Joey Salads "Transgender in Women's Bathroom (social experiment)"

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

Have you heard about this Joey Salads "social experiment" that he did recently? It's on YouTube (the title is the same as the thread topic title).

In short, he dresses up in women's clothing and attempts to pass as a woman, go into the women's bathroom, and see what kind of reactions he receives. Thankfully he doesn't record video inside the women's bathroom but just outside the door so you don't totally see what's happening but you can clearly hear the audio. After several attempts and being yelled at and told to get out numerous times, he then concludes based on his "social experiment" that most women are uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a transgender person.

...right.

Here's a link to the video for you to copy/paste into your browser. Mods, if this is against TOS, I understand if you must remove it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CHt7EBCgJnI

Okay, so, I have issues with this video. First, he says he's going to 'act transgender'. I'm not really sure how one acts transgender. Secondly, his dressing up in women's clothing is half-hearted but he justifies it by saying this would be representative of someone first starting to transition. He wears a wig (fine) which doesn't totally cover all his hair (not fine). He puts on women's clothing (fine). He pads a bra (fine). He shaves but doesn't bother to wear makeup, so he has very visible and obvious beard shadow. He waits until a woman is walking into the bathroom and then proceeds to follow her in (creepy!).

"How long have you been transgender for?"

"Just a couple days"

(I'm not even going to touch that one)

I'm surprised he didn't get maced by that last lady. Most of the women read him immediately, which is no surprise considering how much he didn't even try to blend in. Then he concludes from his experiment that most women are uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a transgender person when in fact, all his experiment proved was that most women were uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with _him_ dressed as a woman.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Lizzie McTrucker
Replaced utube page with link

[VickySGV]

Unfortunately, he is following in the footsteps of several academic degree possessing "scientists" who fouled up as badly, and are now considered "experts" by our right wing antagonists.

[Guest KerryUK]

On watching this video, I was so impressed by the scientific approach used in setting up this experiment. Hmmmmm.

I would like to know how much the trans friend had been told about what her approval was being used for. I suspect that she wasn't given all of the facts. In over 3 years since starting official transition, I've never experienced anything like that - very early on, I remember a lady pointing out that the gents were next door. I politely told her that I was female to which she was very apologetic.

He said he was going to 'act' like a transsexual - about as convincingly as a slug saying it's a king cobra. Just because a slug slithers along the ground doesn't make it a snake - it would require some serious effort to make itself be seen as a snake. Putting on a wig and dress does not make a person female - this is why we go through so much, to pass and try to be accepted as female. If I had done what he did in my early stages of transition - I am in no doubt I would probably have received a similar reception.

I hate this sort of experiment carried out with such a cavalier attitude, it doesn't achieve much other than giving bigots more ammunition. It was a one sided argument presented by a bit of an senseless idiot.

Oh, and if he does that to his friends (trans woman who approved his look?), I'd hate to see what he's prepared to do to those he doesn't like.

Kerry

[Charlize]

Kerry "He said he was going to 'act' like a transsexual - about as convincingly as a slug saying it's a king cobra. Just because a slug slithers along the ground doesn't make it a snake" You certainly have that right.

I have never had any trouble in the ladies room. Maybe i could call that an experiment that shows trans* women are totally accepted in the ladies room?

The fact is that laws don't work but in reality the women involved do. without a law they seem to let this creep know he isn't welcome.

Hugs,

Charlize

[Cyndee]

It's a free country after all, so I will exercise my freedom and just say "what a dork !"

C -

[Guest]

it seems obvious to me that when you first start on the transition path that people are uncomfortable with you (often not just in bathrooms).

People are uncomfortable when others do a no2... so yeah.

big deal

the funny thing is when a right wing person spew those kind of arguments at me, that transgender woman are big man with a beard dressing as woman and make others uncomfortable, not understanding I am a transgender woman, lol Male fail? Right Wing fail?

[tracy_j]

I was not impressed!

It looked a little like a scene from the comedy 'Little Britain' (for those that know it).

I think most trangender people would be far more nervous and say little. They would not look so obviously false (they may look false but in a less outgoing way). I has been perhaps well over a year now that I have been using women's bathrooms but I don't even attempt to speak to anyone unless spoken to or there is some other good reason. He seems to be acting as a man rather than as a woman.

For anyone contemplating use of the women's bathroom this is how not to do it! The reality is not usually like this and few people have problems

Tracy

[Guest KerryUK]

Me neither Tracy,

...................He seems to be acting as a man rather than as a woman.

For anyone contemplating use of the women's bathroom this is how not to do it! The reality is not usually like this and few people have problems

I can't agree more.

Kerry

[Carolyn Marie]

This has already been picked up by Breitbart News as one of many so called examples of bad behavior owing to trans friendly laws. It has also been touted by Fox News. Breitbart lumps everything together; recent cases, old cases, cases that have nothing to do with trans laws, cases that have nothing to do with transgender people. It's all fodder.

I do wonder how many times Breittbart, Fox News and others like them have reported on the many right wingers who have been caught, and convicted, of acts against women and children, or how often they have reported on the convictions of priests doing the same? Probably few and none.

Carolyn Marie

[MarcieMarie12]

So this doesn't explain why he didn't ask his trans friend to be the one in the experiment. I mean to see what real difference is between a trans person and a cis-male wearing a dress. No make-up, no change in posture, no voice work 9not just how it sounds but speech patterns)?

[Charlize]

There is a big difference between a badly done halloween costume and a trans* person but unfortunately minds were made up before this charade.

Hugs,

Charlize

[Timber Wolf]

If he had followed me into the restroom, I would have yelled too. He didn't look trans or cis - female. He looked like a perverted guy who follows women into the restroom to watch them. It would have been a comical routine if it had been on one of those late night comidy shows. Not trans,a drag queen is what he was.

Timber Wolf?

[Tejana]

Hhmmm....This video was very difficult to watch. I felt sorry for the women in the restroom who were so upset with the man in this video who was pretending to be transgender. Certainly this scenario (i.e., a male pretending to be transgender entering a ladies' room) epitomizes the public's fears/concerns with re: to transgender-inclusive restroom policies/ordinances. It apparently happened to these ladies as part of a crude, so-called "social experiment" (i.e., assuming the video is not completely staged). Is it not reasonable to assume that other perverse cis-gendered individuals might choose (perhaps for more nefarious reasons) to take advantage of policies/ordinances that give them "legal access" to restrooms/locker-rooms associated with the opposite sex/gender?

Regardless of our political sentiments, how many of us would willfully choose to utilize any restrooms/locker-rooms/fitting-rooms if our presence was strongly anticipated to cause significant/severe emotional distress in others, even if given the legal right to enter said spaces? Perhaps many of us would do so out of sense of justice, legal rights, "activism", or perhaps even for perversely self-serving reasons. Personally, I could not bring myself to do so.

The only point of this so-called "social experiment" with which I can countenance is the statement the young man made at the end of the video that there must be another way to deal with the tg/ts restroom issue. The commonly promulgated prevalence rate of GD/GID in the general population is frequently cited to be 0.03%. Surely, with an incidence rate so low, a number of other possible alternatives exist to that of making all concurrent-occupancy restrooms "unisex" in one form or another.

FYI, I am a post-GRS MtF transsexual. My spouse tells me that I am quite passable when "fixed-up" (& very androgynous when not), and I have on occasion used the Ladies Room without incident. However, my preference is to use single-occupancy/family-restrooms when out and about in public. Personally, regardless of how passable I am (or not), I will not cavalierly risk offending/frightening others with my presence in a women's restroom. Regardless of whether I have a legal right to use a women's restroom, I refuse to callously ignore the possible sensitivities of cis-gendered individuals.

Just my 2-cents worth, and that doesn't buy much of anything these days.

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

I do wonder how many times Breittbart, Fox News and others like them have reported on the many right wingers who have been caught, and convicted, of acts against women and children, or how often they have reported on the convictions of priests doing the same? Probably few and none.

Funny you mention that. I was reading a list of the top 12 bathroom incidents and while the impression based on the stories and links were about men caught in the women's bathroom, one of the stories was intentionally vague. Following the link it was about a story of a man caught videotaping boys in the bathroom, but the person who included that in the 12 bathroom incidents conveniently left out that detail.

Also, with all this bathroom controversy hubub and people linking stories and whatnot, it's important to verify stories with Snopes to see how true they are. Twice Snopes has reported recently about bathroom incidents being listed as mixed or half-true. Yes the person was caught in the women's bathroom, but it wasn't because of the new bathroom law or the person didn't claim to be transgender or ...whatever.

[Carolyn Marie]

One thing I might add to this discussion: when there are laws that allow transgender people to use the appropriate restroom, they should (and probably do) state that the restroom should be used for its intended purpose. When one of these fakers goes in there for the purpose of conducting an "experiment," or for filming, or for deliberately scaring women, or while pretending to be something they are not, or when they state they "feel transgender" for a day, they are violating the law, and can and should be arrested or cited and prosecuted. That would be true of a trans person going in the restroom for a purpose other than doing their personal business.

That fact seems to be lost on these extremists; a law allowing trans people access to the proper restroom, doesn't trump (pardon the pun) any other existing laws protecting people from abusive situations. It just doesn't.

Carolyn Marie

[Paranoid Princess]

I have a feeling that this was staged, and being entertainment it would have lacked substance if the man looked like a woman and there weren't negative reactions. It felt like the video was mocking transgender people like saying "transgender approved" and "transgender - we can say (sic) with our regular voice. If I was using the bathroom at the time of filming I'd have been creeped out to, having a man constantly standing outside the same bathroom then following ladies in and talking to them.

[Guest KerryUK]

I've given some more thought to this video and here are a couple of points:

Firstly, the idiot in it actually did us a favour. It showed that if we as trans people don't put the effort in, we face being singled out in the toilet - or outed if you will. It's a perfectly normal female defence mechanism to be on the alert for possible situations where she may be in danger or vulnerable. She will be on the look out for any signs that would signal to her that she is in danger. So, seeing a man in a place where she is vulnerable is sure to ring alarm bells for her. This idiot was so obviously male, the poor women in the video did the only thing they could - they challenged him and I'm glad they did (I would have done the same).

Secondly, it portrayed to me the absurdity of the laws being passed in NC regarding trans people and public lavatories. It showed that the public will 'self police' situations. Why pass laws for something which already works? It seems such a waste of tax payers' money to fix something which wasn't broken.

Kerry

[Guest noeleena]

Hi,

Friends and who you know is really importaint , i have brought this up before and other forums im a member of and else where, being different how different do you need to be to be singled out , and of cause where you live and who knows you .

Im well known so matters not where i go or who i meet , is it about dress what you wear how you look in my case no as i dress in uniform and most of the time a skirt and blouse no makeup no hair or wig so my facial features are seen like my photo and every one see how i look , one woman thought i was a male in a swimming pool changing room and told the lady in charge and she thought the same till i told her i am a female ...oops...Oh ...

Any way little did i know her two other women Boss,s allready know my background and knew me and told me there was no issue or issues,

I know im useing my detail here yet can apply we some of us intersexed females can be seen as male in our facial features yet are female so it can and does happen not often and i know other females have been tested in the same way so how many of us natal born females dont look all that feminine ,

look around you and take note ,

a lot in fact , i know quite a few and think to myself , wow and im not comparing my self to them yet i have more feminine look about my self than they do , and i thought . think i dont look at all that feminine . so is it any wonder we get looked at a little more in detail ,

I know a few men do try it on like has happened in the ...... feature , though I doubt he understood the implicsions of what he really was doing no real thought just a gag , pity he needs to told ,

...noeleena...

[Guest KerryUK]

That's why I called him an idiot Noeleena, all too often, clowns like him perform stunts like that - not realising the damage they are causing.

You brought up some really good points. I hadn't thought of those ciswomen who could now find themselves being challenged in their own toilets (for looking like a transwoman when in fact they are ciswomen). I would imagine that to be an awful thing to happen. It just doesn't bear thinking about.

Kerry

[MarcieMarie12]

It has already happened. And not just in NC....the religious conservatives are on the warpath.

[Guest]

I can't wait for the day when this clown gets his butt kicked in the Ladies Room by a group of women. New day!!!

[Guest Razilee]

Not such a good experiment. The test results here from non-actors are more helpful. The general public does seem to confuse perverts with trans. I don't consider myself the first. I just go to the bathroom to "make a deposit."

Raz

[VickySGV]

I just saw a video by Zinnia Jones who is one of my favorite "Trans* geeks" showing how this Joey Salads thing is a total fabrication and the result of some very hoaxy staging. The bathroom shown in the video is a single toilet ADA restroom, and could not have been multi stall based on visual clues in the film. It was also not "public" although it may have been "clients and employees" due to some other give away clues if you look for them, which she points out in her video Her video is too long to post here, but it was good.

Zinnia and a friend made their own "counter video" with Zinnia in a T-shirt and jeans using a rest room and getting no reaction at all. It also showed her in a ladies' fitting room actually getting compliments on her fitting choices from other women.

[Guest Alicia Rose]

I've seen it. Didn't like it at all.

So his 'trans friend' 'approved' his social experiment, but she can't speak on behalf of the entire Trans* Community. She may have 'approved' but it would have been best if she took his place in the experiment. Another big issue is how he handled everything. He waited for girls to walk in front of his before rushing in behind them, which is a predatory action. Then when confronted on his actions, he confuses them by saying things like 'I'm allowed to use this voice' (or whatever he said) without them even asking about that.

His style didn't appear genuine. But I can forgive him somewhat for that, because it doesn't matter how well someone 'passes'. That's another conversation.

He should have had his Trans* friend take his place, or stay inside the bathroom to see how others reacted when seeing him using the restroom. Rather than confusing them, simply say things like 'sorry to worry you, I'm a transgender woman' which would have been much better but still not 100% great for that poor video.

He doesn't understand how it is to be transgender, which is why that 'social experiment' was so awkward and cringe-worthy.

[Guest Alicia Rose]

I just saw a video by Zinnia Jones who is one of my favorite "Trans* geeks" showing how this Joey Salads thing is a total fabrication and the result of some very hoaxy staging. The bathroom shown in the video is a single toilet ADA restroom, and could not have been multi stall based on visual clues in the film. It was also not "public" although it may have been "clients and employees" due to some other give away clues if you look for them, which she points out in her video Her video is too long to post here, but it was good.

Zinnia and a friend made their own "counter video" with Zinnia in a T-shirt and jeans using a rest room and getting no reaction at all. It also showed her in a ladies' fitting room actually getting compliments on her fitting choices from other women.

Thank you for sharing! Loved that video.