Womens' clothes make me feel more like a man...

[Guest Jo-I-Dunno]

So here's the deal: I've been on HRT for over 5 years now and I've known I want to be a woman much longer than that. But every time I've tried on women's clothes, it's been a pretty disheartening experience. Dressed as a man, I see myself in the mirror and think "you have such a young, feminine (but still distinctly male) face with so much potential", and that's a good feeling. But when in womens' clothes, I think "whoa, this doesn't fit right. You look ridiculous. I don't see how this is ever going to work." I give it a shot every year or so with a different clothing style and it's always the same result. It's getting pretty frustrating.

I'm planning an orchiectomy in July; hopefully that kickstarts an additional round of feminization. I want full SRS, but I doubt anyone would recommend me for it in my current state. I'm saving up for FFS and possibly a BA in a year or two, but I'd always hoped it wouldn't come to that. I dream of the day when I'll be able to just roll out of bed and throw on whatever and look like a woman, and I used ot have no doubt I'd reach that day, but now I'm starting to.

Has anyone else had similar frustrations with clothing? Did you ever get past it? Part of me thinks I'm just a butch woman who prefers men's clothing, but an increasingly larger part of me thinks that's constructed justification for that fact that I think I look ridiculous dressed as a woman.

[Guest Raya]

Well Jo, not so much the clothing, but today I just received 2 wigs I ordered, and I wanted to gag after I tried them on - made me think "who am I trying to fool".

I just looked ridiculous.

So, it was a bummer, but with help I will figure it out - with my lack of hair a wig is going to be a part of my future.

I'm sure you can find a style you like, even if it is not stereotypically "womens"

[Drea]

I know that seeing how some talk, how much they enjoy the clothes one could easily start thinking that if they don't share that, don't find dressing "femme" comforting that maybe one isn't trans.

I think, well I know, you are not unique. Thing is that dressing more "femme" can highlight how un-femme our bodies are. Thus how more guy-ish our bodies are than we desire.

[Guest Kate]

Jo,

I know exactly how you feel. I've got nice skinny legs but I'm still carrying 40ish (the number's going down but not nearly as fast as I'd like) extra pounds up top and with a lot of feminine styles I look like a golf ball on a tee. We are always our own worst critic though and you probably don't look nearly as ridiculous as you think you do. Find things you like that play up your good assets a bit and downplay those you don't like a bit (don't expect to be able to hide them completely, not gonna happen, we can always see our own flaws real or not) and go with it. Your confidence will improve and with it your perception of your appearance, but if you keep giving up you'll be stuck in a rut forever. Remember two things, it's really hard for most cis women to find clothes that work for their bodies too, and it's just as likely for something to look hideous on a hanger and great on your body as the other way around so try lots of stuff on (having a shopping fanatic for a sister is helpful for this but is also exhausting).

Kate

[Guest Ripley]

In my humble opinion, you look great without FFS. From your recent photos, I'd honestly never pick you out of a crowd as being trans. I'd also be willing to bet that a big part of the clothing problems is that you're simply not used to womens clothing. It can be very hard to find the right fit for our bodies and choice of style, and trust me that's not something that's limited to trans women. Similar articles of clothing can fit very differently depending on the manufacturer... the only fix is to try on everything in the fitting rooms. If one thing doesn't fit, try something else. Always remember that there is no one perfect "female form". Even cis women have many different sizes, heights, and bone structures. It takes persistence to find what fits you best. Enjoying clothes shopping doesn't hurt either.

In the end, the most important thing is to wear what makes you happy and comfortable. If you do decide that you just want to wear mens clothing, that's cool! The clothes you wear are not what make you a woman.

[Guest]

Hey Jo I usualky feel exactly like this. You're definitely not alone. I have found that continued exposure makes you a bit more used to it and less disheartening but yeah - I often feel most like a man when putting on girls clothes. It sucks.

[Sally]

I'll just jump in here and tell you that I never thought that I would ever be able to be accepted as a woman, thus the long wait until 58 to begin my transition.

The time between my knowing that I was trans at age 4 and the start of my transition were some very troubling 54 years.

I would dress and never be happy with how I looked, just all I could see was male, it took a long time before I ever got to see the woman that everyone else told me was there.

I'm 6'3" and about an extra 85 pounds but everywhere I go I am greeted as a woman. it doesn't matter what I'm wearing and I have pretty much relegated make up for special occasions but I am greeted as a woman.

I recently returned from a trip to Austin, TX with my sister and without fail whenever a man got on the elevator with us they would always talk to me. I have been told by other trans people that my voice will always give me away but it hasn't been the case.

The hardest part to manage is the fact that confidence is the key to being accepted, if you don't feel that you are looking like a woman, they will pick up on that.

You have a very pretty face, relax and accept that no one has the perfect body, face or hair and learn to be happy with what you do have.

Love ya,

Sally

[JJ]

Jo what you see and what other people see are probably very different things. We have been conditioned-deeply conditioned-to see ourselves as what society told us we were and it can be very, very hard to overcome that. I know that I am seen as male by everyone now. Even people who knew me before. Some are even forgetting I was ever different after just 4 short years and yet sometimes when I look in a mirror - or even see a pic-some part of me questions how that can be so. Why they see someone they don't question and I see something different. I know the answer to that is that I am seeing a ghost image. What my mind has been conditioned and expects to see even after all this time.

Your avatar shows a definitely female face. I can't judge your mannerisms of course but I strongly suspect if I saw you dressed as a woman all I would see is a woman. And in men's clothing I would wonder at the feminine look to the skin and the rounding. I'd see a guy with a problem and feel for him at best.

If the problem is coming from within then no surgery or anything else from the outside will ever be enough. It's something to work through. Really look at how people are reacting and what they are feeding back to you as well. I've known some absolutely gorgeous women who never had any confidence and always saw an ugly woman in the mirror because they had been plain or ugly little girls who bloomed later. That same thing can, and I know does, happen to us. You can change it to a very large extent. When it happens to me (and it would be really weird actually if it didn't after transitioning in my 60s and all that conditioning ) I refuse to let myself say negative things to myself. It serves no purpose. Doesn't help me in any way. And I talk back to myself inside that I AM a man and it is only a ghost I see. Not saying it's always easy but it is possible to change or redirect those thoughts.

As far as clothes-what I wear doesn't make me a man or a woman. Admittedly I sometimes see something female and think -I would have liked that. And I dress a little better than the vast majority of men around here. But women have a lot more leeway - I know quite a few who never ever wear dresses and live in jeans and tees. Some hate looking all girly but are no less female or even less feminine for that. We are what we are.

As long as it is in the large and loose framework of societal norms then I think people should dress to express themselves and please themselves rather than the way the think others expect them to do. I don't wear the female things that I did like anymore, nor do I wear the full on rock or younger guy stuff I am clearly too old for but like and would like to wear. But I do wear younger clothes than is the norm for my age here. I don't like the other clothes and they don't express me. I do wear some edgier stuff but not enough to get looks or comments. Sometimes with transition we start out living the stereotypes we have in our mind rather than the person inside but the whole feminine frills and dresses thing is really just that-a stereotype that you don't have to buy into any more than any other woman. People who say you do are the ones with a problem and not you

The phrase "comfort zone " has some relevance too I think. When we are not used to dressing as who we are sometimes it is uncomfortable. Feels like we may be looking ridiculous. Keep on dressing as who you are and in time that becomes your new comfort zone. You can't change or grow any other way.

Rock who you are. Live who you are and in time the rest comes more and more into line as far as my experience.

Johnny

[Guest]

Jo I want to echo the sentiment again on your looks - though I know it really matters how you see yourself. At worse you look like a non-passing trans guy. And I think you'd have to conciously try to get people to think that.

[Guest alexaz]

What you said...

I look like a man in a dress for now and I cant do anything about it for the time being.

This keeps me from going out dressed except to my womans meetings at the center but ......

Dressing for me right now isnt about how I look, Its about how I feel about myself.

Some day when I present myself out and about I hope to look more like a woman and I know what I like as far as clothing ( I have never been a fashion statement, I just wear what I like )

But for now. Dressing makes me 'FEEL' more like the woman I am and I dont pay much attention to how it looks.

I love how it makes me feel and thats all thats important to me right now.

I dont know if this will help you, but try the feeling on instead of the looks for now and maybe the looks will come in time.

Also may I chime in here and say you look very , very fem in your photo. Wish I looked as good as you.

And also ... some ladies look great in mens suits and clothing giggle.... I like that look.

Alexaz

[VickySGV]

We hit a point where it becomes "our clothing" and not Womens Clothing or men's clothing simply it is our clothing. We do battle against the old self image effort and in the past it was Armageddon to get us into femme looks because we were afraid someone would find out. I never wore a Halloween costume that was female until the year I came out and was living full time. I was so far in denial that I missed a chance in High School to actually wear a girls drill team outfit for a Letterman's Club skit during a student / faculty ball game. Now whatever I wear is "my clothing" and I do not attempt to give it a gender.

[Guest Jo-I-Dunno]

Thanks everyone. I'm aware I'm my own worst critic. But since I just can't see a woman when I look in the mirror (or hear a woman when I record my own voice), even if I was totally accepted as a woman I'd think people were just being polite. I'd be stuck in eternal doubt. I'm aware of the concept of impostor syndrome, but I've been told on several occasions I have the opposite problem: I'm too cocky.

Right now, dressed in men's clothes, I almost always get "sir". I've seen strangers stare at me an unusually long time, and those people who call me sir sometimes hesitate first, but "sir" is their ultimate conclusion even if I don't open my mouth. Despite all this, I do get the occasional "miss" or "ma'am" while not even trying, and that feels amazing. That's what I want all the time. I think only then will I be comfortable in women's clothes; I'd know then that it's not the clothes that's telling people what pronouns to use. The fact that I've been on HRT for 5 years and haven't gotten to that point tells me surgery is the only option. But, who knows, maybe my soon-to-be orchiectomy will be all it takes! If not, then maybe I'd only require minimal FFS to get to that point. I want a tracheal shave either way.

I think the femininity of my face varies at different angles. Straight on I'm pretty happy with how I look, but it bugs me from the side. I'm no expert with faces, so I can't pinpoint why it bugs me, but it just does. And when I see myself topless in the mirror, I think to myself "boobs wouldn't look very out of place on this body..."

I have some friends coming in from out of town to drive me to and from the orchiectomy and to hang around a few days while I recover. Maybe we'll go shopping one of those days. I'd be way too embarrassed to poke around the women's section alone, but maybe it'd be different with a female friend.

Either way, I'm feeling better today than when I wrote that first post. Thanks again, everyone.

[Guest alexaz]

I think the femininity of my face varies at different angles. Straight on I'm pretty happy with how I look, but it bugs me from the side. I'm no expert with faces, so I can't pinpoint why it bugs me, but it just does. And when I see myself topless in the mirror, I think to myself "boobs wouldn't look very out of place on this body..."

Ummmmm ok Jo Im confsed. but I usually am so its no difference lol

You say you have been on HRT for over 5 years but in this quote above you say you see your body in a mirror and think "boobs wouldn't look very out of place on this body..."

Are you saying that HRT didnt give you any boobs ?

It was my understanding that when on HRT your chest glands grow starting around a month to a few months and continue to grow for a few years.

Am I wrong here ?

I understand that everyone is different but it sounds like your saying that you have no growth yet and Im confused as to why.

I hope that Im not out of line here and if so I apologise.

alexaz

[Guest]

My feeling was looking or feeling silly. It was a matter of me working through that and telling myself that's just me, I'm being me. The frequency of my feeling silly has been reducing since I started therapy.

Good luck, sweety.

-Fiona

[Guest Jo-I-Dunno]

No, you're not out of line at all. I do have breasts, but they're just not very big is all, especially on my broad male chest.

[Guest alexaz]

Ahhhhh ok

Thanks for clearing that up for me JO

Works for me Im not really into big-uns anyway. giggle...

And I still say you have a very fem looking face.

alexaz.

[Guest Nicodeme]

I'm coming from the other direction but have the same problem, so at least know you're not alone in it, I guess. Menswear just makes me feel worse about my body because it reminds me of what I have too much of. It's unflattering and uncomfortable on my current body. I just keep a few mens-styled womens shirts on hand for particularly bad days, but I'm usually wearing black v-necks because they don't specifically indicate I'm trying for any specific presentation. Therefore, I won't end up feeling like I've missed the mark.

[Guest Syd_UK]

well for my part i am in a womans body and i have the experience of feeling utterly ridiculous in some womens clothing... before i knew i was male i would have huge problems dressing in certain clothes because i just didnt feel feminine... and i have a very feminine body..

i think it depends on the clothing. i want to try maybe wearing more "masculine" versions of female clothing... to try to get used to wearing more male clothing.. well i do that alot anyway but..

oh, i dont know. depends how i feel i suppose. but i will never again wear a skirt. i always hated them, they make me feel vunerable and i hate it.

i think certain clothes suit some people more than others... like .. sometimes even the colour will make something feel sort of wrong i think. or the cut...

complicated business sometimes, clothes