"America's Got Talent" Promotes Contestant Song Mocking Transwomen

[Carolyn Marie]

http://www.glaad.org/blog/americas-got-talent-airs-song-mocking-trans-women

I intend to send an e-mail to NBC about this. This is outrageous. Nothing in the article about a formal protest from GLAAD or any response from NBC.

Carolyn Marie

[JJ]

I sincerely hope they apologize. But I would be surprised if they don't just pretend it didn't happen.

Johnny

[VickySGV]

On a rainy day it's always fun to see someone on the other side of the street getting drenched by the road splash from a passing car while you are dry under a store front canopy.

Yes, that is an obtuse statement, but that's how I see this one.

[Guest ashleynikole]

This is one of those topics that keeps me split.

On the one hand, it was rude, mean, condescending and simply a bad decision on NBC's part, the judges part to not be better, more loving role models for society as a whole.

On the other hand, I don't want to censor anyone simply by my beliefs because I don't want to be censored by others' beliefs. I want people to speak from the heart because that is where the truth of their character lies. I have a better chance of avoiding crummy people who don't want to be better, more loving people when they speak the truth. I also know who needs the education and friendship with the very people they seem to mock and bully.

Sometimes being torn on a subject just sucks...lol.

God bless

Ashley

[Guest LizMarie]

GLAAD has taken to working behind the scenes on these issues. Some people aren't happy about that but others argue that it's more effective. I do know that one prominent GLAAD member who is trans has made a reference to this which was all she did while GLAAD worked in the background on the RuPaul situation. I do not know if they are addressing this or not. We'll have to wait and see.

[Carolyn Marie]

I sent an e-mail to NBC, noting that I was a member of the West Hollywood TAB, but indicating that I was speaking on my own behalf. I'll let you know if they respond. I doubt if they will.

Carolyn Marie

[Guest KimberlyF]

It was predictable and didn't sound great but didn't bother me.

[Guest Faith gibson]

I haven't watched the performance, don't want to. Just hearing about it is enough. I can't believe that it doesn't bother everyone. I'm trying to find a way to be accepted by those around me. I don't need them seeing me as a freak in any forum of entertainment. I'll respect oithers because that's the way I am. I'll suffer others lack of respect for me because, it appears, that's the way they are.

[JJ]

I'm sadly pretty sure as we get more visible we will be hearing more of this kind of thing because all the old myths will die hard and it taps into people's fears. Hopefully though it won't be on major networks in the future and our rights will be increasingy respected as well as protected. And hopefully someone has pointed out to the producers and judges just how inappropriatee it was by now.

Johnny

[Guest princessofdarkness]

It's not censorship for a network to tell it's employee that they don't want to represented by transphobic humor. Everyone has the right to make transphobic statements; just be prepared to be told to stop. Of course, you don't have to stop. In which case, prepare to lose your job.

In this case, it's merely a contestant on a show, not a full fledged employee. Even easier. Tell him to apologize or leave. Issue an apology on behalf of the network, and move on. But given that judges approved of him, it's not likely to happen.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean you say what you want and have no repercussions to your words.

Of course that idiot, Howard Stern is a judge, so what do you expect. I don't need to go over the history of his radio show. He thinks trans people are just hilarious, and given that he's never gotten past the whole phase of making fun of people and using naughty big boy words that starts when your 8, naturally he found this hilarious.

And yes, NBC will feature shows with gay people, as the article points out. So? Does anyone honestly care? What do you want, a medal?

I don't want to be in a bad mood, but whenever the whole "trans people are hilarious" joke gets shoved in my face, I do.

I'm sick of it...

[Guest KimberlyF]

Addressing the 'hurtful cliche/myth of the sneak attack' that is being chatted about in other venues:

The reality is these things happen. GLAAD member Jenny Boylan has had a single Trans character in fiction that I'm aware of, and the character happened to have surprised a guy in the heat of the moment. It describes it from her POV and it's easy to see how it can happen and empathize w/her

This guy sings from his POV. Nowhere does he say he was tricked. He describes all these things that attract him but she has one deal breaker for him.

Both the song and the piece of fiction came out this year. Will there be calls for JB's head and letters to the publisher for an apology for spreading this dangerous myth?

Again, the reality is these things happen. There is a bar near here where the guys I work with talk of a Trans woman who hangs out there. They say it's their duty to tell the guys she's talking to that she's Trans when she goes to the bathroom because she doesn't for a while. There are serious risks in her actions. It wouldn't mean someone has the right to hurt her, but her actions are putting her in real risk.

[JJ]

I wonder if it would also be their duty to tell someone she was a cancer survivor or her income level etc. It is not their business or their responsability to watch out for her safety but does make their negative and transphobic actions sound more respectable.

It's one thing to discuss that such things happen and another entirely to make it the subject of hurtful and disrespectful jokes. You know some ethic stereotypes do occur for instance but it is no longer okay to joke about it if an African American decides to wart watermelon. Hopefully we are becoming more mature and sensitive as a culture for that kind os nastiness. And trans people should be no exception.

Anyone remember the ugly old days when etnic jokes and women -jokesdumb driver or hysterical or even fat were the norm and heard at every gathering? I do and I don't think it was okay just because sometimes those things did happen. If we can move past that ugly behavior as a society then we can move away from finding trans phobia funny too. That song played to sterotypes and made something ugly funny-and that is not okay with me. Nit just because I am trans but because it's morally wrong. Period.

Johnny

[Guest KimberlyF]

These guys at the bar were not looking out for her safety or trying to excuse their behavior. They were angry with her actions and think of them as her 'tricking' people because she's not upfront. Any one wanna guess what political party they all support? Union yes!

There are similar moral conversations that do take place among cancer survivors, btw. Especially if a treatment has made one sterile or something like that, and also for people with a huge hidden debt. Many feel that people are stringing others along hoping they get in too deep before they find out. I can talk morals about this stuff and how I believe people should act, but that's just my opinion.

As for comedy, the woman gold digger/or rags to riches to support the poor girl is still comedy gold/the theme for many movies. As well as fat humor of course. Everybody loves the fat suit! Fat women are the best.

I rarely mix comedy with morals. If any show bothers me, comedy or other, I turn the channel. I have yet to watch a single season of American Idol. I just don't get it. But if others like it, have at it.

I don't believe in forcing my beliefs on others. Can't think of a single person in history who tried forcing beliefs on others by threats or intimidation that I'm a huge fan of.

[Carolyn Marie]

I don't believe in forcing my beliefs on others. Can't think of a single person in history who tried forcing beliefs on others by threats or intimidation that I'm a huge fan of.

I'm a bit lost here. Not sure how complaining about the airing, and applauding, of a song that derides transwomen is forcing anyone's beliefs on anyone else It is simply telling NBC that some folks who are the target of that song don't appreciate it.

Carolyn Marie

[Guest KimberlyF]

I don't believe in forcing my beliefs on others. Can't think of a single person in history who tried forcing beliefs on others by threats or intimidation that I'm a huge fan of.

I'm a bit lost here. Not sure how complaining about the airing, and applauding, of a song that derides transwomen is forcing anyone's beliefs on anyone else It is simply telling NBC that some folks who are the target of that song don't appreciate it.

Carolyn Marie

In my experience, the joke is on the person who fell for the trap. The guy who went out with the Trans woman is the butt of the joke.

If everyone had the right to not be offended and expected stations to take some kind of action when they were, there would be no such thing as television.

I didn't feel derided and won't be writing letters. But everyone should save some outrage, because Joan Rivers just called Michelle Obama the T word and Obama our first gay president. Oh, the humanity!

[Guest Faith gibson]

I agree with Johnny. It's just not right and because it's out there and happening it still doesn't make it right. There's a word for it. Oh yeah, bullying. Feeling better by putting someone else down.

[Drea]

I see NBC has removed access to it so not people can characterize it was they want without others actually being able to judge for themselves.

So what makes this materially different than host of other representations of trans people (pick south park as one example) used in a comedic fashion?

I wonder how much of the outrage is less from the content but actually seeing the hosts/judges and audience get laugh at it? That somehow this makes it different than like south park where the laughs don't occur within the program itself?

Then, having recently been viewing "Orange is the new Black" I am shocked that the trans representation in that series seems to be getting lauded by the community. The portrayal of this trans character in the show hits on so many stereotypes from the hair dresser thing, to the behavior that comes off more effeminate than female and overall behavior of the character, while trans people would see a chasm of difference between her acting and drag queen, but to the general population the role comes close enough to hitting that drag queen note as to leave that impression.

And while they do seem to portray her sympathetically, and I can see many elements in her and the back story with flashbacks that do hit notes of shared experiences with trans people, but why, with such a diverse community did they have to choose a portrayal that comes so close to the stereotypes? While I do know people who are similar to her there are others plenty different.

In my view a stupid joke gets laughed at. Few really take it seriously. A serious portrayal fulfilling stereotypes yet still at points getting laughs (or possibly response of disgust) is far more likely to be believed and is far more insidious. Yet for a show like Orange is the new Black such laughs large happen in other households. But perhaps having a trans person acting that role makes it all okay.

Many in this community want acceptance, want people to think they are normal. It would probably bother some to know that most people who accept trans, like with gays, feel to themselves and express to other non-trans that this trans stuff is pretty weird but if it makes em happy that is okay. I am sure there are people who would call such thoughts transphobic because they aren't viewed as totally "normal" but in the next breath would then start denying the existence of a "normal"

And once again the moral outrage helps fulfill the stereotype that trans people are just bitter and angry.

Despite it being pulled I was able to find the vid and I for one don't feel offended. I don't see it as any reflection on me. Similar to south park or the Orange is the new Black its entertainment and I find no reason to be outraged or see great positives (as in Orange is the new black).

To me this is petty stuff.

And to borrow a phrase I saw used in the past few weeks "this is what I call self esteem".

So what's the issue? There aren't MTF trans people with a penis? There aren't MTF trans people who not only have one but actually like it? That there aren't some MTF who has strung guys along without disclosing?

People do disclose other medical conditions. My sister certainly disclosed quickly that, as she put it, she is crazy.

The community has been pushing for "awareness" among the general population for a long time and then wonders at how the public becomes more aware of the negative things along with the positive. I really do feel sorry for those transitioning in these days of high awareness. At least for those who just want to be seen as their preferred gender rather than as transgender. In my view it was much easier years ago than these days.

[Guest Faith gibson]

To me there is no grey area here. There is some idiot out there, quite likely more than one, that will feel it's OK to make fun of MTF transgendered people based on what this old fool did under the guise of humour. That's just not acceptable to me. It never will be. I probably am being over sensitive about this but I believe that it is people who stand up and speak out against unjust treatment of others that are in the right. I don't think it makes me a bittter or angry person.

I have never watched an episode of SouthPark and quite likely never will.

[JJ]

One of the most important things to remember in a situation like this is that humor has always been a primary and initial tool in propaganda because human psychology is such that when we laugh at something it bypasses a critical judgment center and becomes accaptable when otherwise it would not. In both World Wars humor was used to create the mentality that the people we were fighting were subhuman somehow-on all sides. Actually it has been used that way throughout human history to some extent even before we understood why it worked those in charge realized it's power. You can change people and their behavior with humor in ways you otherwise coud not. There is in addition a bandwagon effectwhen others are also laughing. It deepens and intensifies the effect.

Look up Hitler's campaign against the Jews in Germany. He was a master propagandist and he intentionally started with humor because it allowed him to change perceptions in ways that nothings else would so by the time he began his more direct and violent acts the population was ready to accept it even though some of the people targeted had once even been national heroes.

An extreme example I admit but one that demonstrates vividly why it is not okay to joke about stereotypes or groups. Why it DOES concern each of us and should matter when it happens -especially in a venue that reached and unquestionably affected millions of people though most would not recognize that their opinions were subtly changed. These aren't my opinions-they are psychological and historical facts. There are hundreds of studies and documents out there about it.

It works in nations and it works in small groups and it works amazingly well and amazingly quickly to affect-even dramatically affect-people. And is in fact also one of the principles of advertising-think how many ads use humor even when it is only remotely related to their product-it shuts down certain critical responsed and you accept what you are told much easier and faster. In that humor are statements they want you to accept without questioning them. Companies spend billions on advertising so it is a serious business and no casual thing that they use humor to promote their products.

Sometimes humor not only isn't dangerous-it's an attack. And that is whay I care -and why this matters. Intentional or not it made life just a little harder for every transwoman out there because millions of people were influenced-albieit subtly -to fear and buy into the message that they trap and fool men and are less acceptable than other women.

Johnny

[Guest KimberlyF]

This is an interesting discussion to me because based on GLAAD's comments:

"Last night's episode contrasts with NBC's track record of groundbreaking depictions of gay and lesbian people, including shows like Will & Grace"

and also comments here of the damaging impact of stereotypes in humor. The Sean Hayes character is groundbreaking, and not every gay stereotype rolled into one for comic relief? We didn't laugh AT Jack?

GLAAD should demand NBC pull all copies of it because it may make people believe all gay men are air headed narcissists that hop from bed to bed for sex and worship Cher!!!! /sarcasm

And again, I don't think the majority of the crowd were laughing at a woman who didn't exist. The one judge called him a dirty, dirty old man. For many, the idea of an 84 yo singing about a penis at all and then self-defacing-his is small-is part of the humor. Will and Grace-100% laughing at Jack when he said or did something stupid. Groundbreaking TV.

I agree with Drea, and I mentioned it on another topic. I'm more disturbed by the message under the surface of a more serious program like Orange is the New Black, where the LC character is shown having more concern for getting estrogen than the possible future of her child. That greatly disturbed me. That does not represent me any more than the woman at the bar I mentioned earlier, but I have empathy for the woman at the bar.

[Guest princessofdarkness]

I'm pretty sure most people watching the show found the idea of a "dirty old man" to be funny in itself, and the idea of a transgendered woman with him, a woman with some male parts, to be even funnier. Because dirty old men are funny for some reason, and transwoman are 'icky' for not being born female. I'm with others, humor does matter greatly. If any program features jokes making fun of transgendered people, I hope it gets pulled (which has nothing to do with freedom of speech). We should get organized and get this garbage off television. But, easy for me to say, I don't watch much television.

And Faith, the episode of South Park basically said transwoman are 1) disgusting and, 2) delusional (saying it was no different than wanting to be a dolphin). The stupid song on this show wasn't nearly as bad. Just more of the South Park creator's pathetic attempts to be "politically incorrect". A lot of people seem to take that show seriously, which is disturbing. Thusly I've heard young 20-ish guys make the same attacks on trans people with the whole "dolphin" argument.

I'll be happy when transphobic humor is as much a career killer as saying something racist.