The Presidential Debate: Your Thoughts...

[A. Dillon]

I am not making this topic for a political argument. I just wanted to start a thread for people to discuss their stance on the candidates and their platforms. The most important part of any democracy is informed voting, and I think it is important to have resources for trans people to know where each leader stands. Keep it civil, keep it factual, and keep an open mind. Now, let the discussion begin!

[SydneyAngel]

Both of them didn’t help there cause not really hurt it. I think Biden telling the president to “shut up “ was disgraceful. 

[Jackie C.]

The debates were kind of a waste of time. We already know where Trump stands (because he's been telling us, loudly, since before he was selected) and you can't have "winning" if only one side believes in rules. No new information unearthed. Both candidates remain who I thought they were.

 

Hugs!

[VickySGV]

It simply was not a debate.  I have taken part in many as a Trans Community activist, and the debates are meant to provide information on both (or several) points of view to inform and educate.  There are rules for them, and taking only your own time is one of them.  That did not happen.  Debates involve an element of respect that was sadly missing.  You are hoping to even change the mind of your opponent or get them to alter a stance.  None of that was on the air.  Lastly, it turned into bad entertainment and not something to help an on-the-fence voter decide who would go on to lead best.

[SydneyAngel]

Maybe the next one will be better now that they got the insults out 

[Jackie C.]

1 hour ago, Sydneyblue said:

Maybe the next one will be better now that they got the insults out 

 

I admire your optimism. Even if I don't share it.

 

Hugs!

[SydneyAngel]

1 hour ago, Jackie C. said:

 

I admire your optimism. Even if I don't share it.

 

Hugs!

Like I said maybe I doubt it will stop. The problem is Biden really has nothing to say. 47 years and nothing to show for it. Flip flopping on gay marriage for one. 

[Ivy]

It's  a matter of trying to figure out the lesser of two evils - kinda like last round.

[Jackie C.]

17 hours ago, Jandi said:

It's  a matter of trying to figure out the lesser of two evils - kinda like last round.

 

Really? I don't like Joe for president. I really don't think he's what America needs right now (or, y;know, ever), but I'd vote for Cthulhu eating my soul with a side of kittens before I went for four more years of 45.

 

Hugs!

[Ivy]

2 hours ago, Jackie C. said:

but I'd vote for Cthulhu eating my soul with a side of kittens before I went for four more years of 45.

Yeah.  That's the thing.

[Abi]

Can we just vote no confidence? I would prefer to see a true middle class activist that knows how to use a shovel for a change. Neither of these candidates will be vocal for minorities a day after the election is over. Both represent very flawed morals. I would vote for safety over sensationalism any day but that safety will come with a price too. The fact that 45 has Covid will be a major issue. 

[Jackie C.]

That would be nice, but we've got something like five members of congress that are actually progressive. Any real change is going to take at least a generation while we age-out the problem candidates. My fondest hope is that as America watches the rest of the world run rings around us, my fellow Americans start to wake up and wonder why that is. I probably won't live to see it. In the meantime, I focus on changing what I can and shouting my opinion whenever I can. Hopefully something will stick.

 

Hugs!

[Abi]

1 hour ago, Jackie C. said:

In the meantime, I focus on changing what I can and shouting my opinion whenever I can. Hopefully something will stick.

That is as peaceful an approach as possible I think given the current divisions in our society but, I pray for greater acceptance and neither of these people represent the lives of the downtrodden. They never lived like us. They could never know us as equals. They can hardly represent us. Thus my lack of confidence that they will have a hand open to possibility or change. Quite the opposite, I fear.

[Jackie C.]

I completely agree. They do not represent us. As I said, maybe a handful of those that govern us understand our struggles and want things to improve. Unfortunately, the system we're struggling against is vast and sweeping change isn't going to happen overnight. More people need to be outraged first. We aren't there yet. I'd... I'm not sure I want to be there honestly, it's going to be ugly when it happens, but the people where I live are pretty complacent and the media is pretty good at lulling the population back to sleep.

The only tools I have are at the local level. To use a gaming metaphor, our government is "pay-to-win" and I'm too close to the poverty line to afford lootboxes. I can vote, so I vote vigorously. I volunteer my time where it looks like it might help, but my platform isn't that big. I can only reach so many people.

 

As for change, I doubt it will happen this cycle. Joe is a moderate conservative. Trump is fascist-curious at least. They both represent their respective parties, or at least the forces that finance the political circus. The rest of the world is looking at us like we've lost our minds... and we really have. America has lost her way. It's going to be a long, hard road to fix the institutional problems inherent in our system. It's going to be harder because 33-ish percent of our population is trying to tear down any progress we make. I'm afraid the country won't survive the inevitable corrections and we'll fragment like the Soviet Union did. That might not be a bad thing. The world doesn't really need superpowers. If the playing field were more level, we might end up with more cooperation and compromise. At the very least, a more level-headed superpower might emerge.

 

So yeah, change. America needs it to survive. Unfortunately, the people in charge are afraid that change might make them slightly less rich. That spark of greed is probably going to be what ends the Great American Experiment.

 

Hugs!

[Ivy]

1 hour ago, Jackie C. said:

Unfortunately, the people in charge are afraid that change might make them slightly less rich. That spark of greed is probably going to be what ends the Great American Experiment.

I can't help believing that's what got us here

[Abi]

1 hour ago, Jackie C. said:

At the very least, a more level-headed superpower might emerge.

I'm not sure this is how power has or will ever be used. I see all too many people that seek power they can not wield. It truly is only someone that does not wish to have this power that can respect it's effect on all people. Figuring out what works best for the majority is not good enough. Focusing everything minorities seems to be just an altered version of neglect as well. The USSR split and every one of it's pieces has suffered the lack of unity in some way. Our government did not understand how to approach their way of life and demonized them before they had a chance to see what working together could have done for the entire world. People just don't work together enough unfortunately. So here we are. Baby steps are better than nothing.

[Jackie C.]

I bring up the USSR because America is falling apart the same way. The pathology is going to be a little different, but the diagnosis is going to be the same. Basically, our society needs to shift towards valuing people for all the richness and diversity the bring to the world. Instead we look at them like cogs in a machine. The first question you get asked when you meet someone new (well, after your name) is "what do you do?"

 

They don't do that in other places. Sure, some places, but not GOOD places. You can't talk about why you're in the same place together, or what your hobbies might be. It's "What do you do?" The question after that boils down to, "What side are you on?" That's it. As far as American society is concerned I'm Jackie C., Unemployed Animator, Stinking Liberal. Nothing past that matters.

 

If you want to know what really matters to a society, look at what they spend their money on. Our taxes go overwhelmingly to a military that we use to bully much smaller nations. Not infrastructure. Not helping our people, but defending ourselves from imaginary boogey-men and stealing from other nations. At the local level, funds go the same way. Police. Not all the social programs that actually help, they just give those jobs to the police force and tell them to handle it. The police are a hammer. They're good for keeping the peace. They're less good at rehabilitation, tackling social ills, etc... So what are we, as Americans, focused on? Bullying the weaker nations of the world and making sure to protect the wealth of the citizens that have some.

 

I find that heartbreaking. The American people deserve better. We should be ashamed.

 

Hugs! (I just bummed myself out again.)

[Abi]

@Jackie C., I wish your entire last message was what we would hear even one prominent politician say on live news. 

[Ivy]

2 hours ago, Abi said:

@Jackie C., I wish your entire last message was what we would hear even one prominent politician say on live news. 

Same

[SydneyAngel]

3 hours ago, Jackie C. said:

That would be nice, but we've got something like five members of congress that are actually progressive. Any real change is going to take at least a generation while we age-out the problem candidates. My fondest hope is that as America watches the rest of the world run rings around us, my fellow Americans start to wake up and wonder why that is. I probably won't live to see it. In the meantime, I focus on changing what I can and shouting my opinion whenever I can. Hopefully something will stick.

 

Hugs!

 

[SydneyAngel]

I know President Trump isn’t popular in the community. Honestly he is the only one who can get us through this hard time and put the economy back on track. Jobs need to be in America and China needs to be held in check. Do you see sleepy joe doing this ? Trump is going to put trans people in concentration camps so until that happens I will support him. The violence needs to stop and we need to stop pretending criminals are heroes. 

[Ivy]

1 hour ago, Sydneyblue said:

The violence needs to stop and we need to stop pretending criminals are heroes. 

The violence only makes things worse for sure.

I don't expect much from Biden but I can't see him being worse than the current regime.  

Just my opinion of course.

[Jackie C.]

1 hour ago, Sydneyblue said:

know President Trump isn’t popular in the community. Honestly he is the only one who can get us through this hard time and put the economy back on track. Jobs need to be in America and China needs to be held in check. Do you see sleepy joe doing this ? Trump is going to put trans people in concentration camps so until that happens I will support him. The violence needs to stop and we need to stop pretending criminals are heroes. 

 

Reasoning please? I'm curious how the current regime can (or actually cares to) fix the problem they caused, and continue to foster vs. literally anyone else. I don't expect Joe to fix all the problems, but a blue wave can keep things from getting worse and maybe start to lay the groundwork to repairing the damage.

 

Unfortunately, the only way we're going to see any change is if people get mad enough to strike the bottom lines of our corporate overlords. Until they are at least inconvenienced, they do. Not. Care. The only thing they care about is their profits. The only way we're going to impact those is to create a disruption. We need to remember that the real enemy here isn't protesters. It's the companies that are making billions of dollars from our suffering. Profit from human suffering is never acceptable.

 

I agree jobs need to be kept here. However the people funding 45 and his Legion of Doom do not. The companies that run the government (we're pay to win, remember?) like things just the way they are. They continue to offshore everything they possibly can while 45 cuts their social obligations (taxes). In the meantime, they continue to try and divide the people so we don't rise up and eat them (I am not advocating cannibalism, it's unhealthy).

 

We need to be organized and we need to take care of each other. The people that profit from the system have no reason to fix it. We need change, but 45 and his cult are a step backwards. Joe is not great, but he's better than the sucking wound we have now. At the very least punishing the people responsible for this mess might deter others in the future.

 

I don't like Joe for president. I honestly don't care for something like 95% of the Democratic party. Unfortunately, we are left with two bad choices because our system is rigged. The least-bad choice doesn't color himself orange before he appears on camera. Joe has promised to be a one-term president. My hope at this point is that he can be the finger in the -lesbian- for now. Then we use his term in office to re-organize into something that can give us real change. That's the only way this ends without more blood in the streets.

 

If you noticed, this cycle had a number of politicians financing their campaign completely from grass-roots donors. I think that's a good thing. We need... well, technically less than that. In a perfect world all candidates would be given a set budget and be disqualified if they deviated from it. Still, a campaign that does not use dark money from American oligarchs is a start. We can't have solid politicians that are beholden to the people who are the problem. 

 

This is going to get ugly. US forces have already been deployed against US citizens. The forces that are arrayed against the American people are not going to go gently into that final good-night. I don't think the revolution is going to happen just yet though. We've still got too much to lose.

 

Probably soon though.

 

Hugs! (I did it again. I need to go have a cry in the corner.)

[SydneyAngel]

1 hour ago, Jackie C. said:

 

Reasoning please? I'm curious how the current regime can (or actually cares to) fix the problem they caused, and continue to foster vs. literally anyone else. I don't expect Joe to fix all the problems, but a blue wave can keep things from getting worse and maybe start to lay the groundwork to repairing the damage.

 

Unfortunately, the only way we're going to see any change is if people get mad enough to strike the bottom lines of our corporate overlords. Until they are at least inconvenienced, they do. Not. Care. The only thing they care about is their profits. The only way we're going to impact those is to create a disruption. We need to remember that the real enemy here isn't protesters. It's the companies that are making billions of dollars from our suffering. Profit from human suffering is never acceptable.

 

I agree jobs need to be kept here. However the people funding 45 and his Legion of Doom do not. The companies that run the government (we're pay to win, remember?) like things just the way they are. They continue to offshore everything they possibly can while 45 cuts their social obligations (taxes). In the meantime, they continue to try and divide the people so we don't rise up and eat them (I am not advocating cannibalism, it's unhealthy).

 

We need to be organized and we need to take care of each other. The people that profit from the system have no reason to fix it. We need change, but 45 and his cult are a step backwards. Joe is not great, but he's better than the sucking wound we have now. At the very least punishing the people responsible for this mess might deter others in the future.

 

I don't like Joe for president. I honestly don't care for something like 95% of the Democratic party. Unfortunately, we are left with two bad choices because our system is rigged. The least-bad choice doesn't color himself orange before he appears on camera. Joe has promised to be a one-term president. My hope at this point is that he can be the finger in the -lesbian- for now. Then we use his term in office to re-organize into something that can give us real change. That's the only way this ends without more blood in the streets.

 

If you noticed, this cycle had a number of politicians financing their campaign completely from grass-roots donors. I think that's a good thing. We need... well, technically less than that. In a perfect world all candidates would be given a set budget and be disqualified if they deviated from it. Still, a campaign that does not use dark money from American oligarchs is a start. We can't have solid politicians that are beholden to the people who are the problem. 

 

This is going to get ugly. US forces have already been deployed against US citizens. The forces that are arrayed against the American people are not going to go gently into that final good-night. I don't think the revolution is going to happen just yet though. We've still got too much to lose.

 

Probably soon though.

 

Hugs! (I did it again. I need to go have a cry in the corner.)

I dont agree with you 

 

The president has said prior to election 

 

1) build a wall 

 

2) repeal and replace obamacare ( which promoted no reason to work )

 

3) bring jobs back 

 

This is just 3 which he is doing as we speak. 

 

I dont easily get offended which i think alot of people were early on. The left didnt condemn  the violence until there votes were in question. Thats a total disgrace. The attack on police because of so called " racism " and calling these people heroes i am completely baffled. We dont need News like CNN and MSNBC. 

 

I understand you dont like him but people need jobs and Trump is the only one who can deliver that. I know he has hurt the Trans community but without jobs none of us can afford transition 

[Jackie C.]

Back at you. It's not just a dislike of 45. I'm judging him by his actions.

 

There are sections of... frankly terrible... wall. They were constructed with funds stolen from military housing. They are easily defeated with cheap equipment from any hardware store. Presuming you don't just walk around. Military families suffer so Trump could have monument to failure.

 

He's working hard to repeal the ACA, which millions of Americans, including myself, depend on so we can afford health insurance. I pay about $800 out of pocket every month for (terrible) health insurance under the ACA. The Republicans have no plan to replace it.

 

While there has been some minimal job growth, they've been typical "gig" jobs or minimum wage growth (i.e. at the bottom). They still aren't back to where we were before his tax cuts blew up the economy. But hey, the ultra-rich are doing great.

 

We don't actually have a "left" in this country. We have Center Right (Democrats) and Wingnut Right (Republicans). I don't condone the violence either, but, again, unless we disrupt the cash flow to the people who are holding us down we can't have nice things.

 

We may have different views of the police. I live near Detroit which has a large "not white" community. Hell, my neighborhood was founded by a rush of white people trying to escape Detroit while it integrated. My friends are routinely molested for things like "driving while black," "walking while black" and "being harassed by police for being black at home." That is in spite of awareness and outreach campaigns to try and bring the police and the citizens closer together. This has been going on for YEARS. While I don't condone the violence, I completely understand the rage and frustration that builds up when you are routinely hassled, threatened and killed by the people who are supposed to protect you just for the color of your skin.

"Defund the police" is a bad slogan, but "Take some of the money that goes to police and spend it on programs that address mental health issues and social programs to increase stability," doesn't fit on a bumper sticker.

 

Fun fact, cable news... that's the entire spectrum from FOX to MSNBC... doesn't have to be factual. Under broadcast rules they're not actually "News." They're all lying to you for the agenda of whoever owns them.

 

Trump has a record of using illegals and not paying them. I agree that people need jobs, but they need jobs they can live off of. Trump isn't going to give them that. Biden isn't either. Like I said, it's my hope that whoever is next can start helping us heal.

 

I'd say we could meet in the middle, but the middle is still WAY too right-wing for me. Stupid Overton window. I can tell you that every Republican president in my lifetime has been exponentially worse than the one that proceeded him. I started with Nixon. Well, maybe not Bush the 1st, he wasn't that much worse than Regan. I can also say we've been hit with a recession in the wake of every Republican president in my lifetime. Their policies are not good for the economy. Hell, Kansas tried every policy in the playbook. Their economy imploded inside of three months.

 

Right-wing policies do not benefit people like you and me (unless one of us is or becomes part of the 1%). We need to try something else.

 

Hugs!