Trump Admin Backs Idaho Trans Athlete Sports Ban

[Carolyn Marie]

https://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/article243667922.html

 

That's about the least surprising thing I've read all day.

 

Carolyn Marie

[VickySGV]

Well, we have seen the SCOTUS find against his positions twice this past week,  we may have a run of luck on this one that way.

[Dana Michelle]

I don't think the situation is entirely fair to cisgender women, but I don't think simply excluding transgender women is right either. I think they should attempt some kind of balance. I don't know the right way to do this, but some suggestions are:

 

• Duplicate awards, so that if a transgender woman wins first place and a cisgender woman wins second, both would be given first place awards.
• Create a handicap for transgender athletes, so if it is a race, the cisgender athletes get a head start, or transgender athletes have to run further, or transgender athletes scores are multiplied by a certain factor.
• Schools and colleges should run sports leagues that do not give awards (in addition to the ones that do). This would give both transgender and cisgender the opportunity to simply have fun for those not interested in being competitive. Also, it would give cisgender athletes who can't make the team a chance to play.

2 hours ago, Suzanne1 said:

I will pose a question to all of us mtf's.  If you had, by the grace of God, been born a genetic female-----how would you feel about competing against individuals who were born genetic-male, w/ all the physical advantages given to that sex?  [And remember, administration of female-sex hormones will not cancel out all those inherent/innate advantages.]

 

I guess  if one is only competing for the fun, enjoyment, character-building camaraderie of sports-----maybe that's be okay.  But, how about genetic females losing out on perks of wining athletic competitions?  Losing  badly needed scholarships, first-string starting positions on team rosters, lesser-pay/-contracts/-endorsements for those who might have been good enough to make sports a career?  It would likely hurt very badly, and that pain would come out exactly as it has for the girls & women who have lost competitions to mtf trans-folks.

 

Sometimes I think our transgender population can be very insensitive, in such situations.  Our behavior in such situations reminds me greatly of the old expression about wanting to eat the cake, but still have it too.

 

Suffice to say, once again, I support the President in his backing of the ban of which this thread addresses.

 

Once again, I'll make a pitch for trans-athletes competing in there own divisions/leagues/etc.

Athletic leagues specifically for transgender women could work nationally or at decent sized universities, but most high schools and small colleges probably don't have enough transgender women to create a league.

I agree that transgender women should think about what this must be like for cisgender athletes, but I think that should go both ways. Cisgender people should think about how we must feel too. Some transgender people can be insensitive, but I don't think the transgender population in general is. One example of a transgender woman critical of transgender women in sports is https://secondtypewoman.info/sports.htm Also, there are insensitive people in every group, and plenty of cisgender people are insensitive towards transgender people as well.

In addition, I think people should think about other advantages and disadvantages in sports. What about cisgender people who are shorter than most people of the same sex? If it's hard for them to compete, is that fair? Should we have leagues for other shorter athletes? How do you draw the line between an unfair advantage for an athlete that should still be allowed vs. should not be allowed?

 

[Carolyn Marie]

For those who say that it is inherently unfair when MtF athletes compete against cis female athletes, I just want to point out that in those states where such competitions are allowed, cis-athletes have won more victories than their trans competitors.  But when that happens, it isn't "news;" it becomes news when the trans athletes win.  The female runner who's case is in the news recently was beaten by her cis-female counterpart in several races before and after the trans athlete's lone victory.  But hardly anyone mentions that, because it's inconvenient and doesn't fit the preferred narrative.

 

Another thing I'd like to point out is that some cis-women and girls are stronger or taller than others, by wide margins.  No one ever says, "lets disqualify that girl because she is 8 inches taller than other girls her age and has a huge advantage when playing basketball."

 

It's complicated and there are valid arguments on both sides, but the arguments tend to get very emotional.  I found this article which I think does a better job than most of laying out the science, the facts and the arguments on both sides.

 

https://sportsscientists.com/2019/03/on-transgender-athletes-and-performance-advantages/

 

Carolyn Marie

[Heather Shay]

I just noticed this post and I agree that - do to no fault of our own - testosterone does give mtf's an unfair advantage in most athletic events for women. It's like steroids in baseball a few years back or Lance Armstrong in bike thingy - I think it's unfair that some athletes can use drugs to enhance their ability including the big T (intentional or nt).

 

[VickySGV]

Show me the numbers, show me the numbers.  I do not see the numbers. 

 

As a parable! My grandson's special music conservatory Assistant Program Director, told  the story where a very privileged parent got upset that their kid was not First Chair in a concert, and had actually been notified the child would not be in the program the following year.  She was asked how often the kid even took the the violin out of the case to practice at home and how much time was spent.  She actually said the kid did not practice, but was so bright and talented  and the school refused to see it and give them the honor they were due.  It was a terrible shame that all those other students with less talent got the spots, even without the talent she knew her child had. Why didn't mom make the kid practice?  She knew the brat was so talented she did not need to have them do things to earn the honor.. (My grandson practices about 2 hours at home plus the two at school.)

 

The same holds true with sports, if you are trained and made to push yourself to practice.  A coach I know has Trans athletes female athletes in her coaching job and has observed that Cis female athletes push themselves harder alongside her Trans trainees that she saw them push before.  The Cis girls do run and excel even themselves meanwhile the Trans girls who try as hard are not a serious threat above forth place.   The biggest advantage a Trans girl may have is that boys are pushed into sports and kept from things Cis girls have instead of the sports. 

[Heather Shay]

Thank you Vicky. I read what you said, "listened with an open mind"  (something really lacking in today's world where people talk at each other - but that's another subject for another time). 

 

Your parable and especially your insight the coaches and athletes has changed my mind. I never thought about it that way and I totally agree with what you posit in your analysis.

 

Is it really still okay to be logical (I wasn't sure if that is allowed now that I've come out).

 

Shay

[VickySGV]

1 hour ago, Shay said:

 

Is it really still okay to be logical (I wasn't sure if that is allowed now that I've come out)

 

As long as logic doesn't get in the way of our "girl sense" of being warm and caring humans it is fine.

[Heather Shay]

thank you......phew.....I was worried there for a moment...