Society's G.i.r.l- M.a.l.e

[Guest Zenda]

Pass= Be identified, regarded, accepted, or mistaken for someone or something else…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_(gender)

Kia Ora,

It’s a pet hate topic for some and often pops up in posts-some feel uncomfortable with the term others don’t, however, ’passing’ seems to be the most common term used by trans-people when explaining a situation - so it would be interesting to hear what alternatives are available...

For example I often use ‘blend in’ but there are other terms perhaps not as explicit like, Socially= ‘authenticated’ … Fully =‘assimilated’ ‘absorbed’ ‘integrated’ -terms that have similar meaning…

In the past I’ve used the term G.I.R.L which stands for ‘Gender Identity Recognition Level’ for example when one as reached society’s G.I.R.L =Passing... Or for North Americans G.A.L = Gender Acceptance Level [However, most Trans-males won't find these terms appealing]... Perhaps they would prefer society's M.A.L.E =Masculinity Acceptance Level Endorsed...

If you don’t like the term ‘passing’ what other term would/could/do you use?

This topic has been through the mill a few times but it is interesting…

Metta Jendar

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I think that here in the USA we are told so much about passing or failing in school, we now associate the words as okay or not okay. Or yes you made it or no, you are a failure.

"Pass= Be identified, regarded, accepted, or mistaken for someone or something else… " maybe, but more like "you have been tested and pass!" or the opposite "you have been tested and fail!"

So to go out dressed and pass is to be judged as well as 'accepted." I suppose by default it could mean you have gone out dressed an been 'identified' in your PREFERED gender. Or 'mistaken' as a person who actually had a different birth assigned sex (terrible analogy).

LATER, when living fully and 'passing' it seems the terminology reverts back to being 'accepted.' People accept you as you present. So you 'pass.'

I my opinion, there is where the word needs replacement.

If you 'blend in" it seems likely it's a stealth situation.

If you are 'authenticated," it seems others know but accept you as authentic because they recognize you are more than just your body. I, for example feel like I am an authentic woman, but my body need some fine tuning. If others accept me even when I am not perfect in body, I will feel 'authenticated."

If you are 'assimilated’ ‘absorbed’ ‘integrated’ - donno - maybe others can work that out. Again this seems stealth related.

G.I.R.L.? G.A.L.? M.A.L.E? Kinda cute - but someone probably has to bring this up in a seminar or a paper. Seems like thats how all the anacronyms get stanardized (SRS vs GRS for example - which will prevail?) And HRT? And RTL?

My favorite that is grassroots - YMMV - your mileage may vary.

Passing? How about just accepting yourself and let others see you as you are? If that is "passing" so much the better!

Just some opinions

Lizzy

[Guest Liam]

If you don’t like the term ‘passing’ what other term would/could/do you use?

I'm not a huge fan of the term "passing." It seems to place the burden on me, as though it were my fault if I didn't "pass," like it's my fault if I don't pass an exam or something. I prefer to say that I'm "being read" as male (or female, as the case may be), or that people "read" me as such. Because, ultimately, I just present how I'm going to present, and it's not my fault if people don't read me as male. It takes a lot of stress out of the whole thing when you think of it in that way.

[Sally]

'Passing' is a term that has been used for centuries by any group that has been outside of society looking in.

Doesn't that discribe us?

Everyone should be familiar with the term in use to describe a pale skinned (Lord help me I can not think of the Politically Correct term for African Americans if they aren't Americans - this site is global and this is a PC topic) 'people of color' with fewer of the secondary ethnic indicating features.

That would seem to apply.

Also used for the ability of an intelligence agent to work among the groups being observed without detection - sounds like 'going stealth'.

'Blend in' sounds like giving up yourself to become part of society and that is what I have been doing for so long.

I do not choose to be 'assimilated’ - I don't want to be a part of the 'collective', the Borg are not allowed free thought! (There are a lot of Star Trek fans out there and I don't want to promote Sci-fi villains as an image.)

'Absorbed' is also a term for ingested, while 'integrated' reminds me of all of the problems with racial integration from my teen years and I can only associate it with riots, I would prefer a more peaceful 'passing' (there it is again) - I don't need to be 'authenticated' by anyone else - these terms indicate that one 'requires' validation from others not just acceptance.

Your suggested terms would only work in writing unless you subscribe to Victor Borge's comedy routine about spoken punctuation - most people do not want to hear you spell to them all of the time - so I think that 'passing' and 'fitting in' work for me.

Just my thoughts - you asked for them.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Pól_Eire]

I don't particularly mind "passing," but I tend not to read too much into it. Liam's making a lot of sense to me here. I agree with him.

-Pól

[Guest Chrissie]

I don't particularly mind "passing," but I tend not to read too much into it. Liam's making a lot of sense to me here. I agree with him.

-Pól

As I think passing is a Luxury... or a bonus...I don't really think about it that much. Though I enjoy it when it happens

[Guest April63]

I don't have a problem with the term passing. I think it's fine. Blending in, maybe. Assimilated, possibly. Passing works.

April

[Guest Kelly Ann]

I think it's very good input Jendar. Very thoughtful and well presented...on a topically relevant subject. I seem to get looks regardless of how I am presenting so I just have to pass as myself and be satisfied with that, and I am...I suppose that some of it has to do with eye contact as that is an exception rather than the rule. It's a dying art, sadly. Could it be that in trying to 'pass' any lack of confidence puts an invisible sign thats felt more than observed to a passerby? I really like the 'assimilated' thought as isn't that the penultimate goal regardless of the targeted gendar? Please keep these thought provoking posts going. Your a real treat, Kelly Ann

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Thinking on this some more.. I feel we ALL like the idea of being accepted as we present ourselves. As an older transsexual, I have the priviledge of saying 'who cares' if I 'pass' or get 'clocked." It some one else's problem if they don't accept me for who I am.

Then I go and try EVERYTHING I can to 'pass.' It's like a 'dual' dual nature.

Go figure.

And where does 'clocked' come from?

Lizzy

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Dear Lizzy,

I have seen your pictures here and in your gallery. My Dear... you pass!! Don't ever worry about that!!

LOL

bernie

[Guest RainBird]

I think I look sort of ok in my photos as I have the opportunity to pose and 'enhance' my looks so to speak with favourable lightning situations,.

I've lived full time for almost 2 years now and I know I don't always pass to others well in the real, some see me and others don't.. I suppose I need to be more patient as I have only been 11 months into my HRT. I really look rather androgynous or 'neutral' more than female at the moment but my adams apple, shoulders and forehead brow is a real downside to me, things that just cannot be concealed well.

[Guest Zenda]

And where does 'clocked' come from?

Lizzy

Kia Ora Liz,

It’s quite possible the term ‘clocked’ stems from when people had to ‘clock in’ at work, to let the employer ‘know’ that they were present=hence being clocked means ‘awareness/knowledge’ of something…Now I could be wrong, but it does seeeeeem to make sense [well to me it does]...

Sorry for such a long delay in responding to your question…

Metta Jendar

[Guest nymphblossom]

"Clocking" in a mechanical sense mens orienting something to its proper position. In this sense, it is a good way to describe not passing.

Blossom

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

I made a slight joke in another post elsewhere: "I passed (as a girl, not a football)"

how about instead of passing, or integrating or being accepted as, how about just simply 'considered'?

"I guess I passed as female because the people around me considered me female and treated me as such."

I guess that works best in past tense.

[Guest AshleyRF]

I'm just happy when I fly under their radar. I dunno if I pass or not.

On the other hand... Tom Brady can pass rather well, and looks darn good doing it. YUMMY!!!!!

"Ashley is being a bad girl again"

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

I made a slight joke in another post elsewhere: "I passed (as a girl, not a football)"

how about instead of passing, or integrating or being accepted as, how about just simply 'considered'?

"I guess I passed as female because the people around me considered me female and treated me as such."

I guess that works best in past tense.

If you can do your day to day things out in the world and not be snickered at, pointed at or laughed at

if you dont raise eyebrows when you need to  use the ladies

If the fitting room attendent doesnt bat an eye when you go to try on something

then I think you are accepted

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

Pass= Be identified, regarded, accepted, or mistaken for someone or something else…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_(gender)

Kia Ora,

It's a pet hate topic for some and often pops up in posts-some feel uncomfortable with the term others don't, however, 'passing' seems to be the most common term used by trans-people when explaining a situation - so it would be interesting to hear what alternatives are available...

For example I often use 'blend in' but there are other terms perhaps not as explicit like, Socially= 'authenticated' … Fully ='assimilated' 'absorbed' 'integrated' -terms that have similar meaning…

In the past I've used the term G.I.R.L which stands for 'Gender Identity Recognition Level' for example when one as reached society's G.I.R.L =Passing... Or for North Americans G.A.L = Gender Acceptance Level [However, most Trans-males won't find these terms appealing]... Perhaps they would prefer society's M.A.L.E =Masculinity Acceptance Level Endorsed...

If you don't like the term 'passing' what other term would/could/do you use?

This topic has been through the mill a few times but it is interesting…

Metta Jendar

Not keen on assimilated.. makes me feel too much like and encounter with the borg

I use pass, passing, passed because of a type of universal understanding that the term has

for me its being just another woman on the sidewalk (or pavement for those in the UK, AUS and NZ)

[Sally]

My goal is not to pass but indeed to be as unnoticed and invisible as I have become accustomed to in my male persona.

There is a certain comfort level to being totally ignored - it seems safe.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

There is a certain comfort level to being totally ignored - it seems safe.

Very true!

Now you know you pass when Boy Scouts are helping you cross the street.

(but they only do that to little old ladies)

[Guest Donna Jean]

My goal is not to pass but indeed to be as unnoticed and invisible as I have become accustomed to in my male persona.

There is a certain comfort level to being totally ignored - it seems safe.

Love ya,

Sally

YEP! That says it all...invisible..un-nioticed...ordinary, everyday person...

That's what and where I want to be......

Huggs

Donna Jean

[Guest AshleyRF]

What, no one else here thinks Tom Brady, the quarterback for the New England Patriots is a hottie? OMG!!!!! What's wrong with you all? He's the only darn reason I watch football.

[Guest AshleyRF]

If you can do your day to day things out in the world and not be snickered at, pointed at or laughed at

if you dont raise eyebrows when you need to  use the ladies

If the fitting room attendent doesnt bat an eye when you go to try on something

then I think you are accepted

So far so good then. Now if I could only become pretty I'd be all set.

[Sakura]

while i dont mind any of those terms i hve stopped thinking in terms of passing not passing i have be come so accustom to being treated as a woman that it dosnt even cross my mind any more

i think some obcess over it to the point that it gets them read kinda like they are running down a check list of things in their head walking like a woman check talking like a woman check sitting like a woman check "oh wait a guy is coming toward me what do i do what do i do ..........aaaaw did i really just nod at him ??!!"

the only term i really dont like is "stealth" i think it implies one is trying to go into territory they dont belong in

i mean when i go to the ER or hospital and need xrays the lab techs ask me if im pregnant or maybe pregnant when my last period was or in the ladies room complete strangers ask me if i got a spare tampon or midol in my purse i must be doing something right ?

Sakura

PS tom brady does look like a tasty snack but im a fan of the mannings

[Guest AshleyRF]

The Mannings? EWWWW!!!! They are just fugly...... redneck looking guys.... ewwwwww... reminds me of every other guy down here.

[Sakura]

i said fan didnt say they were hot though eli looks pretty good in those tights

im a colts fan though so far they are 5-0 does little dance payton dont gotta be hot so long as he wins lol

Sakura