll vote for whatever puts the most money in their pockets. The lobbyists run this country. Money talks and the lobbyists have deep pockets. Where is Diogenes when you need him?

MaryEllen

[Guest ValerieD]

The thing is, outside of The City, NY isn't that liberal. Our rural areas (yes, we have them!) are actually very conservative. Were it not for The City, we'd be a swing state.