Passing too well

[Guest ThePhoenix]

Okay this will be trying to articulate something for the first time, so please bear with me.

When I transitioned, the single thing I wanted most of all was to become passable so that I could be accepted authentically as a woman among women and lead an ordinary life that was not dominated by being trans*. I achieved the passability, though not the normal life. And as far as passing goes, I am starting to feel like I should have been careful what I wished for.

For example, today I had a routine HRT follow-up with my regular HRT doctor who has been with me since the beginning. Her medical assistant brought me into the exam room and talked with me on the way in about one of her colleagues who is pregnant and how she (the medical assistant) was sure I knew what that was like. Then the doctor came in and by the end of the appointment, I reminded her that she should probably order a check of hormone levels before the next appointment. She got a bit flustered and said she completely forgot about me being trans*. So we've got my trans* HRT doctor forgetting about me being trans* while I'm there for an appointment because of being trans*. Call me crazy, but that seems like a pretty extreme form of passing.

I have come out to both trans* people and cis people, while I was in the midst of doing trans* activism projects, only to be called a liar and told I am not trans* at all. This happens more often than not and I've had to find creative ways of outing myself at trans* support group meetings so that people realize I really am one of the club, I really do have trans* related issues to talk about, and something to add, and it really is okay to talk about this stuff in front of me, etc.

I realize this probably sounds like a nice problem to have. In some ways it is. It still makes me giggle. But another feeling is starting to emerge as well.

I have suffered a lot for trans*ness. I've lost my legal career because of it, and so far more than a quarter of a million dollars in salary alone. I've come close to being assaulted on the street for failing to pass as a guy while presenting male (my work wouldn't allow me to present female) and for campaigning on the community's behalf. I've lost my entire family as well. I've been fighting off homelessness for more than a year so far. I don't have much to lose.

I guess I am more marked by my experience than I realized. Because now, when people find they can recognize so little trans*ness in me, it is becoming more and more like a new form of invisibility and being unseen. It's like there is something about me that goes unnoticed, unacknowledged, and disregarded because it isn't seen. And that is starting to bother me.

Can anyone else relate to this?

I do recognize that this is the type of problem many people might wish to have and would not consider troublesome at all. But I would ask that people withhold that judgment. I'm being real here and my problems are problems too. I have a really hard time finding places to discuss them because of the "oh you're so lucky, I wish I had your problems" I encounter.

[Charlize]

I do not wish for your problems but instead just wish to live as myself in peace. I ay pass or not, i'm never sure since i spend most of my life with people who have always known me. They certainly know i'm trans*. I prefer to pass in life as it simply makes it easier to live in peace. I don't know how i would react in your situation. For me it's easy i can always remove my wig and the baldness is either from a cancer treatment or maybe i've a recent T survivor, she's obviously trans* I also know that in a way i feel a kind of special position in being myself and being honest about my past when i care to share it. I can understand the frustration i would feel if folks wouldn't believe me. Strange it isn't something i'd consider lying about. The is a certain pride i feel in being trans* even though it lives under cover as it can. It's like being a turtle with it's head tucked in most of the time unless the coast is clear.

Hugs,

Charlize

[gennee]

When I went out on my own the first time, I was hit on all day. It still happens from time to time. It's nice to see that people view me as a person going about and enjoying life. I think your life has become normal. you've gone through some tough life experiences but your still standing. Being authentic will scare and drive away some folks. You are affecting people in different ways. Perhaps there is someone you may not know is dealing with the same issues you are. When they see how well you are handling them (I know it isn't easy), it gives them hope.

[Guest noeleena]

Hi,

Different time and different place. I doubt some of us would say we dont have issues and detail to go through maybe not in the same way and how those issues affect us , how those issues relate to us and who we are as people,

Psychologically and Emotionally, the issues we go through can break us or make us ,I cant say i have expreanced what youv gone through my life has been very different , yet none the less , I know from what i,v been told from people i know we all have something to offer and how we go about it can help others

So thanks for sharing .

...noeleena...

[Guest Kayla Grace]

I believe I see what you mean. You just want to be noticed and acknowledged as different, is what it sounds like. Which I can't say I can relate to ... I'd love to swap positions with you, pass for a female too well. But that's just who I am. I'd rather not be identified as trans, because it's not who I am.

I am a female. I am a trans only because I'm in transition. From what it looks like, you want to be known as trans.

My point is, once your gender identity and gender sex are the same, go out and live your life as that gender! You didn't transition because you felt like it, you transitioned because you HAD to. You suffered losses, paid your dues, and now it's time for you to use what you paid and waited for, for god knows how many years.

Many who get noticed often get noticed because they are confident, and living their lives the way THEY want to. If it makes YOU happy, who cares if others notice.

That's just my two cents

Natalya <3

[JJ]

Transitioning is a very complex and individual thing -just as our emotional and psychological needs are individual and complex. I have also experienced people who know my history starting to forget that anything was ever different even when they have known me for a long time. My daughter (and best friend who shares my home as we co-parenting my grandchild) even gets uncomfortable with any way I step outside the male role and say or do something rooted in my past. I'm an artist and may comment on clothes or nails, even feminism, in ways that are not masculine but when I do she is clearly uncomfortable. She snapped when I checked something in a mirror -whether the compression shirt looked okay with a tee before I went outside-that she wished I wouldn't do that because it was too feminine. Yet she is the most accepting person I know as far as gender roles. I've thought about it-why she and my friends seem to want to move past trans man to just man- which is inherently true but doesn't always reflect my long past which will always be part of me.

I think it is because we want people to fit categories and patterns. Have read that it is one of the basic human drives really and has played a huge part in our evolution as a highly intelligent species. The dark side of that is the need to keep people in understandable roles and categories. Plus I told them I am a man and can hardly complain now because they see it that way. Culture and socialization is a powerful force. Both have thousands of messages about gender which most people never think about or question. The people around us begin to apply those messages and norms to us because there are none for trans.

My take would be to maintain your trans identity within the community and circle of acquaintances and let it go outside. Because seeing you as trans does not inform the people you meet about who you are and what your journey has been. It's getting better, but being identified as trans still far more mis-informs than informs people in general about who we are and the journey we have made.

Personally I will always think of myself as transgendered because I have transitioned in appearance and gender role from one gender to another. It is not who I am but it is my history. However I don't go around sharing any other aspects of my history unless I have a reason and I am not going around sharing that one either. Living as a man in a man's world tells people how to treat me-modified by what kind of man I present myself to be of course.

That said, how you want to be seen and live your life is your choice and what you feel is as acceptable and legitimate as anything I may feel. I have noticed that after almost 4 years in transition I am still evolving and suspect I will continue to do so as long as I live.

Johnny

[Guest Kayla Grace]

Cyndi, I don't know what to say besides that helped me too.

You've put my good mood into a better mood, thank you

Natalya <3

[Guest ThePhoenix]

I much appreciated Johnny's post as well. Thank you for that.

Alas, I do have one big issue that must be solved before I can lead a normal life. That is the question of employment. It is unfortunately crucial to survival. Part of why I have always been passing obsessed was my hope that I could keep employment by stay

[Guest LizMarie]

Have you considered relocating? Certain cities are much friendlier to trans people than others.

Also, is your legal paperwork in order? Do you have a female name and gender marker on state identification? If so, you can get a passport and thus bypass the entire birth certificate issue since a passport is equal in weight legally to a birth certificate.

Such documents would allow you to apply for new work as the woman you are without ever having to reveal your trans past.

[Guest ThePhoenix]

Have you considered relocating? Certain cities are much friendlier to trans people than others.

Also, is your legal paperwork in order? Do you have a female name and gender marker on state identification? If so, you can get a passport and thus bypass the entire birth certificate issue since a passport is equal in weight legally to a birth certificate.

Such documents would allow you to apply for new work as the woman you are without ever having to reveal your trans past.

Yes, I've considered relocating. Sadly the legal profession is among the most conservative industries that exist. It's bad anywhere. Plus I do not have funds to relocate. And relocating now would be a questionable decision since I am just waiting on the federal government's interminable background investigation so that I can begin a different career.

Yes, of course my paperwork is in order. One benefit of being a lawyer is that part was easy for me. Unfortunately, those documents actually do not make it so easy to apply for other work without revealing trans* status. There's still the matter of employment history and references. There's the tendency of most employers to Google new employees (dear "friend" of the trans* community Cathy Brennan has been known to write about me on a couple of her websites). Being a lawyer makes it very possible that someone would do an electronic court record search to see what cases I have handled. That would lead to finding my name change records.

So no, having updated documents doesn't solve this problem. I don't think it does for anyone. Stealth is very difficult no matter how well you pass.

[JJ]

Though it has been awhile I am very familiar with the mindset in the legal profession. My dad was one of the founders of the American Academy of Trial Lawyers and on it's board till health forced his retirement. I grew up knowing people like Melvin Belli, Scotty Baldwin, Percy Foreman and others. That was a different generation of course but I suspect a lot of the same culture still prevails. And while many, if not most of the lawyers were very conservative there were also quite a few who were not. My dad was traditional in some ways but very liberal in most. We had a lesbian commitment ceremony (there was no way a marriage was possible of course) at our home over 50 years ago. They were friends of the family and other lawyers attended the ceremony as well. Unfortunately my dad had passed away before I had my epiphany and transitioned but I know he would have accepted it though been concerned about the impact on my life.

What counted with my dad was talent and hard work. It would have trumped anything else when he was hiring for his firm. I'm also aware of the great differences between the different types of law practice and realize some may be more difficult than others with trial lawyers perhaps being more mavericks than many others but surely it would be worth researching firms around the country and finding one that was accepting and liberal in your field of law? Or a liberal company that needs a lawyer in your field?

There is also a tendency among us to anticipate more rejection and problems, more barriers, than we actually find. Living in this small ultra conservative, hillbilly-redneck community I feared hate mail, burning crosses on the lawn and universal rejection. In the 3 1/2 years I have been transitioning here I have instead met with universal acceptance. Only one comment has even to be said within hearing of my extended family and the person apologized. So maybe it would not be as bleak as it seems. I'm not saying there may not be real challenges and hurdles- just that it may not be as bad as you anticipate.

But only you can decide if it is worth the risk or not. Wouldn't do any harm to do some research on possibilities for finding a liberal firm or company where you could practice and not have to face the worry and fear of going stealth. I agree that as things stand with access to virtually anything about anyone going stealth is really not feasible for most people. Especially when you need to provide a history and credentials.

You mentioned a new career - will it be possible to transition in that career?

Johnny

[Guest ThePhoenix]

What counted with my dad was talent and hard work. It would have trumped anything else when he was hiring for his firm. I'm also aware of the great differences between the different types of law practice and realize some may be more difficult than others with trial lawyers perhaps being more mavericks than many others but surely it would be worth researching firms around the country and finding one that was accepting and liberal in your field of law? Or a liberal company that needs a lawyer in your field?

That's what I've been doing without the success since a year or two before before I transitioned and lost my job. You run I to a bunch of problems besides just transphobic discrimination. There's also the fact that I'm licensed in only two jurisdictions (Maryland & DC) and it is not practical to just start pursuing admission in other states. And there's unemployment discrimination. And there's the fact that it is exceedingly difficult for anyone to get a job as a lawyer now, no matter who you are or how great your credentials.

Trust me, I'm neither lazy nor stupid. I've been working this problem for a long time. It's been a year or two since anyone last came up with an idea I have not already tried several times or a person I have not spoken to.

There is also a tendency among us to anticipate more rejection and problems, more barriers, than we actually find. Living in this small ultra conservative, hillbilly-redneck community I feared hate mail, burning crosses on the lawn and universal rejection. In the 3 1/2 years I have been transitioning here I have instead met with universal acceptance. Only one comment has even to be said within hearing of my extended family and the person apologized. So maybe it would not be as bleak as it seems. I'm not saying there may not be real challenges and hurdles- just that it may not be as bad as you anticipate.

This is true. But things like what has happened to me do still happen to people. You can lose everything. The odds of that are less than ten years ago. But it still happens to people.

But only you can decide if it is worth the risk or not. Wouldn't do any harm to do some research on possibilities for finding a liberal firm or company where you could practice and not have to face the worry and fear of going stealth. I agree that as things stand with access to virtually anything about anyone going stealth is really not feasible for most people. Especially when you need to provide a history and credentials.

You mentioned a new career - will it be possible to transition in that career?

Well, in my case that is kind of moot since I have already transitioned. But what I can say is that the new career is in the U.S. Department of State representing the U.S. abroad. Their first ever transitioner was in 2011. I'm the first ever to go through the recruitment process as an open trans* person, so I am being viewed by some as a test case.

Since I would be abroad for prolonged periods of time, I have put trans*ness all over the paperwork at every stage and talked about it a lot. I want to know if trans*ness is a problem ahead of time rather than finding out while I'm stationed at some isolated post abroad for several years and having real problems because of it. I have breezed through the selection process with no complaints at all. I've had some bumps in the clearances. But so far those have been pretty minor. Based on my experience so far, I think I would recommend the State Department as a pretty good place for a trans* person. I won't say it is the absolute best possible place. But it seems way better than most places. But I also add the caveat that my experience may not be representative of everyone given the response people have to me that I described in the original post.

The question now for me is whether I can get the last clearances done before I lose my home. They are s l o w and I've been doing what I can to speed them up. But I seem to have exhausted what I can do at this point.

[Guest noeleena]

Hi.

Concerning work and how people see you seems to be an issue ,

For my self no issues and i carryed on as i have done for over 46 years as a builder and joiner, plus other work related trades,

im just accepted for who i am regardless of what i wear or how im seen , short;s and tee top my pinny and shoes or boots , you see its not about clothes , its about who you are as a person , i work with many people ran my own show for years in the public all the time and even now though im retired i dont need to work i do for friends and could work every day for people,

Im accepted as normal, a trades do my job and most who wont me to work for them are women . and i was told its nice to have a woman on the job instead of males, so there you go,

i still have my earings in lippy and thats it ,and im just noeleena to every one,

How you deal or work with people and get on may be an issue for some i dont know , comes down to your attitude and interacting with others, personality , you know some times one needs to look at them selfs , any way if no issues,

Oh by the way , look at it from my side, say i get a big job would you work for me could you wear shorts a tee top, boots and do a days work on the sites, i dont wear makeup even when im out with friends no need, so could this be about a wont to look like a or how a woman dress,s on a building site,

or..... oh no i wont to only look like a woman ......my answer i dont look like a female yet i am one or would i look more masculine , spos i do and who cares, im still who i,v allways been or am . hey i can be preaty rough looking on the sites, and grubby, dirty and our daughter Kaylyn did , we both did when she worked for me. and yes i paid her well,.......3 work sites,

...noeleena...

[Guest ThePhoenix]

Noleena, I am very happy that you have encountered no problems. However:

How you deal or work with people and get on may be an issue for some i dont know , comes down to your attitude and interacting with others, personality , you know some times one needs to look at them selfs , any way if no issues,

This appears to suggest that what happened to me was my fault because it "comes down to [my] attitude and interacting with others" and that I need to look at myself as the problem.

For your information, before transition, the situation was such that my boss invited me to join his family for Thanksgiving dinner and was talking about me as a potential successor for him once he retired. Once I transitioned, falsified documents started showing up in files, and I started hearing things like "remember how I told you how good the work you did was? Well, I changed my mind." And while I was in mid-transition, a great deal was said to me about how difficulty it would be to have me around because of my transition, how my transition meant I should not be allowed to do anything where people might see me, and how I was "pushing the limits of weird."

Once I transitioned, I did not get fired. Instead, I got tortured so badly that it severely damaged my health and I finally had to resign on the advice of my physician. Had I not left, it is no exaggeration to say that it might have killed me. Two-and-a-half years later, I think I am finally recovered. And when I left, I did pursue a legal claim. And I'm not allowed to say exactly how it went, but I will say that they ended up paying some pretty big bucks for what they did. They didn't do that because I just had a bad attitude.

I could go on, but I hope I don't need to. I am absolutely sincere in saying that I am glad you did not go through what I did. I would not wish for what happened to me to happen to anyone. But you are one of the very lucky ones. Take a look at the stats on this sometime. Workplace problems are the rule. It's unusual to have none. And this stuff is very real. To try and blame it on me, especially when you know nothing about the situation, is really pretty insulting and I take serious exception to it. I also think it is pretty inappropriate on a support forum.

[Guest N. Jane]

I can relate.

As a child and an adolescent, I couldn't pass as "male" and was called queer, Sweetie, and, worst of all "it". I was miserable and deeply depressed by my late teens.

When I transitioned and had SRS at age 24 (1974) my gender was rarely (if ever) questioned again and I found out what life was like as a normal woman. Aside from dealing with gender discrimination in the work place (which every woman had to do), it was the life I wanted.

I prefer to keep m ancient history buried - I don't deny it but I also wont talk about it - but there are times it has to be discussed and the reactions can be funny, like when a nurse asks "When was your last period?" or "Is there any chance you could be pregnant?"

I had enough grief as a child and I prefer not to be "different", or at least not for that reason.

[Guest ThePhoenix]

Since I would be abroad for prolonged periods of time, I have put trans*ness all over the paperwork at every stage and talked about it a lot. I want to know if trans*ness is a problem ahead of time rather than finding out while I'm stationed at some isolated post abroad for several years and having real problems because of it. I have breezed through the selection process with no complaints at all. I've had some bumps in the clearances. But so far those have been pretty minor. Based on my experience so far, I think I would recommend the State Department as a pretty good place for a trans* person. I won't say it is the absolute best possible place. But it seems way better than most places. But I also add the caveat that my experience may not be representative of everyone given the response people have to me that I described in the original post.

Unfortunately, I must now retract my earlier recommendation of the State Department as a trans* friendly employer. In my case, the Department has violated its own procedures to revoke my job offer on ridiculous grounds.

Instead of finishing the clearances, they skipped them and went straight to the final suitability review. The final review panel revoked my offer and accused me of fraud, dishonesty, and intentional false statements based on a failure to disclose some financial information even though I actually disclosed that specific information twice.

They also cited the fact that I lost my previous job for being trans* and have had financial issues as a result. This, they say, constitutes "criminal, dishonest, or disgraceful conduct." That is, of course, absolutely ridiculous.

If they had followed the usual process and said that I never disclosed the information, then I'd probably assume someone just lost a few pages from the file. I'd send them a copy of my previous disclosures and assume that was that and the mistake would be fixed. But I have a hard time seeing good faith error when they skip steps in the process and accuse me of criminal, dishonest, and disgraceful conduct based on nothing more than my being poor. Sooooooo... cancel the recommendation of the State Department as a trans* friendly employer.

[Cyndee]

Sorry to read this update, that stinks

C -

[Carolyn Marie]

That is really awful, Phoenix. I am so sorry that you got screwed, especially when this administration has been going out of its way to show how trans friendly it is.

You could take the matter to the Transgender Law Center (a California non-profit, but one which will take cases from elsewhere) or find other legal or regulatory bodies, but I'm not sure you would want to work for those folks after what they've done.

Things are getting better, but not nearly fast enough. I hope that you can find something else, and quickly. Have you considered the non-profit arena, or places like the Human Rights Campaign? Some may need top notch legal talent.

I know a transwoman in Boston who was a lawyer and a judge, who transitioned during a campaign for an elected judicial seat. She lost, and then lost her job. I think she had to switch careers. So your experience is, unfortunately, not unique. I wish you the best in your search.

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

[Guest LizMarie]

Things like this are one of the reasons I am leery of changing jobs at all, especially so soon after going full time. My current employer is very supportive with the sole exception that their health care policy won't cover trans surgeries without extensive appeals so I'm making plans for Thailand eventually. But that's my fear, that even applying to a supposedly trans friendly employer could backfire and I end up unemployed entirely.