NCTE Opposes Ben Carson As HUD Secretary

[Carolyn Marie]

http://www.transequality.org/blog/ncte-opposes-extreme-hud-nominee-who-called-transgender-people-abnormal

Carolyn Marie

[Briana]

I think most reasonable people and groups would oppose his nomination...to anything.  As I've written before, I've met him and listened to him speak at a previous employer.  My feeling was, "boy, can he sure pander to the white conservative fairly religious groups or what??"   Both times I heard him speak at my former employers, I'm sure there were many times I flush red from embarrassment/anger both for myself as well as other people in there that were also LGBT or of color.  He was pretty direct and clear on his thoughts and feelings. 

The movie based on  him may reasonably portray his struggles to get where he got in his career, but it sure does NOT accurately portray who he is as a person.

[Tejana]

 

10 hours ago, Briana said:

I think most reasonable people and groups would oppose his nomination...to anything.  As I've written before, I've met him and listened to him speak at a previous employer.  My feeling was, "boy, can he sure pander to the white conservative fairly religious groups or what??"   Both times I heard him speak at my former employers, I'm sure there were many times I flush red from embarrassment/anger both for myself as well as other people in there that were also LGBT or of color.  He was pretty direct and clear on his thoughts and feelings. The movie based on  him may reasonably portray his struggles to get where he got in his career, but it sure does NOT accurately portray who he is as a person.

Hhmmm.... Well, I think I'll address the "what??"  I am rather certain that if/when one is conservative and religious, that person is not, in fact, pandering.

I also feel compelled to state here that I am troubled about the phrase, "pander to the white conservative..." I'm wondering how the word "white" plays into all initial post's criticisms of Dr. Carson.  Not that I think it was pandering, but would it have been okay to accuse him of pandering to blacks/African-Americans, yellows/Asian-Americans, or reds/American-Indians, or pinks/Mixed-Bloods (i.e., those such as myself)?  [Is this an example of racial bias? If so, is such bias to be tolerated in this forum?  I think such  bias goes beyond mere political differences.]

[Carolyn Marie]

6 minutes ago, Tejana said:

 

  [Is this an example of racial bias? If so, is such bias to be tolerated in this forum?  I think such  bias goes beyond mere political differences.]

I can't answer your first question, Tejana, as that is a matter of personal opinion.  As to the second question, given that this is a forum for discussion of news and politics, it is open to the expression of all ideas, so long as the discussion does not violate the Forum rules.  You are welcome to disagree with Briana's statement, and you have expressed yourself well.  That is as it should be.

Carolyn Marie

[Briana]

Good point Tejana, I can see why one might perceive it that way.  I was basing what I wrote on the context of his talks to us, the audience at the time, and the moment his talks were given to us.  Both were part of a series of how to overcome adversity and help employees become better employees.  i.e The concept was to train our managers how to move low performers on and develop the in between, and ensure good employees (high performer/over achiever types) were valued and didn't leave.  

In terms of management, our organization was not very diverse.  As a leadership team, it was over 90% Caucasian organization-wide.  To illustrate the scope, this particular group at both times wasn't a group of 10 or even 20 people.  It was a little over 500 people.  And that was not the entire organization's team.  That just represented 4 of our facilities.  **  That's a big chunk of people.

Dr. Carson's part of the discussion was to talk about what he overcame to become what he had become - a top neurosurgeon.  It was amazing and incredible.  Very motivational.  His talk was based on key points from the movie that told his story.  We'd watch parts of it, then he'd discuss.  The jist of it was anyone can overcome bad environment (Detroit public housing for him), single parent, poverty, poor schools, a temper control problem (his words), and a learning disability to become whatever they wanted.  

And then he broke into the unscripted part.  A fiery (for him...) discussion on his opinions on public aid, welfare, anti-discrimination laws, race , all kinds of things.  Once he launched into that, it was a non-stop standing "O" for him.  I seriously couldn't believe what I was seeing.  For me, I couldn't believe that a man of color that faced discrimination every day regardless of his occupation etc., that lived in and overcame the environment he grew up in to become a great surgeon, was saying the things he was saying.  

Tejana, you may not feel it was pandering or that the mention of color was important and I can see your point.  No offense on my part was meant and I apologize if you took offense by what I wrote.  However, for me I did feel like it was pandering, or indulging or catering to that specific audience at the time based on what he was saying and the overwhelming racial make up of what the audience (Caucasian) was. 

**(The organization had been called out many times in the last few years about it's lack of racial diversity in all but the entry level low paying jobs vs. the populations it served.  For each of our divisions, we had diversity or racial quotas based on the population our facility served.  Some us tried harder than others to meet them.)

[Drea]

1 hour ago, Briana said:

And then he broke into the unscripted part.  A fiery (for him...) discussion on his opinions on public aid, welfare, anti-discrimination laws, race , all kinds of things.  Once he launched into that, it was a non-stop standing "O" for him.  I seriously couldn't believe what I was seeing.  For me, I couldn't believe that a man of color that faced discrimination every day regardless of his occupation etc., that lived in and overcame the environment he grew up in to become a great surgeon, was saying the things he was saying.  

Why can't someone who overcame such obstacles say what he did?  Isn't he the one who overcame the obstacles?  Can't his overcoming those things qualify him to speak about what is needed to solve the problems, how to overcome the obstacles?  Or is it the person trapped who has the answers?  Or the person who's only success is their being part of advocacy?

It is in fact the norm for people who are members of a discriminated against or disadvantaged group, who have excelled, who end up saying things that fly in the face of the normal sorts of things those who remain trapped by the constraints of such situations.  This is simply because they did not let the bounds limit them.

I have seen this thing happen within this community.  Trans people who were on a road of hopelessness, can't get a job, can't move ahead in life, turn it around.  And what did they do?  They stopped believing in all the limitations they were told.  Stopped accepting as truth that the general public is unaccepting, stopped accepting that they are "unemployable", stopped looking at others as against them.  They stopped that and started doing what they could do to improve themselves, to work on their own issues, rather than trying to fix the world.

[Guest Kaylee]

For my part, I opose Carson being appointed to any government position for a few simple reasons... other than his anti-trans "opinions".

First, he has zero experience. Neither does Trump of coarse, but that's beside the point.

The second,the fact that Ben Carson was a respected neurosurgeon, does NOT make him adept at doing or learning to do other things. It may seem that way, but from what I've seen of him, it's just not the case.

3... his ideas are simply not based in reality. He has stated, and this is on video, that he believes "Joseph built the Great Pyramids in Egypt to store grain." Firstly, The whole Joseph thing happened 500 years or so after the pyramid was built. Second, there is recorded evidence of who built the pyramid (Khufu) and why. Third, if you want to store large quantities of food, it's illogical to have people who are suffering from food shortage to build something so large, difficult and elaborate... with such a small amount of internal storage space. 

If Carson can't understand facts that are so... ridiculously simple... then he isn't qualified for a position in the government.

Personally, I think he's dumb as a stone.

Kaylee

[Briana]

Right Drea, he can...they can.  No issue there.  It's how it's done, it's how it's said - how the message is conveyed, which is obviously difficult for me to describe in text how he did it.  I believe that if one of us were to speak that way to someone that was facing some struggles and discrimination, we'd be bombed with "what's wrong with you how could you talk to a brother or sister in need like that etc."  Probably get a punch in our female or male cards from the mods too.  ;-) 

Take the situation you described above; the trans person that faced many issues and sill overcame and got it all together.  Then here comes trans person "A", on the path to  hopelessness, can't get it together, is facing homelessness, can't get a job etc. "A" meets trans person "B" that faced the same things but pulled through it to become successful.   Trans person "A" looks up to them and looks to them for some guidance - a little hope.  While under no obligation to do so, trans person "B" can either extend a hand, help them look at their situation differently, provide some encouragement, help them understand some of the resources available to them.  Much like what I see many here do most every day, along with their avocation of, and activism for our community.

Or, trans person "B" can look down on trans person "A" and do the "quit your complaining and put on your big person pants, looser" dance and walk away.  And then trans person "B" proceeds to say some of the very protections provided by law that they enjoyed, that helped them get to where they are today, should be dismantled - they're not needed.  Some of those same financial and housing protections that "B" benefited from should be eliminated. 

I personally find the second scenario pretty harsh and unrealistic.  That's the message, the second scenario, that I heard on those two instances.  It just struck me wrong at that point in time.  Still does...  But we're obviously all different and some here believe in activism and advocacy of LGBT rights, some are in the middle on it, and some don't think it's necessary or beneficial at all.  Some in our community believe that anti-discrimination laws are unnecessary, some are in the middle on it, and some believe they are totally necessary...and lobby for them.

We're all different, from different backgrounds and experiences, and have formed our own opinions and beliefs.  We all tend to hear messages, interpret messages differently, even though we hear/read the same words.  For me, he just strikes a very flat, unpleasant chord and I can't support, nor would I feel good about him being in the role he was nominated for.

As a side note, I used to have access to the videos of the conferences (training's?).  Unfortunately, once he started his bid for prez, they were pulled.  I think if most of here on this forum saw them, you'd go, "whatttt"???  He was already openly sharing his views then on the LGBT community.  He spoke openly about how he felt it was aberrant behavior and that it shouldn't be protected under anti-discrimination laws etc.  And my former organization was not LGBT friendly so those comments of course, got a standing "O".  (To illustrate how unfriendly it was, at that point I had already been involved in 3 anti-disc. lawsuits where managers had fired nurses for being trans.  Yes - specifically stated on their separation papers they were dismissed because they were trans.  Those managers that did it felt it upset other staff and patients too much and disrupted care and were justified.  ...But that's a different discussion. )

Let me close by saying...  Hey, it's "Thirsty Thursday" today!  My lovely wife and I stared off with peppermint hot coffee.  Whipped cream too.  For the road, peppermint hot chocolate!  Ya, whipped cream there too.  Guilty pleasure - what can I say.   And tonight, we're gonna have (try?) and eggnog alternative from Whole Foods.  We'll see how good it is.  I confess, I like fruitcake, and I like plain eggnog on ice with nutmeg.  I'll run the extra mile to make up for the cals.  LOL   Have a great day everyone!

[MarcieMarie12]

I like fruitcake too....I am starting my diet January 6th. Holidays are not a good time to diet....

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Kaylee said:

For my part, I opose Carson being appointed to any government position for a few simple reasons... other than his anti-trans "opinions".

First, he has zero experience. Neither does Trump of coarse, but that's beside the point.

The second,the fact that Ben Carson was a respected neurosurgeon, does NOT make him adept at doing or learning to do other things. It may seem that way, but from what I've seen of him, it's just not the case.

3... his ideas are simply not based in reality. He has stated, and this is on video, that he believes "Joseph built the Great Pyramids in Egypt to store grain." Firstly, The whole Joseph thing happened 500 years or so after the pyramid was built. Second, there is recorded evidence of who built the pyramid (Khufu) and why. Third, if you want to store large quantities of food, it's illogical to have people who are suffering from food shortage to build something so large, difficult and elaborate... with such a small amount of internal storage space. 

If Carson can't understand facts that are so... ridiculously simple... then he isn't qualified for a position in the government.

Personally, I think he's dumb as a stone.

Kaylee

I pretty much agree with your thoughts. My base reason for disliking him is based on his bible based hatred and the fact that a neurosurgeon clearly doesn't understand a working brain because of his LGBTQ beliefs. How anyone can claim to understand the brain and hold those ideas is absolutely beyond me.......