STUDY: Religious Counseling Associated With Higher LGB Suicide Risk

[Guest LizMarie]

"Lesbian, gay, and bisexual people who sought mental health counseling from a religious or spiritual adviser were more likely to subsequently attempt suicide than those who sought no treatment at all, says a new study from the Williams Institute.

The study, released by the think tank today, found that LGB people who received therapy from a medical or mental health professional were no less likely to attempt suicide than those who did not seek help, but assistance from faith-based counselors was associated with higher suicide risk."

STUDY: Religious Counseling Associated With Higher LGB Suicide Risk

Two points from this:

• Professional therapy does not seem to reduce attempts to commit suicide.
• Therapy from religious counselors increases attempts to commit suicide.

A rather unexpected conclusion?

Also, note that trans folk were not included in this study but this raises questions about therapy among trans individuals as well.

Full study download available here. (Membership required to download.)

[Guest KimberlyF]

I'm not paying for the study, but blacks are the highest group to seek help from a religious or spiritual advisor, and are also the most marginalized and among LGBT have regularly scored highest rate of attempted suicide vs. whites and latenos?

[VickySGV]

Kimberly has made my point on this. I also have no desire to purchase the article and the fact that it points toward the African American community is to me the key, rather than religion based counseling in and of itself. I have been to several activities over the past two years where the majority of the participants were African American, and the common theme has been the lack of counseling resources, and the quality and competency of the resources that are available.

[Charlize]

I'm not sure of the exact meaning of this research but it seemed that they were quite clear with this statement: “More troubling is the finding that individuals who sought religious or spiritual treatment had higher odds of later attempting suicide than those who did not seek treatment at all.”

They then noted that whites went to medical counselors and therapists while minorities went to religious counseling. There is no mention of whether this is for financial or other reasons. Too many loose ends but i'm disappointed that none of these approaches helped. Hopefully we can make a difference here as we share so much experience with each other.

Hugs,

Charlize

[Carolyn Marie]

I think it would be extremely important to know the reasons why the study results came out the way they did. What other variables were there? How many were studied? Without more details, I am loath to draw any conclusions. Like everyone else here, I'm not paying to read it.

Carolyn Marie

[Guest Sarah Faith]

Yeah I'm not gonna pay to read this study either, beyond that studies are released all the time, and often contradicting studies. Meaning people tend to cherry pick which ever study validates their own views. So really for me to take anything in this study serious I'd need to see the methods used to reach their conclusions and a full detailing of conclusions... Also I would say one should avoid taking any study too seriously until it has gone through some serious peer review.

[Guest Jennifer T]

When I first started dealing with all this mess back around 2000, my first counselors were faith based. and they actually did a good bit to help me understand and come to terms with some things from my childhood. When I finally let it all out (admitted my desire to be a woman) the counselor was phenomenal with regards to how she believed God saw all this and she referred me to the counselor that I deal with now.

Regarding the study, I'm skeptical. But not dismissive. I think too many things (as others have stated) are left unsaid here.

Peace.

[Guest Motormouth18]

I'm not paying to see the study, either. I don't how having a legitimate therapist doesn't help decrease the percentage of suicides. Having one person who's there for you, almost always helps. I can see where religious therapists might make a person feel worse like what they're doing is sinful or an abomination to God.

[Guest Fiona]

"Lesbian, gay, and bisexual people who sought mental health counseling from a religious or spiritual adviser were more likely to subsequently attempt suicide than those who sought no treatment at all, says a new study from the Williams Institute.

Frankly, that's of no surprise to me. I don't want to offend religious people here, but many religious 'advisers', I believe, will try to point them in a particular direction rather than attempting to help them figure out who they are and to go with that. Not to mention, how much actual training does a religious 'adviser' get in the way of counseling? Let alone something as specialized as this issue?

Reminds me of Catholics that must go through marriage counseling with a priest prior to getting married. A man, who has NEVER been married is going to tell me about marriage? Really? Hardly.........

[Guest KimberlyF]

"Lesbian, gay, and bisexual people who sought mental health counseling from a religious or spiritual adviser were more likely to subsequently attempt suicide than those who sought no treatment at all, says a new study from the Williams Institute.

Frankly, that's of no surprise to me. I don't want to offend religious people here, but many religious 'advisers', I believe, will try to point them in a particular direction rather than attempting to help them figure out who they are and to go with that. Not to mention, how much actual training does a religious 'adviser' get in the way of counseling? Let alone something as specialized as this issue?

Reminds me of Catholics that must go through marriage counseling with a priest prior to getting married. A man, who has NEVER been married is going to tell me about marriage? Really? Hardly.........

I'm Catholic, and attended pre-Cana lead by a married couple. Many times, it is lead by a priest or deacon(many of which are married) with assistance of a married Catholic couple.

As far as qualifications, that would prob be different from state to state. In some, anyone can open a storefront and call themselves a therapist. In others there are rigid standards. Can't tell from this study if it was religious-based therapy, or a chit chat with the local minister. Again, not paying.

It's great how the article focuses on one part of the study, when the bigger issue to me is why one of the recommended/recognized treatments for gender dysphoria isn't making an improvement?

[Guest Fiona]

"Lesbian, gay, and bisexual people who sought mental health counseling from a religious or spiritual adviser were more likely to subsequently attempt suicide than those who sought no treatment at all, says a new study from the Williams Institute.

Frankly, that's of no surprise to me. I don't want to offend religious people here, but many religious 'advisers', I believe, will try to point them in a particular direction rather than attempting to help them figure out who they are and to go with that. Not to mention, how much actual training does a religious 'adviser' get in the way of counseling? Let alone something as specialized as this issue?

Reminds me of Catholics that must go through marriage counseling with a priest prior to getting married. A man, who has NEVER been married is going to tell me about marriage? Really? Hardly.........

I'm Catholic, and attended pre-Cana lead by a married couple. Many times, it is lead by a priest or deacon(many of which are married) with assistance of a married Catholic couple.

As far as qualifications, that would prob be different from state to state. In some, anyone can open a storefront and call themselves a therapist. In others there are rigid standards. Can't tell from this study if it was religious-based therapy, or a chit chat with the local minister. Again, not paying.

It's great how the article focuses on one part of the study, when the bigger issue to me is why one of the recommended/recognized treatments for gender dysphoria isn't making an improvement?

Catholic priests cannot marry. That being said, I think that searching for answers to issues like this should be from within, with a certified TG counselor; not a religious 'adviser'.

[Guest Jenni_S]

I'm Catholic, and attended pre-Cana lead by a married couple. Many times, it is lead by a priest or deacon(many of which are married) with assistance of a married Catholic couple.

Catholic priests cannot marry. That being said, I think that searching for answers to issues like this should be from within, with a certified TG counselor; not a religious 'adviser'.

Which is why, as she said, married couples and deacons are involved. I'm also Catholic, and was not required to attend pre-Cana. It was recommended, but we were able to say no. That being said, there's also no such thing as a "certified TG counselor;" one can specialize in treating trans patients, but there is no certification. The best indication I've seen is "member, WPATH."

The best thing one can do is make use of all resources they have available, and learn from them where there are more resources, and keep going with that, while taking advantage of those resources. In my own example, I first brought up transition with my original counselor, who I'd seen for years prior, a LICSW at St. John's. He suggested I check out the clinic at the University of Minnesota, which had a wealth of resources of their own, and connections to many more. Seven years later, I've seen and done a lot of things that go back to that clinic, and I still see that original counselor from time to time, the one that first pointed me in the right direction, to check in and keep me grounded. Make use of everything you can, medical, professional, spiritual if so inclined, peers, groups, and so on. Just sticking with one part of the tree denies yourself a lot of the whole. I think putting it all together makes for a whole greater than the sum of its parts.

[Guest KimberlyF]

Which is why, as she said, married couples and deacons are involved. I'm also Catholic, and was not required to attend pre-Cana. It was recommended, but we were able to say no. That being said, there's also no such thing as a "certified TG counselor;" one can specialize in treating trans patients, but there is no certification. The best indication I've seen is "member, WPATH."

Yep. There are many social workers who call themselves Gender Therapists, with no specialized training in the field, while many of the PsyDs who helped write WPATH don't list themselves as GTs.

[Guest Fiona]

I guess the bottom line that is in my mind is that typical 'religious advisers' (based on speaking my my religious friends, my wife and much reading) have an agenda. The religion is more important, which means you should bend to meet the rules. If you feel I'm wrong, then I apologize, and so be it.

[Guest Jennifer T]

Fiona, it is my experience that all 'groups', religious or not, have an 'agenda'. And honestly, so do most individuals. And whatever seems important to any group or individual will be what they stress. That's neither good nor bad, can be either good or bad and simply just is the way things are. We take what is useful to us and move forward.

Peace.

[Guest Fiona]

Fiona, it is my experience that all 'groups', religious or not, have an 'agenda'. And honestly, so do most individuals. And whatever seems important to any group or individual will be what they stress. That's neither good nor bad, can be either good or bad and simply just is the way things are. We take what is useful to us and move forward.

Peace.

I hear ya. But an actual therapist is less than likely to have an agenda. If a therapist tries to turn you rather than help you, then move on to a new therapist. In reality, I don't need their opinion, I need their help. Help me understand ME! I've dealt with therapists because of my daughter's and found that many have the idea that meds will help everything, which is BS.

While I hear you, much like doctors, mechanics and so many other 'caregivers', find one that will help you understand yourself, not try to CHANGE you! I am what I am. I'm 47 years old and it's not going to change. I know that I have overwhelming feminine feelings. Trying to convince me that I'm wrong and should work on being a male, is not helping, it's brainwashing. And in 99% of cases, that BS will NOT work. I am what I am.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons that I simply don't trust people. To hell with their agenda......

[Guest Jennifer T]

Ok.

[Guest KimberlyF]

Fiona, it is my experience that all 'groups', religious or not, have an 'agenda'. And honestly, so do most individuals. And whatever seems important to any group or individual will be what they stress. That's neither good nor bad, can be either good or bad and simply just is the way things are. We take what is useful to us and move forward.

Peace.

Yep. There have been numerous reported cases of therapists who string patients along with the promise of soon they'll get the prescription or letters they need, as the patient continues month after month. At $X an hour. Money is a very powerful agenda for a whole lot of people.

And many who call themselves gender therapists are also the very ones who have suggested reparative therapies. Not every GT is pro-transition.

I always tried to find someone that I could connect with, open up with and feel positive about the experience at the end of the day. If not, personally, I'd find another.

[Guest Jennifer T]

Fiona, it is my experience that all 'groups', religious or not, have an 'agenda'. And honestly, so do most individuals. And whatever seems important to any group or individual will be what they stress. That's neither good nor bad, can be either good or bad and simply just is the way things are. We take what is useful to us and move forward.

Peace.

Yep. There have been numerous reported cases of therapists who string patients along with the promise of soon they'll get the prescription or letters they need, as the patient continues month after month. At $X an hour. Money is a very powerful agenda for a whole lot of people.

And many who call themselves gender therapists are also the very ones who have suggested reparative therapies. Not every GT is pro-transition.

I always tried to find someone that I could connect with, open up with and feel positive about the experience at the end of the day. If not, personally, I'd find another.

Well spoken Kim.

[Guest Fiona]

Ok.

My apologies if I've offended you. That response is kinda unresponsive.

Also, this site doesn't deal with multi-quotes very well. It seems to confuse and intermix them.

[Guest Fiona]

Fiona, it is my experience that all 'groups', religious or not, have an 'agenda'. And honestly, so do most individuals. And whatever seems important to any group or individual will be what they stress. That's neither good nor bad, can be either good or bad and simply just is the way things are. We take what is useful to us and move forward.

Peace.

Yep. There have been numerous reported cases of therapists who string patients along with the promise of soon they'll get the prescription or letters they need, as the patient continues month after month. At $X an hour. Money is a very powerful agenda for a whole lot of people.

And many who call themselves gender therapists are also the very ones who have suggested reparative therapies. Not every GT is pro-transition.

I always tried to find someone that I could connect with, open up with and feel positive about the experience at the end of the day. If not, personally, I'd find another.

Yeah, I get that. But there is also the 'god' complex where they think they can 'fix' you. They may think I'm broken, and perhaps, maybe I am. But I don't care to be fixed. I love my 'broken' self. In reality, I LOVE my feminine side. I love the fact that I have these feelings because a large part of me wants to be female, and it's no one else's right/business to try to 'correct' that. I would just ask that they try to help me understand and come to terms. After 47 years, I think I'm ok with it. But I may still seek counseling....

A therapist that hasn't gone through any of this truly doesn't know what we're going through. So a large part of me distrusts them because if they haven't gone through this, how could they possibly know?

Everyone, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I guess it's just in my nature to distrust people.

[Guest Jennifer T]

Fiona, if you love yourself and are happy with who you are, none of this would really apply to you anyway, right? You've achieved what many seek counseling for. I'd love to know what it's like to love myself.

[Guest Fiona]

Fiona, if you love yourself and are happy with who you are, none of this would really apply to you anyway, right? You've achieved what many seek counseling for. I'd love to know what it's like to love myself.

At this point, I just don't know anymore.

[Guest ashleynikole]

I'd love to know what it's like to love myself.

Jennifer, I didn't realize I didn't love myself until I truly started to love myself. Granted that only came for me after wrestling with God for months on the issue. I mean, we had a knock down, drag out. I felt like Jacob wrestling with God for answers. Answers as to why there was so much pain in my life, answers as to why I had followed Jesus for 20 years and never got the healing I so desperately wanted. Answers as to why others got to have healing and I couldn't because I believed to want to live the life of the girl inside of me, the way my spirit longed to be, was wrong and not made for me, after all if God wanted me to be female, He would've made me female.

When I got to the end of my struggle, the bottom of my barrel, and had my all out with God, only after asking, did He tell me why He created me like this. At that point, I decided that I was going to trust what He said was true, then seek His face in His Word to see if it rang true.

I started asking myself on every decision if I liked this or was just doing it because I always had or someone else told me so or whatever. I started learning more about who I was, not the physical me, but the emotional and spiritual me, the me deep down inside. I started analyzing every thought, holding it captive and saying, "Is this me or not?" If I didn't think something was me or I didn't like it or it just didn't gel with me, I ditched it. If I loved it, it stayed and if I liked it, it stayed. This process over the last 11 months has freed me to understand myself and ultimately love myself.

I'm scared of my pending divorce. I'm scared of my loneliness. I'm scared of being a single parent of 5 every other week. I'm scared of dating again. I'm scared of a whole lot of things, but I'm very excited to learn more about me, and then show the world who that me really is, who the me that God created to be really is.

You'll find that love and I believe it starts with acceptance of whatever God tells you about yourself, no matter how weird and no matter how foreign.

God bless

Ashley

[Guest Jennifer T]

I'm glad you've found that, Ashley. :-)

I wish you peace this day and God's hand on your heart as you journey forward.