I'm so confused about my identity; kind of a mess lol

[Lorchie]

Alright, friends. I was on here back in March wondering about non-binary issues. I thought I had things figured out. I thought I was non-binary as I didn't think I totally fit in with either of the binaries. Then as I grew accustomed to that, I thought I was just straight MtF trans. I had my friends call me by my new name, new pronouns, even came out to the parents, who were NOT ok with it. 

 

I never really thought that I was like a woman in a man's body or anything. I'll admit that I started transitioning because I wanted to look, sound and be portrayed femininely. It doesn't feel totally right to say that, like, "I am a woman," y'know? 

 

Pretty often, I would wake up doubting myself. Doubting if my reasons for transitioning were valid. Doubting if this was really me. Doubting if I was just doing this for attention. But usually during the day I would get over it, and feel better about myself. Some days I wouldn't feel bad at all. Good all day. 

 

After my parents planted their huge doubt seed, I kind of feel like I'd rather not be referred to as...anything? Like just not exist. I just have no idea what to do. What I really am. How I should portray myself. I no longer have any thoughts I can comfortably say are my own, and now I don't have any sense of self left. The past few days, at least, I'd rather no one even acknowledge that I exist, because then I wouldn't have to pick an identity that doesn't work that leads down another rabbit hole of depression and anxiety. 

 

If anyone has had similar experiences, or just has anything to say that could potentially help me through all this, I would super appreciate it. 

[DonkeySocks]

Are you sure it's doubt and not shame? Shame put on you from outside yourself, to try to control you, and it's working. So I have no idea whether this will help you, because maybe you are just doubting and finding yourself and that's okay. But it sounds like your parents shamed you, and you're erasing yourself to avoid the guilt that comes with defying your parents. So in case this is any help at all, in my case with this kind of trouble, the only thing that helps is deliberately replacing the voices of the shamers with the voice of someone else. If you're thinking, "What would my parents think?" If their faces even come up in your mind when you think about gender, have someone else for that position in your life. They might or might not be someone physically present. Ask them, or when they aren't there ask yourself, what your helpful, non-shaming person thinks. If you don't have a self-identity, lean on someone else's pride in you. At first this is really hard because of the guilt and shame. It takes training your mind to hear when your own thoughts are sabotaging you. For instance, "just doing it for attention." What's so wrong about doing things to get attention? Somebody shamed you for that. Replace that person's opinion with the opinion of someone else who wants to strengthen your self-worth. Imagine such a person, if necessary, and rely on their opinions until you form your own.

 

Just a brief other thought based on re-reading your post: you feel this way often in the morning? It can be a sign of depression, when your feelings are worse in the morning.

[Lorchie]

If anything, I get gratification from defying my parents. I've noticed how proud I am of separating myself from them the past few years. I think my main problem was there was already doubt floating around in my head, and their reaction just amplified it, and I don't want to confront them at all afterwards for fear of how it'll make me feel again. 

 

I think what you said about imagining someone else's face or voice when I think about that stuff could be really helpful, as I just talked to a few friends about this and now I feel way better. And as for your suggesting that I just have straight up depression, you're probably totally right, Socks. I've dealt with it extensively before, and if that's what's at work here, then it's likely putting emphasis on doubtful thoughts and such. I appreciate the feedback ❤️

[Berni]

Hi @Lorchie,

First of all, super cute profile pic!

The feelings you are experiencing are not uncommon at all. In her book, Whipping Girl, Julia Serano speaks of :trying on personae for over 20 years ... I strongly recommend this book ... it helped me a lot.

Heres page 84 which may resonate with you (I know it did for me)

...............    

"As time went on, I latched onto all sorts of other gender identities and theories that seemed to hold potential explanations for my subconscious feelings. For quite a while, I thought of myself as a crossdresser and viewed my female subconscious sex as a “feminine side” that was trying to get out. But after years of crossdressing, I eventually lost interest in it, realizing that my desire to be female had nothing to do with clothing or femininity per se. There was also a period of time when I embraced the word “pervert” and viewed my desire to be female as some sort of sexual kink. But after exploring that path, it became obvious that explanation could not account for the vast majority of instances when I thought about being female in a nonsexual context. And after reading Kate Bornstein’s and Leslie Feinberg’s writings for the first time, I embraced the words “transgender” and “queer.” I began to think of myself as bigender, viewing my female subconscious sex as being just as legitimate as my physical maleness. In the years just prior to my transition, I started to express my femaleness as much as possible within the context of having a male body; I became a very androgynous queer boy in the eyes of the world. While it felt relieving to simply be myself, not to care about what other people thought of me, I still found myself grappling with a constant, compelling subconscious knowledge that I should be female rather than male. After twenty years of exploration and experimentation, I eventually reached the conclusion that my female subconscious sex had nothing to do with gender roles, femininity, or sexual expression—it was about the personal relationship I had with my own body. For me, the hardest part about being trans has not been the discrimination or ridicule that I have faced for defying societal gender norms, but rather the internal pain I experienced when my subconscious and conscious sexes were at odds with one another. I think this is best captured by the psychological term “cognitive dissonance,” which describes the mental tension and stress that occur in a person’s mind when they find themselves holding two contradictory thoughts or views simultaneously—in this case, subconsciously seeing myself as female while consciously dealing with the fact that I was male. This gender dissonance can manifest itself in a number of ways. Sometimes it felt like stress or anxiousness, which led to marathon battles with insomnia. Other times, it surfaced as jealousy or anger at other people who seemed to enjoy taking their gender for granted. But most of all, it felt like sadness to me—a sort of gender sadness—a chronic and persistent grief over the fact that I felt so wrong in my body."

[Bri2020]

6 hours ago, Lorchie said:

I never really thought that I was like a woman in a man's body or anything. I'll admit that I started transitioning because I wanted to look, sound and be portrayed femininely. It doesn't feel totally right to say that, like, "I am a woman," y'know? 

I get it.  There isn't a single answer on gender identity. Like many things it's so tied to our psychology which is a huge spectrum.  I've always know I "should" be a woman but it felt more like a miscarriage of justice that I was made a man. It always felt like a desire to correct something but because of the fact that my chromosomes and physical traits were male I never had that "I'm a woman trapped" like statements going through my head. I think others interpret that same feeling as that. I just always felt like a "man who should be a woman" if that makes sense. I do know that my emotional state has vastly improved by my transitioning which validates it for me.  My biggest challenge now is switching my identity thought process from all the lifelong conditioning of being "male".  Right now I feel in limbo- a man TRANSITIONING to womanhood.  The transition if more psychological than physical.  Lets be real, anyone can have surgeries to make one look different but the real transition is internal.  When I struggle with that I get really depressed. Mostly because of the FEAR that I won't ever become truly a woman when that is my deepest need.  Fear is what often drives doubts.  Exploring those fears and subsequent doubts with a therapist is recommended.

And I totally agree with @Berni your profile pic rocks.  

Bernie thank you for that excerpt of "Whipping Girl". It inspired me to order it.

 

[Jackie C.]

I really wouldn't worry about labels sweetie. They're there so other people can easily put us into boxes. Just do what feels right for you. This is all about feeling comfortable in your own skin and living your best life.

 

Hugs!

[Sally Stone]

Lorchie,

 

Take the time explore your feelings without trying to commit to a specific label.  There are so many complexities associated with being trans, it just takes time to sort through it all.  It took a lot of internal reflection for me to finally realize who I was.  I discovered that I had many things in common with many different labels, but the only one that fit was: "I'm me."  If you are like me, you'll realize that the me in each of us is way to complex to describe with a single label.  It's hard, I know, but be patient and you'll come to know who you really are.

[Elizabeth Star]

7 hours ago, Lorchie said:

I had my friends call me by my new name, new pronouns,

It takes a lot of courage and certainty to get to this point.

 

7 hours ago, Lorchie said:

I kind of feel like I'd rather not be referred to as...anything? Like just not exist.

You do exist and that means a lot to us. You wrote you wanted to look, sound and be portrayed femininely and yet part of you feels non-binary. Maybe both are true. Would you feel the same if you were afab?

 

6 hours ago, DonkeySocks said:

Shame put on you from outside yourself, to try to control you, and it's working.

Shame is extremely powerful. When I feel shame I step back and look at where it's coming from. I've always been able to trace it back to someone else. Could've been  a comment or action that happened years before but found it's way into my heart now. Just have to put it in a little box, up on a shelf, until it either disappears or I can give it back.

[Berni]

@Bri2020 You are most welcome.

[KayC]

9 hours ago, Lorchie said:

If anyone has had similar experiences, or just has anything to say that could potentially help me through all this, I would super appreciate it. 

 

Hi Lorchie!  nice to meet you, and Welcome!

Yes, your story of questioning and continuous cycles of doubt is very familiar to my own (it took me waaayy more many years than you to get to that point though).  Its as normal as anything, even though there isn't any one "normal" for each person. 

I very much identify with the lifelong journey of discovery that @Berni posted from her book example.  I have gone through most every stage of that to get to where I am today.  BUT! it wasn't until I went to gender therapy that I truly discovered a more concrete understanding of myself, both gender identity and just what kind of quacky human being I am (still working on that second part).

Not the having understanding and support of your parents (and society) likely contributes to your dysphoria.  So, if its possible for you to seek gender therapy I highly recommend it.  Hoping the best for you❣️

Deep breaths ... one step at a time

[DonkeySocks]

6 hours ago, Lorchie said:

I just talked to a few friends about this and now I feel way better.

 I am glad to hear that you have supportive friends!

[Lee H]

Hi Lorchie -- I wasn't here when you were here the first time, but I'm glad you're back. I'm hoping we'll be hearing more from you.

 

Pretty much forever, I was struggling with the correct "definition" and "characteristics" for my "mental disorder?" "Cross-dressing fetish?" Blahdy, blah blah. My take now is the so-called "experts" hear of someone with a set of characteristics to which they apply a name, decide those characteristics define a "condition," then try to stuff anyone with more-or-less similar characteristics into that definition -- emphasize the "more," de-emphasize the "less" and "Voila!" you have been blessed with a diagnosis. They tell you you must have that condition, and all its characteristics therefore must apply to you, too. Of course, I was hitting dead ends down every "diagnostic" path. Nothing fit. Sooo ,... 

 

I started reading this Forum, and hearing a very liberating thought repeated often: "You are who you say you are." "No one can define you, except yourself." "Transition is a journey, not a destination." Inasmuch as I had that "permission" to stop trying to fit into anybody's definition of my gender and sexuality -- and I do not really have one of my own -- I decided to go a day at a time. My idea is just to let the definition take care of itself. Let my gender identity develop of its own accord. When I do something feminine -- like this Forum -- I pay attention to how it feels. Good? Do it again. Not good? Don't. After a morning shower: "How do I want to smell today? What look will help me feel more comfortable with that person in the mirror? Make up? How do I want to dress? What do I want to do?" I just participate in whatever gender identity feels right for that day, or whatever part of the day during which it feels good, and to whatever extent I want. The collection of those days will be proof positive of the person toward whom my journey has been taking me, up to today.

 

So far this methodology has led me to an appointment this week with my endocrinologist to start HRT. I'm 76 with medical conditions, so that's a big decision for me. Of course I feel doubt sometimes, but other times I don't. Everyone says such occasional doubts are normal and expected, and most girls on here have had them, I think. When I hear the internal committee bitching and moaning, I just growl back "STFU," and keep doing what feels comfortable. I know that nothing will happen overnight, and people stop HRT, too. Surgery is a one way street of course, but I am a long way from that decision. If and when it comes, I'll be a different person. So I plan to try to savor every day, pay attention to how it feels, and let tomorrow take care of itself. I'll decide tomorrow what I'll be doing tomorrow -- ie, what the next step will be in my journey. 

 

With lots of hugs for you, and good wishes,

~~ Leah ~~

 

 

[Ivy]

13 hours ago, Lorchie said:

I never really thought that I was like a woman in a man's body or anything

Yeah, me either.   I just felt that I had all these feminine traits that I had to hide.  It was only years later when I dared to act on them that things began to fall into place for me.

[KathyLauren]

16 hours ago, Lorchie said:

I never really thought that I was like a woman in a man's body or anything. I'll admit that I started transitioning because I wanted to look, sound and be portrayed femininely. It doesn't feel totally right to say that, like, "I am a woman," y'know?

 

Hi, Lorchie.

 

I felt the same way for a long time.  I couldn't say that I felt like a "woman in a man's body", because I couldn't say I felt like a woman.  But just like you, I wanted to present myself femininely.

 

It took me a long time to realize that "man" and "woman" aren't feelings.  No one "feels like" a woman or a man. 

 

People feel happy presenting like a woman, and call that "feeling like a woman".  Or they feel happy presenting like a man, and call that "feeling like a man".  We were forced to present like men and hated it.  So, not only did we not feel like women, we didn't feel like men either.  So, when I realized that I, too, feel happy when presenting like a woman, I started saying that I feel like a woman, and I am a woman.

 

It was an evolution of my self-image.  When I first started seeing a therapist, I could not tell her that I thought of myself as a woman.  Trans woman was as far as I was prepared to go at that time.  But now that I understand myself better, I don't hesitate to call myself a woman, because I am one and have always been one.

[Teejay]

I feel much the same way right now as you Lorchie. It has felt like a constant state of internal battle for me for so long and personally it's exhausting. While I am now pushing forward with HRT which is something I have wanted to do for a long time, I am still in a constant state of doubt and well honestly shame. This was always something I put in the "don't think about it" basket and I just focused on work or gaming or anything that kept me distracted.

 

I guess I have wanted to write something similar to this for a long time but I didn't really feel like I could express it correctly and also I have lots of conflicting thoughts about expressing myself and bring other people down for lack of a better way of putting it. So thank you for writing this and also thanks to everyone that has responded it it was really helpful to read.

[Lorchie]

Oh my gosh I wasn’t expecting such a big response. Thank you all so much for your insight and reassurance. I think what I’ve mainly taken away from all this, which I knew at one point but it was lost somehow, was that I don’t need a specific label. Sure the parents probably want one to know what they’re dealing with, but I don’t think I’ll ever fit perfectly into either side of the spectrum, and that’s ok. 
 

It’s also good to know a lot of you had long periods of trying to find yourself and not being totally sure what was going on. That makes me feel a lot less alone. 
 

You’ve all been so helpful and I can’t thank y’all enough. I’m not much of a forum gal but I want to stick around here. Seems like everyone here is an amazing, helpful person and coming back to read all these comments gave my mood a huge boost that was very much needed today. 
 

Again, thanks so much everyone ?

[AmberM]

@Lorchie I think when I first started out, it was very much I didn't feel like I was a man or a woman too. There were urges to dress femininely, or present more feminine. This wasn't possible with my family at the time, so I repressed how I felt and the dark feelings of dysphoria and body image issues that came with it. Only after tackling the mental health side of the house, am I years later able to start talking about gender identity and figuring out what that meant. Through gender therapy I developed a self-identity of me, instead of being as concerned about what box I fit into for someone else.

 

I am still doing therapy, and recommend it to anybody who has gender questions even, because they can help facilitate at least an internal dialogue, if not external dialogue or your gender identity. It might remain somewhere in the middle, that is okay. Being non-binary is aloud, being trans-feminine is aloud, figuring out you fit into the cis box is aloud. These are just some of the many varieties of combinations you could come to, and I am sure there are more, because one important thing my therapist keeps reminding me: Gender is not a binary, but a spectrum.

[Elizabeth Star]

24 minutes ago, Teejay said:

I put in the "don't think about it" basket and I just focused on work or gaming or anything that kept me distracted.

I did this for decades. I found anything and everything could to not think about it. Eventually it caught up with me in a bad way. If you have support, any will do, explore and find yourself. I am the way I am supposed to be but I will always wish I didn't wait so long.