Don't get me wrong but...

[Mia]

Strangely I don't know where I really stand on this transgender bathrooms thing (in a sense). I mean, I can tell you that I'm for it and not against it, but both sides of the argument get to a point where everything is very convoluted, in my opinion. One side thinks it will lead to people being assaulted in bathrooms (which I think is a silly argument) and the other side is pushing an idea that they should realize most people don't understand (the non-binary concept is what I'm referring to. No offense to anyone who is non-binary, but most people don't seem to know what that is, which is probably another thing that makes this more complicated).

Also, am I crazy or would it not ultimately cost a lot of time and money (maybe it won't I dunno) just to create new facilities for such a small percentage of the population? I also don't think this is equivalent to segregation either. To me it seems like a lack of understanding from the other side, not necessarily transphobia (although I concede that many people are transphobic, of course).
Not that I'm against this, but this seems a lot more complicated to me then "Just do it or you're transphobic."


I don't know where I stand politically; I'm neither left nor right, and I gave up on those "where do you stand politically quiz" thingies when I tried to figure out my political stance, because I found myself disagreeing with or just not caring for the options asked or I didn't understand what it was talking about. I don't really have a mind for politics or an interest in activism. But anyway, I'm interested in this topic because it may affect me in the future, and even if it didn't, I wouldn't be against it really. I'm very critical and skeptical (part of the reason why accepting these trans feelings I've been having is so hard I think, but I digress), so I'm sorry if I sound really salty or snide.

I'm just wondering if someone can give me a rundown of what both sides have to say without linking me to an article. I've done research and looked at plenty of articles, but I want to see what people here think about it (also I'm not crazy about certain news outlets that I've seen info on this from anyway). There's nothing really to convince me of, since I'm not against it. I'm just critical of things that both sides are saying, but I want to know more about it and despite what it may seem like, I'm not going to argue. I'm probably ill-informed even, but that's okay, I just want to take in what you all have to say about it. Again, I don't intend on starting a political argument, although I might come off the wrong way when I talk about these things. I guess I'm just tired of reading articles about it and I wanna see what you all think.

[Guest Clair Dufour]

This is something that varies depending on what state or city your in and the venues you are in. Also, there is a big difference between being harmed and being made fun at. Here in Colorado while anyone can use any bathroom or even locker room, you just have to take the rude comments or Bible verses when they sometimes occur. Even here, one must be aware of how the present and more important the venue they are at. Places that are not LGBT or accepting or tolerant are not the places to frequent or spend ones money. Schools or some other government places are a different issue and even here require trans* political action. We have teen suicides and teen bullying that no one will address other than a few PC words. Propose to them that they should in force do anti- bully day with Boys in Skirts Against Bullying and they all cower in fear of the Assistant Principle! I can't knock trans* political activists but, if that's not your thing, be aware of your surroundings and pick the best choices.

[Guest]

my 2 cents : as a transgender woman the main thing I want is to be accepted for who I am. I don't want special facilities, I just want to go pee in woman's restroom. Why? because it feels great to go to the bathroom to do my things without causing a fuss. I want to be able to change my sanitary pad and have this little garbage can to put my old ones. I want a mirror to be able to adjust my makeup if I wear makeup. I want to be able just to go to the bathroom.

besides, at work nobody objected to the fact that I go in the woman's restroom and that's great because I feel like one of the girls. We talk when we wash our hands and since where I work there's 90% man so we are like a little group that stands shoulder to shoulder.

I'm not a man, I don't feel like I belong there. Why I just be forced to isolate myself and feel left out?

I'm a very friendly, very normal woman. I don't deserve to be left aside because the esthetic tastes of some. I have two children and love them very much. I'm not a sexual predator. I would never do something wrong in there. If I ever do something wrong then other woman just have to stop me because i'm less strong then other woman I know. I represent absolutely no treat to anybody.

so that's it for me. This debate is a witch hunt. There's already man who go in the woman's restroom, we call them janitor. We never did witch hunt for them.

[Guest Sarah Faith]

Mia, it really just boils down to the fact that both sides are really not willing to meet in the middle. The Trans umbrella essentially wants people to be able to use the bathroom of their choice by defining who can use a gendered bathroom almost solely on self identified gender identity. Essentially if you can say you feel like a woman then you should use the womens restroom for example even if you aren't presenting as such. The other route I've seen is from the very social justice wing that are super focused on the gender non-binary (also known as genderqueer) and feel segregated bathrooms need to simply go away. The approach they take on pushing these issues is essentially "Do it this way or you're transphobic."

The other side of the argument is pretty convoluted too but the most basic concept they push is that having absolutely no protections what so ever to control bathroom entry is dangerous to women. The idea is that if someone can just say they identify as a woman and enter the restroom then a predator could take advantage of this. I would say there is many different motivations behind this argument, ranging from people genuinely concerned to men who feel they need to protect the women folk, to people who just want to legislate trans people away so they are using this argument to push their point.

There really isn't much willingness on either side to come to any sort of reasonable compromise, they all approach it as all or nothing.

I personally don't feel like identity alone should be enough to allow access, just saying you feel like a woman or man doesn't really mean you need to use that bathroom beyond making you feel better about your self. I do think there is a reasonable compromise to be had where the requirement is that one is medically and socially transitioning to where using the bathroom of ones birth gender could result in confusion and possibly danger. I don't really buy the argument that it's socially just to just let people use the bathroom of their choice regardless of if they are living that reality or not.

[Mia]

This is something that varies depending on what state or city your in and the venues you are in. Also, there is a big difference between being harmed and being made fun at. Here in Colorado while anyone can use any bathroom or even locker room, you just have to take the rude comments or Bible verses when they sometimes occur. Even here, one must be aware of how the present and more important the venue they are at. Places that are not LGBT or accepting or tolerant are not the places to frequent or spend ones money. Schools or some other government places are a different issue and even here require trans* political action. We have teen suicides and teen bullying that no one will address other than a few PC words. Propose to them that they should in force do anti- bully day with Boys in Skirts Against Bullying and they all cower in fear of the Assistant Principle! I can't knock trans* political activists but, if that's not your thing, be aware of your surroundings and pick the best choices.

I see. Thanks for your input. Yeah that does sound terrible. The bullying and rude comments and all that stuff. :/

[Mia]

Mia, it really just boils down to the fact that both sides are really not willing to meet in the middle. The Trans umbrella essentially wants people to be able to use the bathroom of their choice by defining who can use a gendered bathroom almost solely on self identified gender identity. Essentially if you can say you feel like a woman then you should use the womens restroom for example even if you aren't presenting as such. The other route I've seen is from the very social justice wing that are super focused on the gender non-binary (also known as genderqueer) and feel segregated bathrooms need to simply go away. The approach they take on pushing these issues is essentially "Do it this way or you're transphobic."

The other side of the argument is pretty convoluted too but the most basic concept they push is that having absolutely no protections what so ever to control bathroom entry is dangerous to women. The idea is that if someone can just say they identify as a woman and enter the restroom then a predator could take advantage of this. I would say there is many different motivations behind this argument, ranging from people genuinely concerned to men who feel they need to protect the women folk, to people who just want to legislate trans people away so they are using this argument to push their point.

There really isn't much willingness on either side to come to any sort of reasonable compromise, they all approach it as all or nothing.

I personally don't feel like identity alone should be enough to allow access, just saying you feel like a woman or man doesn't really mean you need to use that bathroom beyond making you feel better about your self. I do think there is a reasonable compromise to be had where the requirement is that one is medically and socially transitioning to where using the bathroom of ones birth gender could result in confusion and possibly danger. I don't really buy the argument that it's socially just to just let people use the bathroom of their choice regardless of if they are living that reality or not.

Ah, I agree. I see what you're saying. I was thinking that. Both sides don't seem to want to compromise at all.

And I agree with all your other points too. I just can't say it better than you did. Haha.

[Mia]

my 2 cents : as a transgender woman the main thing I want is to be accepted for who I am. I don't want special facilities, I just want to go pee in woman's restroom. Why? because it feels great to go to the bathroom to do my things without causing a fuss. I want to be able to change my sanitary pad and have this little garbage can to put my old ones. I want a mirror to be able to adjust my makeup if I wear makeup. I want to be able just to go to the bathroom.

besides, at work nobody objected to the fact that I go in the woman's restroom and that's great because I feel like one of the girls. We talk when we wash our hands and since where I work there's 90% man so we are like a little group that stands shoulder to shoulder.

I'm not a man, I don't feel like I belong there. Why I just be forced to isolate myself and feel left out?

I'm a very friendly, very normal woman. I don't deserve to be left aside because the esthetic tastes of some. I have two children and love them very much. I'm not a sexual predator. I would never do something wrong in there. If I ever do something wrong then other woman just have to stop me because i'm less strong then other woman I know. I represent absolutely no treat to anybody.

so that's it for me. This debate is a witch hunt. There's already man who go in the woman's restroom, we call them janitor. We never did witch hunt for them.

That's understandable. Like I said, this is probably going to affect me at some point. It would definitely be awkward to have to go to the men's restroom. Well I'm still figuring this trans think out personally, and I still need to talk to a therapist, but if it comes to that...

Anyway, I don't think any trans people are going to do anything wrong in restrooms or anything like that. There's not really anything I agree with on the side that's against it. I'm just trying to understand what both sides are trying to say, as I disagree with things on both sides, in a sense.

[Cyndee]

Ok, I'll bite, here is my .02 on the subject

I live in a state that has had laws on the books regarding access to facilities for 10 years now. This was not an issue until a certain segment of the population decided to make it an issue just recently, we would not even be talking about this otherwise. Trans folks have been using the bathroom since there were bathrooms. The argument put forth by some is essentially a sexist issue regarding threats to women, I don't need to repeat any of that.

Here in the state of WA there is a requirement to socially transition your gender. That requirement is of being under the care of a licensed doctor that must declare under perjury that you have met the requirements of gender transition. Then your government issued identity can be updated to your new gender / sex. I personally believe you must meet these requirements to use gender segmented facilities you most identify with and must be able to back it up with government issued identification in your new gender, in addition to presenting in your preferred gender. Self declaration is simply not good enough. I think we are heading in this direction nationwide already, it's already the federal standard to change your SSA gender / sex.

Cynthia -

[Mia]

Ok, I'll bite, here is my .02 on the subject

I live in a state that has had laws on the books regarding access to facilities for 10 years now. This was not an issue until a certain segment of the population decided to make it an issue just recently, we would not even be talking about this otherwise. Trans folks have been using the bathroom since there were bathrooms. The argument put forth by some is essentially a sexist issue regarding threats to women, I don't need to repeat any of that.

Here in the state of WA there is a requirement to socially transition your gender / sex,. That requirement is of being under the care of a licensed doctor that must declare under a threat of perjury that you have met the requirements of gender transition. Then your government issued identity can updated to your new gender / sex. I personally believe you must meet these requirements to use facility you most identify with and must be able to back it up with government issued identification in your new gender, in addition to presenting in your preferred gender. Self declaration is simply not good enough. I think this will become the new model nationwide.

Cynthia -

That makes sense. Yeah, I think I feel the same way about it, really. Official documentation, while it would be more than some people would want to deal with, is probably for the best, if I understand what you're saying. Presenting as your preferred gender helps too, of course. I do think that when it comes to the non-binary crowd though, that it gets a little more complicated. I will just say up front, that I don't exactly adhere to the non-binary label, but I have nothing against people who are non-binary. I just think that that's a point on this side where the gender thing becomes way too complicated for this issue and I don't really know what to think, if I'm being honest. I agree with you. I just kinda rambled. lol

[Cyndee]

Regarding non-binary people. The state of Oregon, has just recently legally recognized an individual as "non-binary", this was reported as a first in the country. Many government agencies have not even caught up with this yet, this person can't get a driver license (yet) that states "non-binary", although one can imagine it's coming. Regarding facilities, there is an increase in deployment of gender neutral and/or family bathrooms nationwide, single use rooms that can be used by anyone, there seems to be a real need for this. Change is coming.....

[Mia]

Regarding non-binary people. The state of Oregon, has just recently legally recognized an individual as "non-binary", this was reported as a first in the country. Many government agencies have not even caught up with this yet, this person can't get a driver license (yet) that states "non-binary", although one can imagine it's coming. Regarding facilities, there is an increase in deployment of gender neutral and/or family bathrooms nationwide, single use rooms that can be used by anyone, there seems to be a real need for this. Change is coming.....

Oh, I didn't know those things. That's interesting. Well that's good to know then.

[tracy_j]

Being someone who is 'non binary' I am increasingly feeling that I am falling in a hole in the middle! I have wondered if people ever have been forced into transition via the social forces which push them one way or the other.

I won't get into the bathroom debate here as, being in the UK, things over the other side of the pond, although having their influence, are not directly relevant.

I would just suggest though, to think about what being 'non binary' would mean if you were and how problematic that would be in many aspects of everday life. Perhaps not too much of an issue in safe areas but likely very dangerous elsewhere.

Tracy

[Mia]

Being someone who is 'non binary' I am increasingly feeling that I am falling in a hole in the middle! I have wondered if people ever have been forced into transition via the social forces which push them one way or the other.

I won't get into the bathroom debate here as, being in the UK, things over the other side of the pond, although having their influence, are not directly relevant.

I would just suggest though, to think about what being 'non binary' would mean if you were and how problematic that would be in many aspects of everday life. Perhaps not too much of an issue in safe areas but likely very dangerous elsewhere.

Tracy

Oh, I understand. I actually considered before that I could have been non-binary, but since I don't want to be male again, that label doesn't seem right for me. I also don't particularly feel like I'm a gender in the middle either, nor do I really know what that feels like. Anyway, I'm sure being non-binary is hard to deal with in its own ways.

[Guest]

This just in https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/08/states-sue-federal-government-transgender-bathroom-policy

!0 states sue Obama over transgender bathroom policy.

A few weeks ago a non-trangender father with a toddler daughter (not transgender) bought her into the men's room so she could do her business. The man was attacked and told girls can't come in the men's room even under the circumstances. Where does he go to the ladies room? Mom's do this with toddler sons all the time and no one yells. Theirs either equality or there isn't for everyone.

laura

[Cyndee]

More .02

In reference to the all the law suits, they seem to be piling up.

I believe this issue will ultimately go to the US supreme court to decide once and for all what title IX really means as far as schools, facilities, and what constitutes discrimination.

That's why this election cycle is so crucial and nomination to the court from the next president. Why do you think the republicans failed to act on the current president's nomination ? They know the direction of the court and it's leanings for this issue and many more, our society at large in a state of great flux.

Red states want your sex on your birth certificate to dictate your access to facilities in the legal framework much like North Carolina today. We all know how many problems that approach has created for trans folks, it essentially legalizes discrimination.

It boils down to Gender identity vs Biological sex and which definition prevails regarding discrimination and access to facilities.

I ask, as humans are we not far more complex than biological sex ?

Stay tuned.....

C -

[Charlize]

As far as i know this has only recently become an issue in so far as legislation is concerned. I know i was using the ladies room regularly and while i was worried about being humiliated and offending others. The former was my problem but despite that i do believe that making others upset isn't right either. I can't speak for those who are gender queer. I have always simply wanted to be accepted for the woman i am. Being in the middle can certainly cause difficulties.

I do believe in freedom to be one's self. Laws that keep me from doing that, especially if i'm not harming anyone don't seem right.

If you haven't guessed yet i'll be voting for Democrats unless there is a very unusual republican.

Hugs

Charlize

[Mia]

This just in https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/08/states-sue-federal-government-transgender-bathroom-policy

!0 states sue Obama over transgender bathroom policy.

A few weeks ago a non-trangender father with a toddler daughter (not transgender) bought her into the men's room so she could do her business. The man was attacked and told girls can't come in the men's room even under the circumstances. Where does he go to the ladies room? Mom's do this with toddler sons all the time and no one yells. Theirs either equality or there isn't for everyone.

laura

Oh, I saw this pop up when I tried looking into it more earlier. I just read that article (the first thing). You may be surprised, but I still don't really know what to think. Like I said, I'm not against there being transgender bathrooms at all, but while I don't think it's “a radical social policy that raises serious safety concerns for school-age children”, “part of a liberal social agenda” or “a detriment to the very children it intends to help”,

I don't assume that everyone who's against it thinks that, nor do I think everyone who's against it is transphobic (though certainly some of them are). I feel like this issue is much more than black and white in other words. Also my text got messed up when I pasted part of that article. :/

Concerning that second thing you mentioned, this transgender bathrooms thing wouldn't have come to mind (in relation to that event) if I hadn't seen The Daily Beast bring it up or if it hadn't been brought up here. I don't read The Daily Beast or other feminist news outlets, but I looked into it and found that article. There were other articles, but The Daily Beast was the only one to mention anything about transgender bathrooms, whereas, my initial thought was that such an event was an isolated incident and someone wanted to start trouble. I'm not a mind-reader so I wouldn't know what was going through the assailant's head when he assaulted the man, i.e. did he think it was bad parenting for some reason? Did he actually think about transgender bathrooms and equate it with that? I don't know, because all I have to go by is "What the (hell) is she doing in here?” “It is inappropriate that she’s in here.”

What did he mean by "inappropriate"? That's a little vague to me. That being said, the fact that he was assaulted was terrible and that sounds like a terrible situation to have been a part of. I know I said I wouldn't argue, but I didn't want to be rude and not respond to what you said, and I wanted to mention my thoughts on what you said. Anyway, I don't disagree with your message at all. I'm on the same side. I agree that there's a double standard, but my way of looking at it is different.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Carolyn Marie
starred forbidden word deleted and replaced.

[Mia]

More .02

In reference to the all the law suits, they seem to be piling up.

I believe this issue will ultimately go to the US supreme court to decide once and for all what title IX really means as far as schools, facilities, and what constitutes discrimination.

That's why this election cycle is so crucial and nomination to the court from the next president. Why do you think the republicans failed to act on the current president's nomination ? They know the direction of the court and it's leanings for this issue and many more, our society at large in a state of great flux.

Red states want your sex on your birth certificate to dictate your access to facilities in the legal framework much like North Carolina today. We all know how many problems that approach has created for trans folks, it essentially legalizes discrimination.

It boils down to Gender identity vs Biological sex and which definition prevails regarding discrimination and access to facilities.

I ask, as humans are we not far more complex than biological sex ?

Stay tuned.....

C -

Unfortunately for me, I still believe that gender is biological, which makes what I'm going through all the more difficult. My body and emotions are pushing me in the direction of me being female as is a portion of my mind irrespective of my personal beliefs. This also makes it hard for me to approach an issue like this in the same exact way as many others in this community, I think. That being said, in spite of what I believe, as far as society (to an extent) is concerned, if I identify and present myself as female, then I'm female. I concede that people do this with a variety of gender identities, regardless of what I consciously think. Anyway, concerning this issue, as Sarah mentioned before, I feel like people should find a compromise. I find myself somewhere in the middle on this, but leaning in the direction of being for transgender bathrooms, if I were to more specifically describe how I feel about it. I'm sure once it's something I have to deal with, that I'll care more (that probably sounds selfish and mean, I'm sorry, but it's me being honest about how I feel).

[Mia]

As far as i know this has only recently become an issue in so far as legislation is concerned. I know i was using the ladies room regularly and while i was worried about being humiliated and offending others. The former was my problem but despite that i do believe that making others upset isn't right either. I can't speak for those who are gender queer. I have always simply wanted to be accepted for the woman i am. Being in the middle can certainly cause difficulties.

I do believe in freedom to be one's self. Laws that keep me from doing that, especially if i'm not harming anyone don't seem right.

If you haven't guessed yet i'll be voting for Democrats unless there is a very unusual republican.

Hugs

Charlize

Hmm... it makes me wonder why this became a political issue to begin with, if people were freely doing it before and there were no legal problems. :/

It's a shame that it's become a big issue. But yes, regardless of whether it's a legal issue or not, being made fun of by others for who you are is not okay.

I agree. People should be able to be who they are without the law getting in the way of that, assuming that people aren't doing anything against anyone else's consent (which in this case, no one's doing anything wrong, of course).

If I did vote, I'm not sure who I'd vote for, as I don't normally follow politics. I'm not particularly crazy about the candidates who I've seen though from the little that I do know, although I do think that as much of a jerk Trump can be, the way many people represent him is exaggerated to make him look like Satan. But I digress, I'm glad I have a little more insight on this issue and I understand a bit more than I did before.

[Cyndee]

More .02

In reference to the all the law suits, they seem to be piling up.

I believe this issue will ultimately go to the US supreme court to decide once and for all what title IX really means as far as schools, facilities, and what constitutes discrimination.

That's why this election cycle is so crucial and nomination to the court from the next president. Why do you think the republicans failed to act on the current president's nomination ? They know the direction of the court and it's leanings for this issue and many more, our society at large in a state of great flux.

Red states want your sex on your birth certificate to dictate your access to facilities in the legal framework much like North Carolina today. We all know how many problems that approach has created for trans folks, it essentially legalizes discrimination.

It boils down to Gender identity vs Biological sex and which definition prevails regarding discrimination and access to facilities.

I ask, as humans are we not far more complex than biological sex ?

Stay tuned.....

C -

Unfortunately for me, I still believe that gender is biological, which makes what I'm going through all the more difficult. My body and emotions are pushing me in the direction of me being female as is a portion of my mind irrespective of my personal beliefs.

Your brain is of course biological, your gender identity has a biological basis of course, unfortunately republicans and the red states really only care about what's between your legs at birth (simplification). If you read their political platform, you can see that fact in more detail.

Ask your self then, who is behind all these "bathroom bills" anyway ? Why are we dealing with all this now ? when you dig a little deeper, the answer is not hard to find....

Best wishes I hope you find peace and happiness, none of this easy....

Hugs

C -

[Mia]

More .02

In reference to the all the law suits, they seem to be piling up.

I believe this issue will ultimately go to the US supreme court to decide once and for all what title IX really means as far as schools, facilities, and what constitutes discrimination.

That's why this election cycle is so crucial and nomination to the court from the next president. Why do you think the republicans failed to act on the current president's nomination ? They know the direction of the court and it's leanings for this issue and many more, our society at large in a state of great flux.

Red states want your sex on your birth certificate to dictate your access to facilities in the legal framework much like North Carolina today. We all know how many problems that approach has created for trans folks, it essentially legalizes discrimination.

It boils down to Gender identity vs Biological sex and which definition prevails regarding discrimination and access to facilities.

I ask, as humans are we not far more complex than biological sex ?

Stay tuned.....

C -

Unfortunately for me, I still believe that gender is biological, which makes what I'm going through all the more difficult. My body and emotions are pushing me in the direction of me being female as is a portion of my mind irrespective of my personal beliefs.

Your brain is of course biological, gender identity has a biological basis, of course, unfortunately republicans and the red states really only care about what's between your legs at birth (simplification). If you read their political platform, you can see that fact in more detail.

Ask your self then, who is behind all these "bathroom bills" anyway ? Why are we dealing with all this now ? when you dig a little deeper, the answer is not hard to find....

Best wishes I hope you find peace and happiness, none of this easy....

Hugs

C -

I understand.

And yeah, that is unfortunate. :/

Edited July 11, 2016 by CyndiRae
added a few words - c

[Mia]

More .02

In reference to the all the law suits, they seem to be piling up.

I believe this issue will ultimately go to the US supreme court to decide once and for all what title IX really means as far as schools, facilities, and what constitutes discrimination.

That's why this election cycle is so crucial and nomination to the court from the next president. Why do you think the republicans failed to act on the current president's nomination ? They know the direction of the court and it's leanings for this issue and many more, our society at large in a state of great flux.

Red states want your sex on your birth certificate to dictate your access to facilities in the legal framework much like North Carolina today. We all know how many problems that approach has created for trans folks, it essentially legalizes discrimination.

It boils down to Gender identity vs Biological sex and which definition prevails regarding discrimination and access to facilities.

I ask, as humans are we not far more complex than biological sex ?

Stay tuned.....

C -

Unfortunately for me, I still believe that gender is biological, which makes what I'm going through all the more difficult. My body and emotions are pushing me in the direction of me being female as is a portion of my mind irrespective of my personal beliefs.

Your brain is of course biological, your gender identity has a biological basis of course, unfortunately republicans and the red states really only care about what's between your legs at birth (simplification). If you read their political platform, you can see that fact in more detail.

Ask your self then, who is behind all these "bathroom bills" anyway ? Why are we dealing with all this now ? when you dig a little deeper, the answer is not hard to find....

Best wishes I hope you find peace and happiness, none of this easy....

Hugs

C -

Oops. I think you edited your post (unless I somehow missed that other stuff), so I'll respond to what else you said now.

I see what you're saying, I think. I wish the other side wasn't making the big deal out of this that they are.

And thank you~ I'm still trying to figure all of this out (the gender thing). *hugs*

[Cyndee]

Yes I was in middle of editing a few things and adding more text just as quoted me

C -

[Mia]

Yes I was in middle of editing a few things and adding more text just as quoted me

C -

Haha. That's okay.

[Mayo]

Mia, it really just boils down to the fact that both sides are really not willing to meet in the middle. The Trans umbrella essentially wants people to be able to use the bathroom of their choice by defining who can use a gendered bathroom almost solely on self identified gender identity. Essentially if you can say you feel like a woman then you should use the womens restroom for example even if you aren't presenting as such. The other route I've seen is from the very social justice wing that are super focused on the gender non-binary (also known as genderqueer) and feel segregated bathrooms need to simply go away. The approach they take on pushing these issues is essentially "Do it this way or you're transphobic."

The other side of the argument is pretty convoluted too but the most basic concept they push is that having absolutely no protections what so ever to control bathroom entry is dangerous to women. The idea is that if someone can just say they identify as a woman and enter the restroom then a predator could take advantage of this. I would say there is many different motivations behind this argument, ranging from people genuinely concerned to men who feel they need to protect the women folk, to people who just want to legislate trans people away so they are using this argument to push their point.

The 'say you feel like a woman' charge is one of the conservative scare points - the important thing is that one should identify as female, which is a lot more than just 'saying' you feel like a woman at that particular day or hour. If one seriously identifies as female, one presumably expresses that in dress and behaviour 24/7 or close to it (crossdressers are an edge case where they identify as male but are presenting as female). Incidents of cis men 'saying' they're trans in order to enter a sex-segregated facility are incredibly rare; even adding crossdressers one can count the number of incidents in the US in the last 10 years on one hand. There have been a few cases of cis men putting on dresses to sneak into female college dorms but those were disguises and in no way related to identifying as female. One of the standard rebuttals to these sorts of laws is that sexual assault or recording of people in bathroom stalls (for example) are already criminal behaviours and there's no need to target a specific class of people (trans folks) in order to prevent these sorts of things - it's reminiscent of the scare tactics of the fifties where black people were denied entrance to whites-only facilities. (In an attempt to quell some of these concerns, MA recently passed a bill that specifically mentions "assert[ing] gender identity for an improper purpose".)

I believe that gender-segregated facilities should be done away with because North America is culturally too hung up on sex. Teen pregancies, STIs, ignorance about sex and sexuality in general (including homophobia and transphobia) as well as misogyny and rape culture are all expressions of a Puritan/Victorian attitude that is just flat-out dangerous to women and sexual/gender minorities. That a teen can watch a movie in which tens of people get brutally shot but isn't allowed to see boobs is ridiculous and unhealthy IMO - in the choice of glorifying sex vs death, the US clearly values death more highly. If you want to reduce sexual violence against women and children, shedding this demented world-view is a good first step, and you do that by making sex into something natural and acceptable that should be appreciated and respected rather than simultaneously worshipped and despised.

The motives behind such laws, while ostensibly about protecting wimmins 'n chilluns, are obviously due to something else or the statistics on assaults by trans people in washrooms (zero or as close to it as makes no difference) would lead these people to stop wasting public time and money on flawed and useless legislation. The politicians are of course motivated to get votes and the support of powerful lobby groups. These lobby groups tend to be fundamentalist Christian organizations intent on turning the US into a theocracy (which is what they mean - regardless of whether they admit it or not - when they say 'the US is a Christian nation'). The rank and file who agitate for these laws and sign petitions are manipulated into doing so through either ignorance or fear (transphobia can be either or both), both of which are great tools for stirring up the masses. Many of them just can't conceive of anything outside the supposedly immutable gender binary and are squicked out by the idea of penises on women (except that a lot of states that are trying to pass these bills are also among the highest in searches for trans porn...). In some cases it probably comes right down to the belief that anybody who does not think exactly as you do is a heathen at best or an abomination at worst and they hope to legislate sexual and gender minorities out of existence.