Transition cake refused

[Cyndee]

Honestly why go there ? IMHO this story appears wrong on so many levels, do these actions really help or hurt us ? Are lawyers (trans or not) pouring gasoline on the religious freedom fire ?  I would never go to this baker for anything, knowing what you know, would you ?

 

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/16/639147599/colorado-baker-sues-state-again-after-refusing-to-make-cake-for-transgender-woma

 

 

[Jani]

I read that story this morning and wondered the same thing.  Is someone itching for a fight?  This is wrong.  I would never darken the door of this bakery. 

 

Jani

[ChickenLittle]

I know I would rather give my money to somebody who is either a part of the LGBT community or a good ally. But I'm lucky to live in a place with many options like that. 

[VickySGV]

I am sad to say that this was a fight that should not have been picked.  He got to keep his ball last time because the state blew the thing. Ignoring him and giving him and his money backers no press is what we can do to him.  Lets find a better bakery store, and I know there are better bakeries in town, and make them rich. The dude uses too much vanilla extract no natter what he puts together.

[Josiep]

Folks, The thought of Attempting to force "Anyone" to do something that they don't believe is right, is abhorrent in itself. Those of us that are in the CD/TV/TS/TG community don't need to draw negative attention to our selves. Now if we don't agree with a business, then we vote with our feet and pocketbooks. All sides need practice tolerance and coexistence. There are places, businesses and people that I don't agree with or like, I don't go out and agitate them, I ignore them and go my way. That is what I expect them to do to me as well. 

[SugarMagnolia]

I have to respectfully disagree although I certainly understand the sentiments expressed above.

The incident in the article took place in 2017 so it's before the most recent rulings, I believe. Also, the action being taken is by the baker not the customer that asked for the cake. What bothers me most is what the baker is asking for:
"Phillips is asking the court for permanent injunctions against the state from enforcing Colorado anti-discrimination laws against him as well as $100,000 in punitive damages."

I suspect that the transition cake request was a political action. I have no problem with that. What is at stake is the question of whether or not religious beliefs trump all other considerations of social equality. If they do, then all civil rights that have been fought for are in grave jeopardy. What will prevent someone from saying that their religious beliefs prevent them from serving non-white people or an  ambulance business owner from instructing EMTs  not to provide life saving care to trans people? 

It's all well and good to want to avoid this and shop elsewhere, but doing so normalizes the behavior and is a slippery slope to enabling much worse things, in my opinion. 

[Cyndee]

Thanks Julie for pointing out this aspect to the story, I appreciate your input. I get that the original complaint could have been an activism maneuver. Without knowing many details, it just smells like a predatory litigation that started at the CO state level in the first place. A lawyer, going after someone they knew would object to making a "transition cake", for the purpose of "making a case" and here we are today.

 

While I certainly understand the activist angle to motivate someone to "go there". Now one has to question the outcome and where this might be headed given the timing of events. The baker is now emboldened, having already won the case against the gay couple, now going after the trans person or the state in this case that acted on behalf of the trans person. Given the larger context, and we are now awaiting a pending SCOTUS nominee. Given the fact that the US attorney general Jeff Sessions is now heading up a "religious freedom task force", it's concerning where this might be headed. Is this appeal working in tandem with Sessions ? Would this case if tried before the next SCOTUS line up including someone like a judge Kavanaugh actually make things worse in the long run, especially if the baker wins his appeal ?

 

No one really wins in the end, except lawyers I suppose with something like this....Sad it's come to this, really.

 

C -

 

 

 

[SugarMagnolia]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this, CyndiRae. We could both argue our various sides of this until we're blue in the face and have important reasonable points to make. I suspect we'd even agree with each other about a lot of it.

I'll simply say that I believe the civil rights act of 1964 did the right thing in restricting private business from arbitrarily denying public accommodation to those in protected classes (race, religion, color or national origin). I'm of the belief that gender and gender expression should also be included and thankfully I live in a state in which it is. How best to handle situations where businesses disregard those laws is another thing entirely and I agree with you that the lawyers are the ones that benefit the most. ?

Best,
Julie

[Cyndee]

We also enjoy protections at the state level here in WA for gender expression in many areas, agreed with you and quite grateful for that Julie

 

C -

 

[MarcieMarie12]

6 hours ago, SugarMagnolia said:

It's all well and good to want to avoid this and shop elsewhere, but doing so normalizes the behavior and is a slippery slope to enabling much worse things, in my opinion. 

 

The conclusion I came to is that for him to have an open storefront means that his shop is open to serve the public. If there are exclusions he wishes to have he should not open a public business and work on referral only, within his approved "christian" community. He is trying to have his cake and eat it too. Can he refuse a Muslim wedding cake, a Hindu wedding cake too? Again it is a slippery slope. And if you did allow it and there was constant protests in front of his business, he should not expect to have any recourse either. Nor for those he does do business who decide to boycott him in retaliation. 

[Charlize]

I agree with you Marcie.  A business open to the public is just that.  Unfortunately we are sliding towards a religious justification for prejudice in the same way racial recrimination was used.  November is coming but even so old ideas will take generations to change and some will hold on to hate as a way to feel better about themselves regardless.  It is a pity that it hurts some so profoundly.  A cake is just a symbol of that which instead should be a symbol of joy.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize