zero-depth vaginoplasty?

[Guest Markietoo]

Hello all,

I have a question to put out there and seek some information and opinion on a choice that has been presented to me. I'm meeting with the staff in two weeks for the half day surgical consultation and evaluation but they wanted to let me consider an alternative to the full neo vagina procedure. The offered what they called a zero-depth vaginoplasty, wherein all the external tissues are put in place but no internal vagina is created. No lifetime dilation required. A valid alternative that is available for me. Being in a committed monogamous marriage already with my wife and with both of us planning to stay that way, even after the surgery, it's hard to envision sexual relations with a man would present itself, as much as I would like to experience it with the right 'equipment' in place. Looking 'right' down there would be wonderful and obviously, all my clothes would fit better too. After almost two years living full time, that is no small thing to get resolved.

Many women have had to have their vagina's removed for medical reasons and live without it. If I chose that route, my equipment and theirs would appear the same but it wouldn't be original equipment! I'm torn about my decision and would like to hear from anyone who chose that path and how it worked out for them. Information about others experiences is hard to find so anyone with some concrete info to share would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Markie Anna

[Guest]

I toyed with that idea and asked that same question about a year ago. Yes you could, but then I chose the working model. The idea of sharing toys with my girl friend was the over riding appeal. Giggle.

[Charlize]

While i'm afraid that my medical condition would make such a procedure impossible it was something i considered. I also am in a long term relationship (44+ years) and could never see myself dilating several times a day. I can understand your feelings and quandary. I feel fortunate to have finally gotten an orchiectomy. Tucking is so easy and while i was working outside a few days ago the ability to "use a tree" was certainly handy.

I would certainly involve your therapist as well.

Hugs,

Charlize

[Jani]

Markie,

I had long ago heard of the zero depth operation and thought with my marital situation, which is similar to yours, it would be an acceptable alternative. Though I’m not even close to making a decision, my GT has asked about my thoughts for a vaginaplasty. Being of a certain age I commented that buying something to just look at but never use would be foolish given the expense and upkeep involved. The thought of continuous dilation is not something I would look forward to. It would be so nice to have operational gear down there but the negatives seem to vastly outweigh the positives. I think zero depth would give me 95 to 99% of what I want. When the time comes I will strongly consider this option.

Jani

[Guest]

When I was the outdoor pre-op girl I always squatted. Except once, curiosity and all. I hated myself for a week! I felt like I betrayed me...

New day: I used to press myself down so the sound in the water was correct. Now if mindless old habits came into play, I was rewarded with getting my fingers peed on. Once or twice of that I reprogrammed quickly. Giggle.

It's great to be a woman, no shake, no dance, no bulge in my pants! LOL! Hug. JodyAnn

[Guest KerryUK]

Hi Markie,

I've had the procedure back in June. Here in the UK they call it the Cosmetic Vaginoplasty.

It is just as described to you. The outside looks like a ciswoman's but there is no cavity. So whilst I can't have sex with a man, nor do I have to dilate. My partner often remarks that she can't tell the difference between a cisv and mine - she works in a hospital and sees lots.

I haven't got much time now but hope this helps.

Kerry x

[Guest Markietoo]

Thanks Kerry, I appreciate the information. I have to say that getting info on this has proved to be somewhat challenging. I'm meeting with a surgeon next week and we'll discuss all options then. I've read some rather sneering comments in past posts on LP from prior years on the topic that generated strong opinions pro and con for lots of reasons on both sides. What's a "REAL" trans-woman and what's not, if you wish to even consider anyone else's opinion on the subject. Frankly, only my own opinion counts when all is said and done. Still researching and thinking on the subject.

Markie Anna

[Guest KerryUK]

Hi Markie,

You're very welcome. I remember how difficult it was when I was trying to find out more about the procedure. So, I hope it helped.

I've got very strong feelings about the 'true trans' argument. Basically, we are all different and what works for one person does not necessarily work for another. What's between my legs is my business and nobody elses - the decision was mine to make and I most certainly wasn't going to make my decision based on somebody elses idea of what I 'should' or 'should not' have. That's just ridiculous. Afterall, I'm the one who has to live with the results of my decision and nobody else (apart from my partner).

I decided to have the cosmetic version because I have no desire to be penetrated by a man and nor do I envisage a baby coming out of there (the two main points of having a v). I couldn't face the thought of the risks involved with the full vaginoplasty and nor could I have coped with the dilations immediately post op and for the rest of my life - so the decision was quite straight forward for me. I was very pleased in the first weeks post op not to have to start dilating because I had enough other things to deal with. As time goes by, I remain pleased with the results (which get better and better as the swelling reduces and things settle down there).

Kerry x.

[Guest G-A-L-E]

Hello Kerry, regardless of functionality of vagina you wont be flagged by TSA for having an 'anomaly' on your body during the full body scan!

Anne

[Guest KerryUK]

Hi Anne,

Thanks very much for your kind post - I am grateful, it's just that erm......

What's TSA?

TransSexual ?

If I know that, then the rest will make more sense. Sorrrrrreeeeeeeeeee.

Kerry x.

[Jani]

TSA: Transportation Security Agency. This is the government arm that is the gatekeeper of our airports here in the USA. In order to proceed to the boarding gate one has to submit to an X-ray screening and possible pat down. If your ID states "F" and the X-ray scan looks like "M" then that's an anomaly in their eyes and you're subjected to all kinds of unkind scrutiny. A lot of press recently about a woman flying out of Florida who missed her flight and was greatly embarrassed. Of course TSA claimed they were following proper procedures.

Jani

[Guest Markietoo]

Hi Jani,

I read your post with interest since I'm flying into Ft. Lauderdale on Tuesday to attend the SSC there and leaving from there on Sunday to head home. I hope I don't fall into the same trap that this poor woman did. All of my ID and gender markers have been female for the past year so maybe I won't have any problems. We shall see what happens. I'll be sure to post it here is any issues present themselves. With hundreds of trans folks headed their way next week, those TSA lovelies better be prepared for us!

Markie Anna

[Guest G-A-L-E]

Hello Anne here, if you are non-op/pre-op and present in the gender of your choice and don't want to get flagged by TSA, then opt-out of the Body Scanner. Request pat down. You have rights, you just have to claim them!

Beware when an officer makes a request of you, it's not necessarily an order. Ask for clarification. You must comply with an order or risk arrest.

It might be a good idea to glam or butch (dependent on gender) it up more when traveling via air. Wear a dress or skirt. Pat down might feel good!

More here: http://transequality.org/know-your-rights/airport-security

Thank you,

Anne

EOM

[Guest KerryUK]

Thanks very much for the clarification ladies.

I have been through airports pre-op and presenting en femme and there was no problem (my passport identified me as female) but I wasn't going through a U.S. Airport. At the time, I always carried a letter from my GIC stating that I was in transition - just in case.

I am intrigued by the scanner at an airport picking up physical bodily 'anomalies'. I was 'tucking' 24/7 for 10 years prior to my start of transition and so I wonder exactly what they WERE able to see when I passed through the airports.

Sorry if I seem to be hijacking the thread Markie. Just curious.

Kerry x

[Guest G-A-L-E]

Hello Kerry, not really a hijack but rather affirmation that a vagina in any shape or form is still a vagina. Pretty sure the jerks at TSA would agree. They probably prefer a zero depth vagina!

Anne

[Guest]

I must have been lucky pre-op on my way to Bangkok I had little Mister and the boys plus $9,000 USD in my panties under blue jeans, zipped right through. They didn't bat an eye. Giggle.

I can't speak for domestic flights, just Sky Harbor, San Francisco, Tokyo and Bangkok's BKK. I did carry my medical history, surgery appointment and money paper trail on a flash drive on a lanyard around my neck. Great, no questions asked! Hug. JodyAnn

[Guest Markietoo]

Kerry, no issue with anything that's been added to this thread. All information is appreciated and this issue with the American TSA at the airports is not a small thing. If there is body scanner in use I will ask for a pat down instead since that seems less likely to lead to any unfortunate 'bits' on their idiotic machine. All my ID's are female and that's how I look too so I'd expect them to use the 'female' model settings to peek under my clothes. The anomaly may show up either way but no way to know so whatever happens I'll pass on here to help others. Any one else run into this situation?

Oh, and thanks again for the PM information too! You're a doll!

Markie Anna

[Guest KerryUK]

Aw, bless you Marlie and you are very welcome. It's actually been a very interesting thread.

Kerry x

[Guest Markietoo]

Back from the SCC. Here's the TSA story flying out of Sacramento, California on September 29th. No option to go anywhere other than into the big scanner. Got stopped immediately by a female TSA agent saying there was an 'anomaly in your groin area". I told her I was a transgender woman. No response to that whatsoever, just a blank stare. "We're going to pat you down. Do you want to do this in private?" I told her no, I wanted it out in public for everyone to see it. She called over another female agent. "I'm going to touch your breasts and groin". "Spread you legs and hold up your arms". Using the back of her hands she rubbed my breasts all over and then the rest of my body, focusing big time on the "anomaly" on the scanner. And none too gently she pushed rather roughly all over my groin: front, sides and underneath. If I hadn't have the delicate bits tucked safely away that would have been even more uncomfortable than it was already. I'm no delicate flower and legally female already awaiting GCS this upcoming year. An unnecessary humiliating experience all the way around. One of my friends attending the conference too was traveling as a male since her documents haven't been officially changed yet. Her "anomaly" was in the chest area since she's been on HRT and has significant breast development. In her case they scanned as a male and therefore had a male agent. He grabbed her breasts with both hands and squeezed and rubbed them like he was in some bad porn movie! An awful experience for her and excessive even by TSA standards.

This situation is deliberately targeting transgender men and women in my opinion. Even when are able to prove our transgender status with legal court documents, we are being treated as potential terrorists! Absurd. The cold attitude of the TSA folks I dealt with is also unnecessary. I don't see then changing it any time soon but something should be done to protect our right to privacy and unnecessary groping in the course of their duties as they see them.

Any thoughts on this all you girls and boys out there?

[Guest KerryUK]

Thanks for posting Markie,

What an unpleasant experience for both of you and to be honest I'm quite disgusted. It actually made me feel quite sick. I'm also interested to hear other's opinions on here.

Kerry x.

[Guest Markietoo]

Whoops, I forgot to follow up on my original topic and the half day surgical consultation/evaluation last week. A very intense series of conversations with the staff at the Multi-Specialty Transitions Program in Oakland, California. An hour with two therapists, an hour with a social worker, an hour with two surgeons (a plastic surgeon and a urologist), and another hour with a Registered Nurse. Finally a last meeting with the two surgeons and the two GT's to tell me about their decision on my request for surgery. Lots of smiles and support while telling me that they all concurred to approve my request! Yeah me!!! No date yet so await that but will be in 2016, around 6 months they said. We'll see what happens with that time frame. Just knowing it's out there waiting for me is a wonderful thing. After all these years, a few more months isn't problematic for me.

I'm going to write a new post soon with my decision on which procedure I'm getting and why I chose it. The conversations I had with this team of people really clarified my choice going forward.

Markie Anna

[VickySGV]

Gee whiz, I spend four days paling around with you IRL last week and you did not tell me any of the two posts you just made!! (OK maybe I was not listening or hearing at the time!!) I am so happy to hear about the surgery thing for you!! It is yours and you own it big time!! I really feel like I am failing the Trans* community with my TSA experiences, because all of my encounters have been unremarkable to say the best, and that includes a Female presentation, male body, male name & ID trip in 2011, a Female presentation, female name but male gender ID, and male body in 2012, and of course now female all the way for two years. I did get the back of the hand check in 2012, but the experience was short and only mildly distasteful. There was not a heckuva lot to be felt there anyway. The odd one was checking my pony tail in 2012, but it was light touch only, and I learned to have my hair down when I travel now. No big deal. The ID screener at all airports I have used in the last two years must see something on my DL, but I have gotten pass through clearance and did not even have to take off shoes or belts, and did not have to have full body scans. What is wrong with me??

[Guest KerryUK]

Fantastic news Markie and I'll look forward to reading about your decision.

I've decided to write a blog about the Cosmetic Vaginoplasty and so hope it will help others - I found it so frustrating that there seemed so little information about the procedure. Hopefully my blog will address that.

Kerry x

[Jani]

Markie thats great news, Congratulations! I'm sure you're excited. I look forward to your upcoming posts.

Jani

[Guest G-A-L-E]

Hello Everyone, as unfortunate as encounters with TSA or law enforcement might be, they are doing their job to keep us safe. Not sure we want to get into exactly how black and white the situation really is.

My job duties routinely put me at risk of arrest and scrutiny. The fear of getting thrown in jail with men always gnawed at me. In fact hindered my ability to work.

Recently while on a date with a prominent? law enforcement official, I was told in a very blunt manner the fact of the matter. Very much confirmed what I suspected all along.

Yet another reason why undergoing SRS ASAP became my single-minded mission and first feminization surgery. Now I am back in the field and in the fight! In my opinion passing (even as an ugly woman) is important right down to what’s between your legs.

Thank you,

Anne