Where do we fit.

[Guest Asile23]

Today I saw a university presentation about Trangenderism and the person making the presentation claimed that cross-dressers don't fit under the transgender umbrella. I'm really confused about that. I know it may not matter to most of you but I want to know where I fit in the world.

[Guest noeleena]

Hi,

Where do you fit much the same place i do and every one else what we do about that will depend on well okay , others in how we accept our self and how others accept us , you or myself,

I wont go into this Transgenderism as it does not apply in my case yet other matters do .

Fitting in , first off love your self and for who you are , this is about the core you what makes you...... you ,

join some groups , = maybe sewing woodwork or reinactment dressing in times past work in kitchens with in your community for free to give others not so well off church groups , maybe a sports group , now theres lots of groups who invite you to become a member so you learn how to do things and have friendships . just making tea and coffe and serving at do,s , what a neat place to fit in .

Oh some will say how belittling can that be, is it....... not in my book . be a doer get out in public , oh you say cant do that why because others may see you ....... yeap thats the point be seen be a doer this is about >>>> FITTING IN <<<<.

Im in charge of Kitchens for our groups i make sure every thing is working our people are happy being there and working yes we give of our selfs ,we serve others i meet so many people and talk with them , im very involved with in our groups with in our membership of over 1500 people and i know every one . am i fitting in, is this some thing you can do , we all can and we can learn so much from others .

Not sure if many here would like to do what i do or be seen in public so much as i do yet im well known because im a get up and go and a doer ,

Maybe i fit in to well both with in our many groups 7 of and society as a whole , hey i.v got a few issues and not perfect and flaws that is over looked even so i still fit in .

At the moment i would not worry to much if you fit in or not, i would look at how you fit to who you are now, accept your self love your self and be just you dont try and copy others or try and be like them it wont work

this is not about male female or other, this is about hey this is who i am get that right and every thing else will take place in its own time when its right , you know some time;s we have to have faith in who we are to be able to see our self in a way that comes when your open to seeing your self.

You,v left your self wide open to where you fit in ,

only you can know that and only you can find that place of fitting in i,v given some idears and keys if you like thats all i can do ,

up to you to do the leg work ......yes it means you have to go look and find.

...noeleena...

[Guest KatyDesire]

I once saw a therapist who told me that gay was something on its own, and everything else could be grouped together. So people have particular views, but I don't believe they are always based on good science, and are very often way off the facts.

I have read pretty much everything I can lay my hands on, including some scholarly works, and I must tell you that I seriously disagree with the person who made those comments, whether or not in a university forum. I have, for many years, held honorary posts at various universities, and so have some knowledge of how things work there. Someone gets a bee in their bonnet, and push their opinions for all they are worth - even when the facts starkly contradict them, and especially when there is some doubt about the real answer.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record (remember records, all of you who are old enough?) - we all lie on a whole number of spectra. There is a range of intelligence, of height, of skin color, of hair growth, of eye color, etc etc etc.

Equally, their is a spectrum for PHYSICAL sexual appearance, for sexual preference, for gender expression (ie dressing), and so on. When these tend beyond a certain point - probably different for different people - then it will be more comfortable for them to transition. However, to use myself as an example: I like both sides of my personality, and I am content in the position I find myself. I would be happier if I could express it more openly, but that's life. My gender expression presents in various ways, including my choice of entertainment, my sports interests, and my choice of company. And my choice of dress.

The other day someone insulted my wife. The testosterone was oozing out of my ears and dripping down my skin. All thoughts of dressing disappeared in a second, and I was ready to rip that individual apart - not the most feminine reaction, I would say. But the next day I was calm, and was able to spend some time in a really nice dress which suited me perfectly, and made me feel comfortable, and just natural.

Someone who wants to transition is just more over to one side of some of the spectra. A really girly genetically female woman is somewhere on a different end of the spectrum. And most people are not at the extremes, although they just may not admit it.

So just start to enjoy being who you are. Its not everyone who has the privilege of some insight into the lives of both genders.

Hugs.

[Guest Jana]

Hi Asile,

My first thought is simply the presenter is incorrect. Transgender is an umbrella term that has included cross-dressers for several decades. You fit just right as transgender.

Best,

Jana

[Charlize]

Often an asterisk is added to specifically include the entire spectrum. Trans* is an all encompassing way of writing transgendered. I have to agree that the professor needs to do a little research. The vocabulary seems to be evolving quite quickly but the important thing is that we find a way to have peace in our lives not how it is called by academics.

Hugs,

Charlize

[Guest Asile23]

Thank you for the input.

[Guest Elyssia]

I tend to believe that trans covers cross dressing and that it is a huge spectrum between 100% male and 100% female and its a massive distance between those two points the encapsulates every aspect of peoples feelings and situations.

Everybody is different with how they feel in that gender scale, and its up to you to find your place where you are most happy(easier said than done) I haven't really found my place yet.

[Guest Eve Caillard]

Interesting that the University presenter made such a decision. Is he transgender or a cross dresser? I doubt it. So far as I am concerned the academics and researchers can take a running jump. Unless they are cross-dressers themselves, they can have no concept of what it is like to be us. I am a cross-dresser. I won't be going for any surgery or even starting down that route, but I consider myself Transgender. Why? Nothing to do with sexuality, nothing to do with 'mental health'. But everything to do with the fact that for all my life I could not (and cannot) fit in masculine groups. I don't mix easily with men, I don't hunt, shoot, fish, do motors (autos), or anything masculine. I work as a librarian which is a feminine line of work, and I am at my most comfortable chatting in groups of women. I am very feminine, very happy being that way and have no need to change, thank you vey much.

Further, all the tests I have done (and re-done) place me at 75% female orientation, including the peer reviewed Bem Sex Role Inventory.

So the university presenter can take a running jump. His opinion is flawed, and I know where I stand and I take pride in it. I am a cross-dresser,and I consider myself transgender right down to my freshly varnished toe nails.

Eve

[Guest cerise]

Now that the term Transgender has been embraced by the Generl Public there are bound to be some issues with befuddled definitions.

Which came first the term or the definition?

Redefining it seems pointless and counter productiveespecially when it comes to making a broad term into a narrow plying feild.

One reason I left the forum years ago was there seemed to be an underlying movement that if you wern't ready or in the process of transitioning you were someting else.

A transgenderist!

When it is needed I will introduce myself as Transgender as I did last year to a good friend,

there was some confusion since most people don't really think about the topic or sub categories for that matter.

Its like AA, only you can say who or what you are.

As is with most things , the only requirement for membership should be a desire to be happy and a migration towards an open mind.

[Guest Sarah Faith]

Truth be told, the science behind the entire Transgender umbrella is practically non existent. Why? Because Transgender as an umbrella term has become so broad covering so many different kinds of people at this point that it is more of a political term for social grouping now than a Scientific term. What I mean by that is that the transgender umbrella is more of a social and political affiliation group than a solid scientific definition.

Now I know what one might say, they might say "But there is research! Studies of transwomen have shown......" yes, but how does the science that applies to a transwoman apply to, for example, someone who identifies as gender neutral? It doesn't as there has been very little to no research done on the subject. We can't just infer that because some studies show one thing for one group that it can apply across the entire spectrum that isn't how the scientific method or really psychology in general works.

This is likely why an academic has a different definition then is the politically correct definition, science does not always flow the same direction as the politics and group dynamics in play. It's unfortunate to say that the research of transgender topics is extremely lacking because honestly we are of very little interest to mainstream culture, and really to the Psychological and Neuroscience fields in general. Not because they are bigoted or anything like that, but because there are still far bigger mysteries facing the psychological academic community than our issues, such as Schizophrenia for example, it affects far more people and plays such a wide scale role in mental functioning that you are simply not going to find as much interest in the various transgender groups then you will for that.

Unfortunately the only groups that have really received a great deal of attention in terms of research are Transsexual subjects, and intersex subjects at least in the realm of neuroscience. There is as of yet very little actual science that groups Crossdressers, Intersex, Gender Neutral, and Transsexual individuals together. These bonds primarily exist as ones of political convenience in order to fight for various gender based rights.

Its just import to keep in mind that when it comes to science, academics and scientists really only care about the research and scientific definitions. The political and social grouping is rarely of interest to them, so when the presenter you heard spoke about it he was likely talking about it from a very very different perspective.

[Guest]

Being a straight transvestite is difficult, I too am looking for who I am...

[Guest KatyDesire]

Believe it or not, there is an International Journal of Transgenderism. It can be subscribed to online. Unfortunately it is quite small - only about 6 articles, 3 times a year.

Anyhow. In the most recent edition there is quite an interesting article. The comparison is made with the "phantom limb" syndrome. That is where people have lost a limb, but it feels to them as though it is still there.

They suggest that in trans people there is the awareness of being at least part opposite gender, even though they don't look like it physically. The cross dressing is then an attempt to make the outside more congruent with the inside. This would then explain the feeling of relief when one dresses. It also explains why even under - dressing gives at least a degree of relief, even though the full effect is limited because of the lack of opportunity to dress fully. However, many people can still find enough comfort to function normally.

I don't know if this is right, but it would explain quite a lot of my experiences, at least.

I think this subject can be researched, but, as with any research, there are always going to be mistakes, until further work clarifies things.

I still think that lecturer was plain wrong.

Hugs all round.

[Guest cerise]

took a look at the site and the cost per issue night be a little steep

[Guest Eve Caillard]

That's a useful discovery, Katy. Thank you!