Deep Stealth - Reurfacing for a Moment

[Summer4Life]

Hi Everyone,

It's wonderful to meet all of you.

I am definitely not new to this forum but I haven't been here since 2008. Back then I was already transitioning but only on the verge of going deep stealth. Since then I have been living deep stealth and very happy with it. However there are some things I wanted to talk about with respect to the trans community that are terrible and not becoming of us. I am talking about activism.

I know many of you feel that we should have more of a voice in the world, and that with the changes with respect to gay marriage is like a door opening for us, but I don't believe visibility should be the goal of the transgender community. I honestly empathize with those who have suffered for their being different. I have shared some of that suffering especially early on but part of me can't help but wonder if trying to change the world and laws to suit us, to accept us is helping. Sure, some progress was needed but how far do we want to go?  If anything the increased visibility especially in regards to Kaitlin Jenner has promoted more hatred towards transgendered community. Having a trans woman who happens to be part of an already divisive family receive public praise and awards has fostered vitriol in people who otherwise would never have paid attention to us anyways. 

I also feel activism such as changing laws, and even attempting to change hearts and minds is kind of forceful and undermining of other peoples values. Even if other people have beliefs that are against us, it's not our place to push our beliefs on them unless they are acting directly against us. I understand the feelings of outrage over public spaces such as restrooms and locker rooms, but in all honesty some of us could deal with a firm dose of reality and common sense in how we conduct ourselves.  Now people who didn't know much about us, are starting to become aware of trans identity, and this will only create more division. At one time we were just seen as some fringe weirdo group, a spec on the existential radar, but now it seems, were being lumped in with raging SJWs. I can't see how this is going to make mainstream people accept us as the women or men that we want to be acknowledged as. 

In 2008, it seemed the discussions on forums in our community was how to live in stealth. We wanted to be seen as proper men or women. Today I don't see the word stealth come up quite as often in search results. It was like we as a community were once more conservative, or at least evenly split in how we should conduct ourselves. Now it seems being trans is primarily becoming this leftist attention seeking mainstream political movement. I don't think that was ever truly our intention but that's the way we are headed now. I know I am going to upset a lot of people here when I say this, but I feel it should be said. I think our community has been partially hijacked by feminists and narcissists. I think we as a trans community are being used to further other peoples political ideologies, but I don't think non-trans people want to have our identities forced on them. I don't think it's fair to them nor to us to do so.

* * *

Also another reason I am here.

I have been living in stealth since 2008 and post op since 2009. Even though I live among non-trans people (I hate the word cis, sorry) and I am happy with that, sometimes I just miss being able to talk to other trans women and men especially ones like me who have been under the radar for a long time. I think we have different issues from the rest of the transgender community not so much because of trans-phobia, but just by the fact that were on a different life path.

I think if you're here reading this, and you are like me, you probably feel somewhat isolated. It's not that being stealth is bad, but it's because you have certain experiences that you can't readily share with just anyone. There are a lot of transgender resources for people especially early on. On the other hand, there are fewer resources for those of us who have been living in the mainstream for a long time. We know what / who we are but sometimes we just need fellow travelers along the way. 

While I am here, I would like to get to know many of you. I am open to helping those early in transition, but I am interested in getting to know others who are in a similar boat.

 

 

[Mia]

I 100% agree with what you're saying. My views fall in line with yours and so I commonly feel more confused and out of place in this community than I already would. It also doesn't help that I've only been having these feelings for around 2 months now so much of the advice that people in this community give to me and others really confuses me, as it falls in line with ideas that don't make sense to me (i.e. statements like "there are millions of genders", if you want a stereotypical example). Anyway, I agree that activism has gone/is going definitely overboard and I'm also not for shoving this down peoples' throats. If a person hates trans people, then forcing them to adhere to beliefs they don't have isn't going to change that necessarily. I don't believe in the thought police. Ending discrimination (of any kind) isn't possible. That's a ridiculous utopian idea (as are many things that activists in this community are trying to stop).

That being said, as much as these views aren't common in this community, I do love it here at Laura's because at least everyone here is free to speak their mind without getting banned for "hate speech".

[Summer4Life]

Thank you Mia. So nice to meet you!

Laura's Playground is a wonderful blessing for sure. That's why I stopped in.

You're right. This concept of 1000s of genders is going to upset a lot of people and will only reinforce negative cultural stereotypes of us being clowns. I don't personally believe these concepts came from the transgender community or were ever widely accepted by us. I think it comes from people who have other motivations or are just conflicted about who they are and want everyone else to feel that way. When I first began my transition, a lot of people used to say to me, "Labels don't matter." But of course that was completely garbage thing to say because labels DO matter. There are also people who want to push for alternate pronouns and that's also going to create more resistance from mainstream.

[tracy_j]

Personally I can see things from both (or many) angles in this. There is a place for activism in that people push forward to assert their rights for trans people as with any other section of the community that is being poorly treated. There are some people who thrive or feel it is their duty with such activities. For them it is and, as long as things are not taken to an illegal level, I do generally agree with it.

I prefer to live peacefully and just quietly help where I feel I can. There is, I think, great value in being known as trans, which I am with many people, and appearing to be just another person in the community. Not someone to be alarmed about. Just someone living life normally. I think, appearing as such, people will be far less worried about the subject, or someone they know closely, being of a similar nature.

As the saying goes, I could at a point take on the world if I felt strongly enough but there are many other things in life than being trans however important it may seem, so I am not often moved to that point.

It's getting the balance and that varies with everyone

Tracy

[Summer4Life]

Hi Tracy. It's very nice to meet you.

I'm definitely with you on that. It's better to live peacefully and quietly. And you're right. Nobody deserves to be treated poorly.

When I first started transitioning in 2006, I was in my early twenties, there wasn't as much resources as there are now. If there were, they were not as widely available. Pretty much nobody in the mainstream knew or even cared about transgender issues. If I wanted to do anything, I had to figure out how to work around the system, everything from my job, restrooms, to hormones, hair removal and all that other stuff. I would say that I was pretty lucky. I had problems here and there, and got my share of weird stares, but I think I got through most of it by staying low key. I probably had the hardest time with legal documents, but eventually I was able to find a way to get those taken care of. I think what got me through a lot of the challenges was having the guidance of friends in our community to point me in the right directions and that was great. Probably the changes that were recently made to obtaining legal documents would have come in handy, but everything has mostly come together.

It's just that now it seems transgender activism is becoming a big thing. Activists are putting pressure on government, and businesses to change restroom policies, creating new forms gender expressions, safe spaces, public assistance in paying for therapy, surgeries, and hormones. I know I am walking a thin line with this, but I am bringing it up because I think were upsetting the balance by creating resentment and enemies. It's bad enough we're perceived the way we are, but pushing the world to help us along, is it helping us? Sometimes I hear in passing conversations people spewing a lot of anger and hatred because of these things. I am not saying this is how everyone feels, but I don't think we are regarded in a positive light. I know I don't really have as much of a stake in the game now days, but I wish we could do better than we are.

[Mia]

1 hour ago, Summer4Life said:

Thank you Mia. So nice to meet you!

Laura's Playground is a wonderful blessing for sure. That's why I stopped in.

You're right. This concept of 1000s of genders is going to upset a lot of people and will only reinforce negative cultural stereotypes of us being clowns. I don't personally believe these concepts came from the transgender community or were ever widely accepted by us. I think it comes from people who have other motivations or are just conflicted about who they are and want everyone else to feel that way. When I first began my transition, a lot of people used to say to me, "Labels don't matter." But of course that was completely garbage thing to say because labels DO matter. There are also people who want to push for alternate pronouns and that's also going to create more resistance from mainstream.

Nice to meet you too!

And again, I agree with what you're saying. There does indeed appear to be an agenda from certain activists (concerning certain things in this community) or at the very least a push to make being trans more popular (not just the idea of being trans). I'm not saying that everyone is a "transtrender". I'm not a mind reader and I'm not going to pretend to know what every person in this community is going through and what their reasons are for what they're doing, but what I'm saying is that there are people whom I've seen (again, not everyone) that seem to be doing this for solely political reasons, like to make some sort of political statement, or they think that it's fun for some reason (see Milo Stewart. I know, I picked the worst example possible. Sorry. XD). Ironically, when I'm presented with people like that in this community, I'm not inspired by their "anyone can be trans" kind of mentality. I only question myself more, because I don't know why I even feel this way. I've only had feelings related to this since early high school, and I've only REALLY felt this this way (all of my feelings kind of clashed together basically) since around 2 months ago. I want to clarify that people can do whatever makes them happy, and I don't care if someone "is really trans" or not, despite my criticisms of certain ideas. I just felt like ranting about the fact that activism does more harm than good for what I'm going through. With the intention of being more "inclusive", the trans community just serves to make me more confused about what I'm going through. Regardless, whatever I am or am not, I'm just going to explore this and do what makes me happy. I think that's one thing we can all agree on.

And I agree, labels do matter. There's nothing wrong with them and they serve a valid purpose of defining different things. I mean... we need words to communicate what we are talking about, obviously.
I don't really see why people don't like them. Also, I don't understand why, from people who tend to say that "labels don't matter", the same people just love to make a million words for every single thing in existence.

And yes, about the pronouns thing. I'm not sure I want to get used to words like "xe" and "zed" or whatever they were. Also, I can't see 99% of the population kowtowing to a community that's just 0.3% of the population. In other words, people in this community are pushing for things that a majority of people won't even need to bother with in their lifetime (statistically speaking. Also, I can't remember what study those numbers are from, but I have seen it. XD). Let me clarify that I'm not referring to all trans issues when I say this.

Okay, I rambled enough. I don't where I was going with this. Anyway, if there's one last thing I want to say it's that, yes I'm salty about this community, but again, to anyone in this community, do whatever makes you happy. Just don't expect the majority of the population to accept every idea you put on the table.

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, Mia said:

And I agree, labels do matter. There's nothing wrong with them and they serve a valid purpose of defining different things. I mean... we need words to communicate what we are talking about, obviously.
I don't really see why people don't like them. Also, I don't understand why, from people who tend to say that "labels don't matter", the same people just love to make a million words for every single thing in existence.

I can respond to that. I made a thread recently that was basically just me venting. The implied subject in that thread is that "labels no longer matter for me". I understand your point and you're right. But in my life i've been labeled everything, I mean, everything (the following labels are the one people used to describe the fact that I am a woman in a man's body) : bisexual, heterosexual, homosexual, asexual, transgender, transexual, travestite, a girl, a man, womanizer (because I wanted to have female friends), hermit, sick, ill, crazy, handicaped, victim of a disorder, someone with particular tastes, devil, satan, depraved, child molester, weak, strong, courageous, coward, (Oh, I forgot trisomic and intersex and hermaphrodite) etc

each of those labels have been used seriously (and most of them wrongly, lol) to decribe basically just one reality, the simple fact that I was different. Labels are all cool and all that but if everyone use a different one they lose utility. I can't be everything at once, you know what I mean? If labels no longer describe something precise but are insteand used because people feel like using them that's when they don't matter.

if someone use "transgender" to describe what we are and to describe a dog, what do that label really mean?

That's a very personnal thing I just said but at least I hope that you can understand where someone come from when someone say labels doesn't matter.

 

I agree that labels can be important when used correctly but in my personnal experience they meant nothing and continue to mean nothing.

[Mia]

17 minutes ago, soliloque said:

I can respond to that. I made a thread recently that was basically just me venting. The implied subject in that thread is that "labels no longer matter for me". I understand your point and you're right. But in my life i've been labeled everything, I mean, everything (the following labels are the one people used to describe the fact that I am a woman in a man's body) : bisexual, heterosexual, homosexual, asexual, transgender, transexual, travestite, a girl, a man, womanizer (because I wanted to have female friends), hermit, sick, ill, crazy, handicaped, victim of a disorder, someone with particular tastes, devil, satan, depraved, child molester, weak, strong, courageous, coward, etc

each of those labels have been used seriously (and most of them wrongly, lol) to decribe basically just one reality, the simple fact that I was different. Labels are all cool and all that but if everyone use a different one they lose utility. I can't be everything at once, you know what I mean? If labels no longer describe something precise but are insteand used because people feel like using them that's when they don't matter.

if someone use "transgender" to describe what we are and to describe a dog, what do that label really mean?

That's a very personnal thing I just said but at least I hope that you can understand where someone come from when someone say labels doesn't matter.

 

I agree that labels can be important when used correctly but in my personnal experience they meant nothing and continue to mean nothing.

Ah, I see what you're saying. I believe that's a matter of people using words incorrectly out of lack of understanding about something or out of hatred (based on your examples), but I understand what you're saying.

[Charlize]

I'm glad you have returned and are sharing your perspective.  The first trans person i knew went completely stealth after transition.  He lived as himself for years and it was difficult for some of those that loved him.  he had been my children's god mother until that became godfather.  He kept in touch but at a distance.  When i saw him to talk about my issues he was upset about that.  He had known how much difficulty he and those he loved had faced and didn't want me and my family to suffer that as well.  

I have traveled a different path.  I am still with my wife of 45 years and my son and his family lives on the farm i continue to work in the town where i was raised.  It was hard at first.  But i've been so pleased that honesty and continuing my life has been possible.  There are those who feel i'm a freak somehow but that is their problem.  I'm not highly political but a life where i can peace is all i ask for.   Perhaps by simply being myself can help others in that pursuit.  ( i will vote for the democrats this fall)

If i had been young and independent i might have disappeared into the world as a woman but that was not my path.  I think it's wonderful that it may be easier today for all of us to find their's.  

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

[Timber Wolf]

Hi Summer,

 

I agree and disagree, sort of. I don't believe legislation and litigation will cause people to accept us. Yes, those will and do generate a push back by those who hate us. Neither do I believe just keeping quiet and doing and saying nothing will help us either. I believe the solution to acceptance and ending the hatred is education. Not medical explanations necessarily, but showing them that we are people. Human beings just trying to make it through another day in our lives and be happy, just like everyone else. As world war II was coming to an end, my dad joined the airforce. He told me once that he imagined the Japanese as being spidery creatures, because if he saw them as human, he couldn't feel right about fighting them to death. He could hate them as spidery creatures, but had trouble trying to hate them as human beings. It's easy to hate a faceless minority. But when a face is put on that minority, people one can relate to, hatred becomes more difficult. An article was just posted on the forum today about the trans wonan who spoke at the Democratic convention, her last name is McBride. It was the touching and heartbreaking story of how she met and fell in love with the trans man who would become her husband, despite his having terminal cancer which took him about a week after thier wedding, and how thier love transended cancer and death. I wish all people would read or hear this story, as well as other stories of life involving trans people. It would help them begin to see us as regular people they can relate to, rather than just a faceless, freaky minority. When I hear the hate aimed at our community, nobody singles me out. They don't know me or about me. But I feel thier hatred, because I'm part of this community, and it hurts. I'm a very caring person. Or at least I try to be. The people here at Laura's have helped to save my life, and I care very deeply about them, and our entire community. I know there are many others out there feeling all alone and hurting the way I was. When I hear the hatred, it hurts not only for me, bur because it can cause already lonely and hurting trans souls to feel rejected and even more alone in the world. That feeling really hurts. That's why Laura's is so important to me. We're not alone here anymore. Anyway, I'm really starting to run on here. I guess I just had to get this out. I'm glad to meet you Summer, and hope to hear from you again!

 

Lots of love,

Timber Wolf?

[MarcieMarie12]

I would think going stealth would be easier if we didn't have all this electronic media, things like facebook make it hard to be completely stealth. All it takes is one person to out you, even if you try to keep your old life and new life separate that is almost impossible now.

As to the activism, I agree that the wierd Zie type pronouns might be a step too far to require. They and them is probably the best solution. But I'm not non-binary.

[bobbisue]

I have to disagree that activism is not right if it were not for activism i would not drink from the same water fountain or ride on the same part of the bus as many of my sisters here women would still be unworthy of voting gay men would be jailed for not hiding well enough so yes activism is nessisary to change society it can be painful for all but change must happen or we will be back to the stone age sooner than we think 

 

   bobbisue

[Guest LesleyAnne]

Activism.....http://www.historynet.com/womens-suffrage-movement

"

Sixty-five years after Elizabeth Cady Stanton organized the landmark women’s rights convention in Seneca Falls, N.Y., the first national demonstration for women’s suffrage took place in Washington, D.C. On March 3, 1913, the day before Woodrow Wilson’s presidential inauguration, 8,000 women gathered to march down Pennsylvania Avenue in support of women’s right to vote. Attorney Inez Milholland Boissevain heralded the grand procession clad in armor astride a white horse, a beautiful and intelligent epitome of the new generation of suffragists. Banners of purple, gold and white fluttered in the breeze on the crisp Washington morning. As the women and several male supporters set forth with 26 floats, a crowd of roughly half a million people watched with mixed emotions.

The murmurs of the crowd grew loud and angry as malicious bystanders crumpled parade programs and flung them at the women. The police that Congress promised would protect the parade stood aside as men poured onto the street, shouting insults and condescending remarks, and began to physically attack the marchers. Police ignored cries for help as the mob ripped banners from the hands of young girls. Many officers joined the fray; one was heard shouting, “If my wife were where you are I’d break her head!” A policeman roughly pulled a woman off her feet and tore her jacket because she slapped a man who spit on her. Reporters from newspapers around the country snapped photographs of men dragging elderly women through the streets. By evening, all that remained of the parade were scattered papers and scraps of purple and gold cloth.

The resulting press coverage and congressional investigation led to the first congressional debate over a federal amendment enfranchising women in 26 years. The parade successfully reintroduced the suffrage movement as a legitimate and formidable political force. Seven years later, the 19th Amendment passed by a margin of one vote."

[Timber Wolf]

Hi Everyone,

 

In the years leading up to 1863, activists for the abolitionist movement were pushing for the abolition of slavery. A terrible civil war occured which ultimately lead to slavery's abolition. A lot of people, both north and south hated the emancipation proclamation. Riots broke out over it. Some people put sheets over thier heads and spread terror. This made black people uncomfortable. The push back by the racists caused a number of black people to live in fear. Looking back on this, could we say that it would have been better had we not freed the slaves? Of course not! Slavery was wicked and had to be stopped. Any sane person knows this. Ultimately, it was activism that got the ball rolling for emancipation and civil rights. Sometimes, a little activism can be needed, especially when it serves to educate.

 

Lots of love,

Timber Wolf?

[Mia]

I thought it was clarified that we were referring to modern activism. :/ Also, the ends don't justify the means.

[gennee]

An interesting topic. Each person has to do what's best for them. For me, being stealth is not an option. Too much is at stake. Activism is fine and needed. It has to be done with goals in mind and without malice. It's one thing to have strong opinions and beliefs; it's a disservice to others if one is going to trash and demean others because they don't agree with them or think like them. I do agree that trans people have been used to advance other causes then tossed to the side of the road.

I live life like any other person.  I'm with my family, hang out with friends, shop, etc. transgender is a wide spectrum. It's more important to me personally that I respect a person's wishes as to pronouns, whether or not they choose to remain stealth, whether or not they choose to have surgery, etc.   Some people aren't going to like me and I accept that but I'm not going to sit idly by and be denied services, access to healthcare, and threatened with violence because someone doesn't like who I am.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, gennee said:

An interesting topic. Each person has to do what's best for them. For me, being stealth is not an option. Too much is at stake. Activism is fine and needed. It has to be done with goals in mind and without malice. It's one thing to have strong opinions and beliefs; it's a disservice to others if one is going to trash and demean others because they don't agree with them or think like them. I do agree that trans people have been used to advance other causes then tossed to the side of the road.

I live life like any other person.  I'm with my family, hang out with friends, shop, etc. transgender is a wide spectrum. It's more important to me personally that I respect a person's wishes as to pronouns, whether or not they choose to remain stealth, whether or not they choose to have surgery, etc.   Some people aren't going to like me and I accept that but I'm not going to sit idly by and be denied services, access to healthcare, and threatened with violence because someone doesn't like who I am.

[Timber Wolf]

I was using a past event as an example of how activism can sometimes lead to progress. I was not trying to argue the merritts of the abolitionist movement. Not all activism is helpful or good. The kind of activism I particularly support is education. While legislation and litigation can perhaps protect our rights legally, they also can feel like an imposition to those who don't accept us. But education shines the light of knowledge on the darkness of ignorance. As society learns that we're not just a bunch of perverted freaks and that we're not a threat to them, acceptance of us will grow. This is how we will have lasting protection of our rights without shoving it down there throats.

 

Lots of love,

Timber Wolf?

[Alejandra]

I am new here. In fact, this is my first post. So just a bit about myself so that you might understand from whence I speak.   I have never been a member of the trans community.  It did not exist when I had my SRS and in many ways I am glad that it did not because based on what I now know, it would have just further confused an already very confusing situation. The few times that I have attempted to share my thoughts, I have been demonized as a hater and a bigot and essentially burned at the stake. The one thing that I do have in common with Summer is that I too had my srs in my very early 20's.

I think that, as some have already alluded to, the root of problem lies in the complete and total misunderstanding and misuse of words and language.  When I first ventured out of what you all refer to 'deep stealth', the first thing I wanted to understand was the meaning of the word transgender. I never did get a straight answer or how it differed from a transvestite or a transsexual. I think that the standard definition of a 'spectrum' or a rainbow has more to do with political double speak than an attempt to clarify what to me appears to be clearly different and distinct.

Anyway, despite being a happy and productive member of the mainstream, (I am married with children and grand children), I too share that feeling of being unable to reach out and speak freely with those who might actually benefit from what I have learned. And yes, I agree, the current radical activism is, IMHO, going to result in a backlash, resulting in more harm than good for those who might not meet society's norms for acceptable behavior.

 

[Charlize]

Welcome to The Playground Alejandra.  Hopefully you will spend some time here as we need as many perspectives as possible.  Debate is healthy and helps us all grow.  I want to point out one simple definition.  Transvestites are defined in my dictionary as people addicted to wearing women's clothing.  That may be the reality for some.  I accused myself of that many years ago when there was no information i knew of about anything having to with variations from the binary system.  It was a definition that stung as i have battled another addiction having only found a path to transition after years of sobriety.

I'm sure we will see a backlash.  That has already started but it is part of a progression towards what will hopefully be a world where other gender questioning youth will find acceptance and information about their feelings rather than feeling they must hide and then suffer from years of guilt and shame.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

 

[Alejandra]

I do not disagree with you but I am not sure than mixing and matching the meaning of words and conditions is the best way to attain the goals we all seek. I find it hard to argue that addressing the needs of adult cross dressers or part time 'women', will do anything to clarify the issues confronting the parents of a child who may or may not be suffering from gender dysphoria but is encouraged, not only by his/her peers but by educators and health providers, to identify as trans or transgender. 

 

 

(from Wiktionary):  transvestite ‎(plural transvestites)

1. A person who sometimes wears clothes traditionally worn by and associated with the opposite sex; typically a male who cross-dresses occasionally by habit or compulsion.

"Transgender, unlike transsexual, is a term for people whose identity, expression, behavior, or general sense of self does not conform to what is usually associated with the sex they were born in the place they were born. It is often said sex is a matter of the body, while gender occurs in the mind."

From Yahoo:   "Best Answer:  'Transgender' describes a person, male or female, who dresses, behaves or presents themselves in a way that is different from their gender norm. Transgender includes transvestites/crossdressers, Drag Queens/Kings, androgynes and genderqueers. It does NOT include transsexual people.

'Transsexual' describes a person, male or female, born with a congenital neurological intersex condition (Benjamin's syndrome). Although transsexualism almost always requires some form of medical intervention up to and including genital surgery, it is not defined by, nor restricted to, that treatment."

 

[Guest Angelgrlsue]

I pretty much live my life in stealth mode myself, although starting out in my transition that was difficult to do, eventually I learned and grew and now I just blend in with mainstream society for the most part.  Activism has it's place and I am all for striving for more acceptance and equality within the community at large.  As with using proper pronouns, I think it is ridiculous that we have to come down to having to reeducate or correct people on proper gender ques.  In the group therapy I attend, everyone in the group is required to state how they are to be recognized.   

 

Living in stealth, especially deep stealth, has it's ups and downs like anyone else.  You are correct, their are not very many resources out there for those of us that do live in stealth and just want to live peacefully and quietly as the women and men we are.  I personally do not attend any trans community events anymore, it just has been too political now and well, I would rather be living life and making the most of it. 

[Ravin]

I do think it's important that we keep in mind that INDIVIDUALS are under no obligation to put themselves out there. You should be able to live stealth if you want to. At the same time, however, the inverse is true: no one should HAVE to live stealth. It should not be a prerequisite for personal safety and social integration.

Long before I came to any realizations about my gender identity, I knew I was an outsider. I've never fit in. Transition has made fitting in a bit easier in some ways, but I find that it wasn't an important driver in my transition at all. 

When I started a new job in a new town, where no one knew me pre-transition, I could have remained stealth. Everyone assumed I was gay, because I am in a same-gender marriage, but when the inevitable "so which of you is the biological parent of your children? Are they adopted?" question would come up, I wasn't about to lie. My family is more important to me than what people think about my gender.

I live "don't ask, don't tell" most of the time; my transgender status is not something I feel the need to advertise to every Tom, Jack, and Sally on the street, but if it comes up with acquaintances, I don't hide it, because I'm not ashamed of who I am, or of my history. I have surrounded myself with friends who don't expect me to fit in because they are all "misfits" in some way or another as well; my family had accepted I was the "black sheep" who would go my own way (in religion, sexual orientation, relationships, lifestyle, etc.) long before transition, so really nothing surprised them any more by that point. 

I chose to work in a community where I am never going to fit in to the local culture (I am employed by a tribal government on a reservation), and find I am comfortable with that because no one expects me to fit in. Instead of attempting conformity, I can act from a place of mutual respect. I like it that way.

[Tejana]

On 8/17/2016 at 2:38 PM, Summer4Life said:

Hi Everyone,It's wonderful to meet all of you. I am definitely not new to this forum but I haven't been here since 2008. Back then I was already transitioning but only on the verge of going deep stealth. Since then I have been living deep stealth and very happy with it. However there are some things I wanted to talk about with respect to the trans community that are terrible and not becoming of us. I am talking about activism.I know many of you feel that we should have more of a voice in the world, and that with the changes with respect to gay marriage is like a door opening for us, but I don't believe visibility should be the goal of the transgender community. I honestly empathize with those who have suffered for their being different. I have shared some of that suffering especially early on but part of me can't help but wonder if trying to change the world and laws to suit us, to accept us is helping. Sure, some progress was needed but how far do we want to go?  If anything the increased visibility especially in regards to Kaitlin Jenner has promoted more hatred towards transgendered community. Having a trans woman who happens to be part of an already divisive family receive public praise and awards has fostered vitriol in people who otherwise would never have paid attention to us anyways. I also feel activism such as changing laws, and even attempting to change hearts and minds is kind of forceful and undermining of other peoples values. Even if other people have beliefs that are against us, it's not our place to push our beliefs on them unless they are acting directly against us. I understand the feelings of outrage over public spaces such as restrooms and locker rooms, but in all honesty some of us could deal with a firm dose of reality and common sense in how we conduct ourselves.  Now people who didn't know much about us, are starting to become aware of trans identity, and this will only create more division. At one time we were just seen as some fringe weirdo group, a spec on the existential radar, but now it seems, were being lumped in with raging SJWs. I can't see how this is going to make mainstream people accept us as the women or men that we want to be acknowledged as. In 2008, it seemed the discussions on forums in our community was how to live in stealth. We wanted to be seen as proper men or women. Today I don't see the word stealth come up quite as often in search results. It was like we as a community were once more conservative, or at least evenly split in how we should conduct ourselves. Now it seems being trans is primarily becoming this leftist attention seeking mainstream political movement. I don't think that was ever truly our intention but that's the way we are headed now. I know I am going to upset a lot of people here when I say this, but I feel it should be said. I think our community has been partially hijacked by feminists and narcissists. I think we as a trans community are being used to further other peoples political ideologies, but I don't think non-trans people want to have our identities forced on them. I don't think it's fair to them nor to us to do so.* * *Also another reason I am here. I have been living in stealth since 2008 and post op since 2009. Even though I live among non-trans people (I hate the word cis, sorry) and I am happy with that, sometimes I just miss being able to talk to other trans women and men especially ones like me who have been under the radar for a long time. I think we have different issues from the rest of the transgender community not so much because of trans-phobia, but just by the fact that were on a different life path. I think if you're here reading this, and you are like me, you probably feel somewhat isolated. It's not that being stealth is bad, but it's because you have certain experiences that you can't readily share with just anyone. There are a lot of transgender resources for people especially early on. On the other hand, there are fewer resources for those of us who have been living in the mainstream for a long time. We know what / who we are but sometimes we just need fellow travelers along the way. While I am here, I would like to get to know many of you. I am open to helping those early in transition, but I am interested in getting to know others who are in a similar boat.

Hhmmm....Kinda a relatively old thread that I discovered when browsing some of the older threads & posts; very well written, well reasoned, and pretty articulate. The initial post is much appreciated.

While I don't "follow" any content in these subforums, I look forward to reading further posts by this member (i.e., when I stumble across them).

I certainly share at least some of the perspectives shared with the author of this initial post.  Diversity sounds nice, but I'm personally inclined to think that pluralism subsumed under a dominant culture has greater positive potential.

I do kinda like the word/expression cis-gendered though.  Even though I have to define the word/expression almost everytime I use it, I find it a convenient short-hand reference to the predominant mainstream culture.