Being Out !

[Guest Zenda]

Being OUT! What does being out mean for some transgender people-Does it mean simply telling someone that you are trans but not living it on a daliy basis or coming out and living 24/7 ?

Then the other question I ask is how often when you are already OUT have you come OUT again but in reverse...CONFUSED ? Example; say you've affirmed your gender identity and 'pass' in society as your A.G.I then one day you see fit to tell a stranger you have just met about your past ...are you really coming OUT again or going back IN ? Remember this stranger thought you were female by birth... Confusing isn't !

I came OUT to my family and friends and then AGIed and began life IN society as a female but on the odd occassions I might tell someone of my past...Am I 'OUTING' the former 'male' me or the 'female' me who they have already accepted as the real me ?

Food for thought !

Metta Jendar

[Guest Jenny]

I have heard people discuss this and I think it all depends on the situation and the relationship that person is to you. Personnally I would not see a need to tell anyone unless:

1. They heard a rumour or someone told them;

2. I was gettting involved with someone romantically; or

3. I guess for medical reasons.

[Guest angie]

Howdy Jendar,

You always have such thought provoking posts dear.

For the first three years after telling my extended family of my desire to live female...

I did nothing,but dress on occasion...there were major constraints in my life back then.

Dolling or even dressing was something that came in very short bursts...lasting no more than a hour or two at the most. Here,i know who i want to be,just not sure how to get where i am heading.

Just imagine ya'll,being out to the world...and not being able to do anything about it.

If asked,i would not deny that i am Trans...but looking at me,you couldn't see her.

When i came home the 11th of October of last year...i threw off the yoke of my manhood.

Now,i'm not saying i didn't slip back into my old me...trying to find the real me,was no walk in the park.

And as i have grown accustom to being me all the time...I have outed myself a few times...guardedly.

As i have told more than one man..."I am presenting female,i expect to be addressed as such."

I always get a,"Yes M'am!'' "It wont happen again M'am."

That my dears,is total satisfaction.

To the world in general,i want to be preceived as a woman period.

But,if my gender is questioned...i will out myself,yes.

So the question,Am I Out? the answer is most definently"YES I AM."

Hugs My Sisters,

Angie.

[Guest Zenda]

Kia ora Jenny 'One step farther along two spirit path' [My Native American name for you...I hope you like it]

My post wasn't about the age old question "to be or not to be" 'ie, shall I or shant I' but a play on the term coming OUT.

I consider myself 'semi' stealth I don't broadcast my past but I'm comfortable telling people if the need should arise... I suppose what I meant in my above post... You come OUT by telling family and friends you are transsexual...[you've come OUT as female]...Now you live in society as female and are perceived as such by society as a whole[they believe you to be a born woman]...then one day you decide to tell a close friend who was unaware of your transsexual past-[they also thought you were a genetic female]...Are you coming OUT as being 'once a male' ???? Because you are not coming OUT as being female because you already are in their eyes...and you did that in your first OUTING!...When living as a male you come OUT as 'female' then when living as a female you come OUT as once being a 'male' It's just a play on the term 'coming OUT'...coming OUT as what !!! "COME OUT COME OUT WHERE [OR WHO] EVER YOU ARE" ...HAPPY OUTING ALL

Angie ! You are so far OUT you wouldn't be able to find your closet door even with the help of the hubble-telescope! [i read that somewhere...thought it was quite funny ]

Metta Jendar

[Guest Katie-Louise]

After coming out i've been living 24/7 as a woman but I've lost the love and support of mostly all the family and freinds now but being my true self is worth it I couldn't continue lying and pretending to be someone else for them at the moment the only family I have is my mom and possibly my nan and grandad. I have also lost my home I can't live at home for medical reasons because I usually don't eat or drink causing drastic weight loss and because I have to continue to pretend for my brother and dad on occasions although they know. Being out is a relief although i've lost nearly everything at 16 yrs old my counsellor said i'm coping well although the 3 attempted suicides. I think coming out is also showing society who you are I went out in public the other day and I passed which was a releif lots of love,

Katie

xxxxxx

[Guest angie]

Ola Katie,

My dear,at the age in which you have found your self,be good be patient.

And nothing but good can come of your situation.

A whole lifetime of being the real you?

Magic.

Big Hugs Young Woman,

Angie.

[Zufrieden]

Hi all:

Somebody on the chats the other day asked me if I was "out". I couldn't really say. I still don't know.

As mentioned, both "out" and "stealth" can work in either direction.

I'm a 24/7 type person. I can only be me. I can't maintain two personas.

I'm on HRT but still dress exactly as I used to except that I wear larger shirts and sports bras.

So presumably this makes me "stealth" in one of its two senses.

It's not a major problem that people see me as a male. People are usually wrong about most things!

On the other hand, I've told all my friends and would tell more distant friends if I happened to talk or email them.

If, for some reason, the guy at the gas station asked me seriously, I would say that I'm a transsexual.

I don't want to lie or keep secrets. That doesn't mean I go out of my way to cause trouble for myself.

So, am I "out"? I don't know. I don't need an answer for myself, only for the questioner on the chats.

Z.

[Guest Zenda]

Kia ora

Z it sounds like you're INSIDE-OUT OR OUTSIDE IN...Half a dozen of one or six of the other Whatever you are I take it you're happy and that's what matters. Correct me if I'm wrong but the stealth you mentioned is the 'transsexual'you...your 'transsexual' nature is 'stealth' to most strangers you meet.

Katie,

Mums are one of the most if not the most important people in our lives and for your mum to support you for who you are is FANTASTIC so be HAPPY and thankful each day for the unconditional love you share with your MUM plus your natural androgynous looks provides another Mother 'Mother Nature' with a canvas on which to do a work of art...There will be no more'all mones'when you start hormones! And as Angie said you have a whole lifetime to be you.

Metta Jendar

[Guest angie]

Hey Z,

Your post opened my eyes to the way my roomie lives her life.

Now she isn't as balanced as you are by far.

But,she dresses much the way you discribe youself and your personal style.

Just because"I" am feminine and girly,does it mean that she "Has"to be also.

That's what these forums are for...to support, educate,and open our"My" eyes.

Thanks,I needed that.

Hugs,Angie

[Zufrieden]

Hi Angie:

Thanks for the compliment.

As I've said before, I'm sorry that things aren't working out so smoothly for your roommate.

Even though living with a roommate can be difficult, I can see the advantages of having someone around with the same goals.

For me there is not a big attraction to dress feminine or to do hair and makeup or to alter my voice.

For many years I've dressed in T-shirts, dress shirts or sweaters and khaki shorts. I can't see any real reason to change.

When I walk down the street, I'm happy and confident. I don't want to screw up a formula that works.

I think besides the bigger shirts and sports bras the only real accomodation I've made is to shave my face daily instead of weekly.

I've shaved or epilated my legs for years. I've been using home electrolysis on body hair on and off for years.

I've been growing my hair and fingernails out to see if I like it. I can't say that it has had a big effect on me.

It just means that I have to comb my hair before going to work. I may just go back to my 9 mm all-over haircut.

I can only grow my fingernails out on my right hand due to guitar playing.

My tentative plan was always that if I got big enough on top to make it difficult to hide without binding,

that I would just switch overnight to more form-fitting tops and bras and tell people that I'm a woman.

There's a lot of things I don't know or haven't decided yet. Most of them don't seem important to me.

Z.

[Guest Jenny]

I fully knew what you meant, I was thinking in the terms that after I go through transition. My having been physically a male would be a dead issue except for the above three reasons.

[Guest Lethalia]

Hey there, Jendar.

Would you be outing yourself if you told someone of your former self after being thought of as a woman? I think so. Absolutely. Me, I am all the way out. As far being out and then to come out again (as a transsexual)… that doesn't apply to me. Everyone assumes I was born male. I'll never "pass" so… that's the whole story. No one needs to ask anything. No one need to guess. Nothing to hide. Nothing to be discovered. I guess I'm… as out as I can get.

Way out on the edge…

Isabella Lethalia Innocenzi

.

[Guest angie]

Lethalia,

If one is comfortable with themselves.

Wether one is passable or not.

Feeling good about WHO YOU ARE,is what life is all about.

And i say,Good For You GirlFriend,Good For You.

And congratulations on what some will never find.

Comfort In Who They Are.

Big Hugs Lethalia,

Angie.

[Guest Zenda]

Kia ora Lethalia,

Angie's right again...conquering your personal comfort zone is the greatest achievement any trans or gay person could hope for. We all have our ups and downs and in many cases it's not always to do with who we are ie, our true-self. And as I said to Angie "Lethalia! you girl are so far OUT you wouldn't be able to find your closet door even with the help of the hubble-telescope!" good on ya for being OUT and ABOUT ! BE HAPPY

Metta Jendar

[Guest Lethalia]

If one is comfortable with themselves.

Wether one is passable or not.

Feeling good about WHO YOU ARE,is what life is all about.

And i say,Good For You GirlFriend,Good For You.

And congratulations on what some will never find.

Comfort In Who They Are.

Angie's right again...conquering your personal comfort zone is the greatest achievement any trans or gay person could hope for. We all have our ups and downs and in many cases it's not always to do with who we are ie, our true-self. ...good on ya for being OUT and ABOUT ! BE HAPPY

Hey there, Angie. Hey there, Jendar. OwUB?

Thank you so much. Ya'll are so sweet. It is true that I am entirely comfortable with the real life world. There is a strange safety in never being able to pass: One never has to worry about being made or sussed out. Everything is out in the open. There is no hiding, so there is no fear. A piece of pie… easy as cake. I have been racking my brains trying to figure out how I can come out again… some more. Drawing a blank here. Nothing. Is that all there is? I should write a song abou… oh… wait. Nevermind. I still love that song.

And as I said to Angie "Lethalia! you girl are so far OUT you wouldn't be able to find your closet door even with the help of the hubble-telescope!"

Hahaha. That it too funny. I love it. I am not entirely sure I ever had a closet in which to put my gender. Wow, my poor gender never had a closet. And that's sad… in a dumbified kind of way. I could write a story about it. I think I will. Be sure to look for it on the Dressed Sellers List.

Out there in La-La Land……

Isabella Lethalia Innocenzi

[Guest Zenda]

Kia ora Lethalia,

You are right being out and nothing to hide or lose-is truly a luxury for some- no unwanted baggage etc etc...Also where Z's at is equally good- no suicidal thoughts about her gender identity-no fuss if not being able to have surgery-a gender contentment level many in this forum crave...

A few years back during my 'affirming' time I was driving through the city centre [this was around lunchtime]and happened to be stopped at the lights when I spied a young woman smartly dressed sitting by herself on the curb side crying...now you know we[most trans-people] have highly developed 'gen-dar' I could see this person was trans even though she was quite petite with long blond hair-verrrrrrrrrry passable to non trans eyes. Call it intuition but I could sense her problem was insecurity-lacking self esteem...not realising she was already passing in her affirmed gender she was way tooooo self conscious. Now call it fate but at the HRC transgender inquiry meeting I attended earlier this year..I'm sure I saw her there and if it was her she had really got her act together...she must have ironed out the bumps in the road.

Even some verrrrry passable trans-people get extremely depressed at times-that old black dog[depression] keeps snapping at their heels. Being deep stealth can at times be like a pressure cooker full of loneliness...waiting to let off steam.

Metta Jendar

[Guest angie]

I have something very important to add to this thread.

Girls,there are a million sites out there in the void.

Some women who have gone through the change...Forget Their Roots.

Jendar,hit the nail on the head.We All Fight Depression to one extent or another.

DO NOT GO TO THOSE SITES!!!!!!!

They will only make the path you are on that much more difficult.

I do not know who the author is...and i could care less.

Some of what she says is the truth.

But like a bunch out there,she questions your passabilty verus your need to be the real you.

AND...she promotes STEALTH.And moving consantly.WHAT???????

I have lived in the same neighborhood for five years.

There are some who knew me as my old self,and they know me as my real self.

Moving all the time will keep you a stranger...Forget that.

Interacting with folks you know will get them used to you.And conversly, you ready for the real world.

Helping you become comfortable with yourself and presenting daily.

As my friend Helen a GG said,whom has known me the full time.

"Angie,when i met you you were a man.Now i can see your woman.And that is how i think of you,as a woman."You will never get that by moving your whole life.No roots.

One day,i will move to a new city.But for now,home is where my heart is.And I Need That.

Hugs,

Angie.

[Guest Lethalia]

Hey there, Jendar. Hey there, Angie. OwU2B?

Speaking to others, I would like to say the being so out is a luxury for me. Of this, I am always aware. Knowing I will never be able to afford G.R.S. and/or F.F.S. leaves me fewer options. This is both unfortunate and fortunate. It is unfortunate because I will always feel like some mythical monster making it difficult to look at myself. It is fortunate because with fewer options, there are fewer decisions… and the path becomes a little clearer. I am on an unattractive, poorly equipped ship that takes in water. And that ship has very nearly sunk more than just a few times. My choices are limited: Do what I can, or sink. My instinct for survival is strong… as it is for all of us. If it were not, we would simply fall and cease to be each time our spirits and/or hearts were broken. And we may cry, but this too is survival. In the world, there a great deal many things about which one can be afraid or depressed. I personally battle my own fears and depression in a lifetime full-on war that often leaves me feeling more wrecked than whole. Wrecked is not fun. So I am thinking the fewer things there are to be afraid or depressed about, the better. I would never add hiding to the list.

I have seen some of these sites which Angie mentioned. And I always wonder if the persons running those sites have lost their minds. I will admit, I do get a little crazy. But when it comes to dealing with the public, I find it is far easier to meet them dead on and let them know what's what than to hide. I am not giving advice. I am just saying, that for me, it is easier. To me, centering my entire being on whether I can pass of not, misses the point of who I am. To question my ability to pass versus my need to be the real me seems a serious misdirection in thinking. Think of a heterosexual cisgender man who does not seem so manly to the world. Should he then try to force himself to wear dresses and desire men? It is obvious that such is a silly conclusion.

To promote absolute stealth seems emotionally defeating… in effect, to go back into hiding. Think of a game of hide and seek. It may be fun to hide in the closet for a little while… but was I really planning on living there? I would be thinking I should have at least brought a book and a candy bar... not to mention a flashlight and the rest of the world. To keep moving constantly just to maintain stealth is, to me, nothing short of crazy. And to promote such seems to be promoting fear. I am thinking that living in fear does not sound like fun. Personally, I find it a little upsetting that someone would treat being transgender as if it were something to hide… something of which to be ashamed. And I find it offensive that they would, in effect, advise others to hide. Wishing to be pretty, I get. Wishing to hide, I don't get. I understand there are some girls who might want to cover their roots… uh, so to speak. Okay, I lost my train of thought with that one.

Further, without body modification, it is not as if one cannot change their mind. So the world sees you waffle… so what? I realize that for others, there are such considerations as family and friends. Not for me. My life, my body, my gender, my sexuality, all that I am, is mine… no one else's. To have the world dictate to me, that which I will be and not be, is a violation beyond compare. And this comes from the tall skinny girl with brittle bones, who could not pass, in a day and age that demanded conformity. Those days are over. We have come too far to be stuffed back into a closet. Even if I were ever able to pass, I would never hide or live in complete stealth. But that's just me. Personally, the world can just bite my butt and have a nice day.

I apologize if my post was too strongly stated… I did try to soften the tone. Believe it or not, I am one of the gentler and less aggressive one's in my family. Perhaps it would be better to reread some of the gentler and more encouraging posts on the subject. We are all different people with different needs and feelings, brought together by something very special. So… don't mind the mythical creature, taloned and fanged, out and about in the world… she's just making the world accept that which they would not, many years ago. OXO.

Walking and Talking…

Isabella Lethalia Innocenzi

.

[Guest angie]

Isabella Lethalia Innocenzi.

There was or is nothing someone reading this thread could not understand.

What you said,i had to clap my hands any exclaim...YES!

Well said and well presented.

Ladies,Be True To Yourself.

Don't Let Anyone Tell you How Or How To life The Only Life You Have.

BE HAPPY.

Angie.

[Guest angie]

Check this out........A Man Just Came On To Me!

I was standing at the counter paying and he just started a pickup line.

"Are you part indian...You sure are pretty...Blah Blah Blah...

My friend behind the counter Victor knows me well.

And he played along not outing me once....Gooood Boy.

I got a real kick out of it...It's the first time this has happened to me.

Just weekend before last.....Victor and his coworker Jason....Were there together.

And....They made the mistake of calling me a (sir man he)

And This Girls Undies did Get In An Uproar.

"I Am Not A Man...I Am A Transwoman In Transition....Do Not Call Me A Man A Sir Or A He Anymore!"

"You Can Address Me As M'am Or Her Or She...But Definently NOT As A Man...Thank You Gentlemen."

And that is why he Victor and Jason Address me in the proper gender or Angie always.

As he played along i reached over and patted his arm as a way of saying thanks Vic.

Makes me smile still...Funny funny funny.

Hugs Sisters And A Big Ol Grin Too,

Angie.

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora Angie... It feels good don't it...Or to put a downer on it ..NOW YOU KNOW WHAT OTHER WOMEN FEEL LIKE BEING HASSLED BY MEN ALL THE TIME...But don't you just love it !!!

I remember the first time feeling on top of the world when a handsome Samoan guy I had never met before asked me if I wanted to have coffee with him...I was just getting into my old beat up car at the time he had just got out of a flash BMW...I declined his offer but it's the thought that counts...and mine lasted for days.. I remember thinking...Flattery WILL get you everywhere.

Metta Jendar

[Guest Madi]

Kia Ora Angie... It feels good don't it...Or to put a downer on it ..NOW YOU KNOW WHAT OTHER WOMEN FEEL LIKE BEING HASSLED BY MEN ALL THE TIME...But don't you just love it !!!

I remember the first time feeling on top of the world when a handsome Samoan guy I had never met before asked me if I wanted to have coffee with him...I was just getting into my old beat up car at the time he had just got out of a flash BMW...I declined his offer but it's the thought that counts...and mine lasted for days.. I remember thinking...Flattery WILL get you everywhere.

Metta Jendar

I hope you guys run into eachother again, reminds me of a chick flick...

What girl doesn't like a good Chick flick???

Madi =]

[Guest lei9276]

hi to jendar, angie, lethalia, madi, and everyone else on this thread!

i am so blown away by how solid you all are! lethalia - your posts are never too long! everybody is so inspiring.

i went through a period of being overly conscious of whether i was passing or not. but i am (SLOWLY) coming to the point of being able to be comfortable in being transgendered, vs not male - i present 24-7 to the best of my ability as female, because that is how i want to present, but if ever questioned i think i would either say that i am trans, or else something politely to the effect of 'none of your damned business!' i don't think i every want to be mistaken as male again in my life - it still happens - and i can feel my proverbial thong getting into that proverbial uproar, but i hope to someday be comfortable enough to be able to accept and deal with that with grace and dignity. so being out being totally uprfront about who and what you are - i guess i'm only halfway there.

aloha

lei

[Guest angie]

Welcome Sister,

It takes time to get real comfortable in your new skin and presentation.

But when you do....It makes you feel Sooooooooo warm and good.

One day... it will just happen...and you wont even be aware when it does.

You'll just realise"hey! i'm acting like myself"and (Poof) you are there.Comfortable.

Because you aren't thinking about it.

Hugs And Welcome To The Playground,

Angie.

[Guest angie]

I thought about putting this on my blog only...Then,not as many will see it as is possible here on the forums.

Being Out...What Does It Mean To Me Seven Months Later?

Unbelieveable comfort and acceptance,finding peace within myself,enjoying each and everyday.

Smiling at just getting to be(me).The feeling of going in public not concerned about if i will pass or be made.The thrill of walking in my high heels,hearing them clicking,the lovely smell of my perfume,and just the way i feel so gosh dang womanly.The joy of my confidence growing...My family coming to terms and accepting me as who i truly am...Reconnecting with people i love so very dearly and am getting a second opportunity for them and i to get to know each other...The friends i am making as Angie that respect and love me as a woman...The wonderful feeling of rightness that has not diminished even the tiniest bit...Loving my emotions,and laughing at myself for them at times,surprised by the tears that arrive unannounced...Waking up and just getting dressed,and not even think about

(man ware).The joy of putting on my face...Chosing my outfit for the day...

Just Being A Girl Everyday For The Rest Of My Life?

Pure Unadulterated Joy.

Love,Angie.