Body rebelling against transition, or…normal?

[Desert Fox]

I began taking estradiol almost six months ago, starting at a low dose and stepping it up every few months per my endocrinologist. I’m taking the oral tablets sublingually and the plan was to switch to injections after 6 months, as I am almost 50 years old and am aware of the risks of oral estrogen. I do not take any testosterone blockers or progesterone currently.
 

I have experienced the expected changes in my body, which have been mostly positive and wonderful. My estradiol level increased and testosterone level decreased…until my most recent test when testosterone had gone up again and my estrone was extremely high (estradiol level still fairly low though). My doctor is a bit puzzled at this but it seems my body is converting the estrogen into estrone mostly, and high estrone, I’ve read, can be a risk factor for blood clots. I’ve not wanted to try T-blockers due to side effects and I’ve probably lost too much natural hair to reverse that anyway now, plus being bigender, I don’t have a particular desire to drastically drop the testosterone. I didn’t expect a rebound effect though.

 

Am just wondering if anyone has experienced a similar thing or know why it may be occurring. I do know that for me, many medications do not work as expected, I tend to get side effects with little or no benefit, so I generally try to avoid drugs as much as possible. Maybe switching to injections is what needs to happen now, but I’m hedging as I don’t feel ready for that yet.

[VickySGV]

The important thing is to be trusting your Endocrinologist in this and doing the lab work.  The second most important thing is NOT to read too much into what is happening this early in the game, you can go crazy with it.  A "puzzled doctor will be doing research if they are any good.  You could find yourself going in for some added tests for a few other things. 

 

A point that was made to me is that it is not the "E" level in your body that is important as the stuff that is actually being put to work by your hormone receptor cells throughout your body.  Your body also has its own natural E supply just as you had a T supply (all men and women do) so that is something the Endo needs to figure out.  We cannot discuss dosages here, but those are factors people forget. It could also be that if you have medications doing weird things that there could be a genetic issue involved that you might ask about.  We discovered one of those for me, and it is fun to know but does not really change anything about my treatment.  My T receptor cells are somewhat screwy with some extra bits on their DNA which made it easier for the E to go to work on me. 

 

[Charlize]

Vicky is right on here.  These issues are best handled by you and your endocrinologist.  I have only used topical forms of E due to existing cardio vascular disease.  I never had major issues with a T blocker but after several years i chose to get an orchiectomy.  Only while 6 months may seem a great deal of time your doctor may have to experiment with dosage and medication to get to a stable and desirable result.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

[Jani]

At this time my doctor focuses on how I feel rather than numbers alone.  Early on it was; am I seeing change, do I have any negative feedback, etc.  I've never had high "E numbers" but I trust my physician and look at him as the Pro here as he's seen a multitude of patients.  Follow your doctors orders and don't worry about the outcome.  Aside from medication, our genetics play a huge role in how we end up.

 

Hugs, Jani

[Guest]

I have been on the estradiol validate injections since the beginning. If you research the risk profiles you will see a reduced risk of venous thromboembolism, and there is more predictable absorption of the medication. You can learn to do your injections rather painlessly. Talk it over with your physician or nurse practitioner. I have been very happy with my progress with the injections. There are all sorts of ways to get from point A to point B. Good luck!

[Guest]

On 1/28/2022 at 10:44 PM, Desert Fox said:

Am just wondering if anyone has experienced a similar thing or know why it may be occurring. 

I'm currently experiencing a similar thing. I believe I've been taking the same sublingual estradiol tablets as you, but in addition to spironolactone, (testosterone blocker), for one year, one week and two days. My testosterone levels were still too high for my provider though, so we doubled the dosage of the blocker. It improved a bit, but was still too high, so as soon as I quit smoking, we doubled the dose of the estradiol to see if that has an effect. ...Not smoking should also help; I've cut back a ton ever since starting HRT as I know it can be risky. Also making sure to get out and run at least every other day. 

But yeah...definitely relate with feeling like my body might be rebelling against transition; been considering getting an orichiectomy, or just going through with a full SRS, then I shouldn't need any blockers. Planning on going on progesterone as well once my breasts are more developed. 

[Guest]

While the finasteride does reduce the dihydrotestosterone (DHT), it may actually increase overall testosterone levels. dutasteride can do the same thing. These drugs reduce the amount of DHT and thus improved scalp hair growth and the size of the prostate. DHT is made from testosterone by a chemical reaction within the body. These drugs reduce the DHT production, but this means there is more testosterone floating around. There are some issues with both finasteride and dutasteride. I was on dutasteride for about 10 days and stopped. You may want to talk with an endocrinologist who had had good success with transgender MTF regimens. Good luck.

Sincerely
Katie

[Nicole M]

On 1/29/2022 at 1:19 AM, VickySGV said:

We cannot discuss dosages here...

Hi Vicky, I was wondering, since you mentioned it, if there is a prohibition on this site of discussing dosages of medication? If so, it does make sense, as any prescription medicine should only be taken under the care of a doctor or ARNP. Self-medicating can be very hazardous.

 

This is an interesting topic, and lots of good info has been shared. I have both an endocrinologist ARPN and an ARNP at the LGBT clinic where I have been prescribed dutasteride and estradiol. I see both of them frequently. It's only been about a week and a half that I've taken those, and the only effect I've noticed so far is my memory seems to be not working so good, but I've been running with little sleep this week too, so that might be the cause.

 

Blessings to all,

Sandy

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Sandy Morgan said:

Hi Vicky, I was wondering, since you mentioned it, if there is a prohibition on this site of discussing dosages of medication? If so, it does make sense, as any prescription medicine should only be taken under the care of a doctor or ARNP. Self-medicating can be very hazardous.

 

Unfortunately it is against the rules to discuss dosages. Personally, I don't understand the rule, as anybody stupid enough to base their medication decisions on what some stranger on the internet is doing instead of what a qualified professional suggests, probably has it coming lol. But I'm kinda mean. A nice person probably wouldn't think like that, and they might even decide to take it upon themselves to try to protect people from their own stupidity by making some kinda rule.

Me? I say let Darwinism take it's proper course! 🤣😈

[Nicole M]

1 hour ago, Nora Michels said:

 

Unfortunately it is against the rules to discuss dosages. Personally, I don't understand the rule, as anybody stupid enough to base their medication decisions on what some stranger on the internet is doing instead of what a qualified professional suggests, probably has it coming lol. But I'm kinda mean. A nice person probably wouldn't think like that, and they might even decide to take it upon themselves to try to protect people from their own stupidity by making some kinda rule.

Me? I say let Darwinism take it's proper course! 🤣😈

I'm with you, Nora, just not for the same reason. I'm just not for saving people from themselves. I guess that's the libertarian in me. 😀 For example, if I went out and somehow got spironolactone and took it without a prescription, my serum sodium level could go too low, as it's slightly low already, and I'm sure that wouldn't be good, but it would be on me to research medication and not just do things blindly, but also be wise enough to go get medical help, as I have done recently. I'm very glad I went to a clinic and have both the ARNP there plus an ARNP endocrinologist to monitor and help me along the way. It's the best way to go, and more available now than ever before, at least in my area.

[VickySGV]

4 hours ago, Nora Michels said:

I don't understand the rule, as anybody stupid enough to base their medication decisions on what some stranger on the internet is doing instead of what a qualified professional suggests, probably has it coming lol.

@Sandy Morgan  The rule about not discussing dosages is I admit from the dim ages of the past when I first came onto the site in 2011.  Laura, who founded the site was a self admitted abuser of both gray market (bought without prescription in her name) and Herbal health supplements which at the time the site was founded in the early 2K years were the most available forms of HRT to some very troubled Trans People who could not access the legitimate medical care that we can today.  As a result, the internet of the time was the only place they could get information on hormone dosages since they were desperate to have them, since many were suicidal and had no place to turn.  Laura herself developed many of the harmful effects including heart, lung and brain issues with a few more in the mix. She turned this site over to the almost current ownership about 5 years ago.  Those of us on the Admin staff were around then and we saw the desperate reaching for any way to relieve the anxiety of GD, including a few of us on staff who also abused ethanol when we could not get access to prescribed hormones.  Many young people whose families are not accepting and refuse to give them the necessary medical support are also desperate enough to find ways to get them without medical supervision.   HRT is a tricky thing, I myself have a blood clot from 7 years ago still embedded in a vein in my upper right leg, we don't think HRT caused it, but that is something they do.  Please be kind to our siblings who are desperate for solutions to their Gender Dysphoria it is not stupidity all by itself, it is lack of support and lack of available care.  PS, I tried one "vitamin" made from spoiled cow udders that was terrible and it did not reduce my GD, just my bank account. 

[Nicole M]

28 minutes ago, VickySGV said:

@Sandy Morgan  The rule about not discussing dosages is I admit from the dim ages of the past when I first came onto the site in 2011.  Laura, who founded the site was a self admitted abuser of both gray market (bought without prescription in her name) and Herbal health supplements which at the time the site was founded in the early 2K years were the most available forms of HRT to some very troubled Trans People who could not access the legitimate medical care that we can today.  As a result, the internet of the time was the only place they could get information on hormone dosages since they were desperate to have them, since many were suicidal and had no place to turn.  Laura herself developed many of the harmful effects including heart, lung and brain issues with a few more in the mix. She turned this site over to the almost current ownership about 5 years ago.  Those of us on the Admin staff were around then and we saw the desperate reaching for any way to relieve the anxiety of GD, including a few of us on staff who also abused ethanol when we could not get access to prescribed hormones.  Many young people whose families are not accepting and refuse to give them the necessary medical support are also desperate enough to find ways to get them without medical supervision.   HRT is a tricky thing, I myself have a blood clot from 7 years ago still embedded in a vein in my upper right leg, we don't think HRT caused it, but that is something they do.  Please be kind to our siblings who are desperate for solutions to their Gender Dysphoria it is not stupidity all by itself, it is lack of support and lack of available care.  PS, I tried one "vitamin" made from spoiled cow udders that was terrible and it did not reduce my GD, just my bank account. 

Thanks for your explanation, Vicky. I was where you described Laura for some time (when I was wanting feminization, but was too frightened to go get medical help, and that is assuming I could have found any at the time). This was on and off over the years until quite recently, when I availed myself of legitimate help. Funny thing about that was that I had a hard time telling the person over the phone at the LGBT clinic that I wanted to be seen for trans issues. It was hard to take that step, even though it's been great ever since. Thanks for helping us understand the way things were and still are to some degree now (depending on where in the world folks like us live).

 

Sandy 

[stveee]

@VickySGV thanks for a great explanation and flashback for me to a little more than 20 years ago....on WebTV, jobless, poor, overwhelmed with the possibility I might be trans, basically being my own test pilot...not that long ago, really. Knowing nothing about transition.

My then wife gave me her birth control pills which probably did nothing but raise my T. I am certain I would have probably gotten into chewing on monkey brains if it was on the black market those days.... I was young, confused, desperate, a little careless, depressed, and self-medicating. It hurt to be told by a doctor I didn't exist or by an older trans woman at a support group that I wasn't trans, that I didn't belong there. So I kind of felt like I tried the "establishment" and it was an impenetrable fortress so went DIY, and eventually back in the closet.

   

[Guest]

7 hours ago, VickySGV said:

@Sandy Morgan  The rule about not discussing dosages is I admit from the dim ages of the past when I first came onto the site in 2011.  Laura, who founded the site was a self admitted abuser of both gray market (bought without prescription in her name) and Herbal health supplements which at the time the site was founded in the early 2K years were the most available forms of HRT to some very troubled Trans People who could not access the legitimate medical care that we can today.  As a result, the internet of the time was the only place they could get information on hormone dosages since they were desperate to have them, since many were suicidal and had no place to turn.  Laura herself developed many of the harmful effects including heart, lung and brain issues with a few more in the mix. She turned this site over to the almost current ownership about 5 years ago.  Those of us on the Admin staff were around then and we saw the desperate reaching for any way to relieve the anxiety of GD, including a few of us on staff who also abused ethanol when we could not get access to prescribed hormones.  Many young people whose families are not accepting and refuse to give them the necessary medical support are also desperate enough to find ways to get them without medical supervision.   HRT is a tricky thing, I myself have a blood clot from 7 years ago still embedded in a vein in my upper right leg, we don't think HRT caused it, but that is something they do.  Please be kind to our siblings who are desperate for solutions to their Gender Dysphoria it is not stupidity all by itself, it is lack of support and lack of available care.  PS, I tried one "vitamin" made from spoiled cow udders that was terrible and it did not reduce my GD, just my bank account. 

I can attest to that time 20 years ago having ordered estradiol and herbal supplements through shady internet sites. I was unaware of the side effects at that time and feel lucky that I escaped that era unscathed.

[Desert Fox]

Thanks for the feedback. I am not sure why exactly my T is rebounding, but it is and quite drastically so, and it's rather upsetting. It is clear that if I continue estradiol I will need to learn how to do injections pretty soon to avoid the continued conversion of E2 to E1 (estrone) that I'm experiencing from the pill form, and the increased risk of blood clots.

 

Indeed, things have come a long way. When I first investigated this a few decades ago because I thought I might be trans....I found the obstacles to getting HRT, finding someone to prescribe it, and insurance coverage, seemed insurmountable and so I gave up and put it out of my mind. The thought of DIY HRT had never even crossed my mind....but I can certainly understand why someone would go that route then. Even now, for some people and those in some areas of the world DIY HRT may be the only practical choice, and I hope that any who do so either by choice or need, are able and willing to do the significant research needed to make it safer for themselves.

[Guest]

On 2/12/2022 at 7:47 PM, Sandy Morgan said:

I'm with you, Nora, just not for the same reason. I'm just not for saving people from themselves. I guess that's the libertarian in me. 😀 For example, if I went out and somehow got spironolactone and took it without a prescription, my serum sodium level could go too low, as it's slightly low already, and I'm sure that wouldn't be good, but it would be on me to research medication and not just do things blindly, but also be wise enough to go get medical help, as I have done recently. I'm very glad I went to a clinic and have both the ARNP there plus an ARNP endocrinologist to monitor and help me along the way. It's the best way to go, and more available now than ever before, at least in my area.

A fellow Libertarian sister! 🤩🤗🤭

And seems we're also in similar situations regarding HRT; I'm also seeing an ARNP at a women's health clinic...I don't really like that they do abortions there, but it wasn't a deal-breaker, especially considering they won't perform any abortions beyond 11 weeks. ...I'm pro-life AND pro-choice lol: I don't like it, but outlawing it would only make things worse. It's like drugs and guns. Outlaw them, and only outlaws will have the drugs and guns. Same principle at work during the Prohibition Era in the 1920's lol. Sigh...anyway...I got off topic lol. Carry on! 😅

[Guest]

On 2/12/2022 at 11:33 PM, VickySGV said:

Please be kind to our siblings who are desperate for solutions to their Gender Dysphoria it is not stupidity all by itself, it is lack of support and lack of available care.

I'm kinda ornery in general as a defense mechanism. Nothing personal. 

Fortunately, by and large, we live in a world where qualified support and care is available. For the ones whom support and care is not available, they'll probably just turn to the dark-web instead to maybe find a street-level dealer who they can hopefully trust, because if any of them asked about it on here, it'd probably violate one of the thirty-something rules and regulations lol. Kinda sad when ya think about it. 🥺

[Guest]

Edit: Twenty-something lol. I was exaggerating ever-so-slightly lol. 🤭

[MaryEllen]

Quote

Edit: Twenty-something lol. I was exaggerating ever-so-slightly lol. 

 

There are 27 community Terms and Conditions to be exact. Rules that were put in place to keep this site a safe and friendly environment. We expect them to be strictly adhered to. Any blatant infractions to any of these rules will result in disciplinary actions. As I've said, we run a safe site here and we fully intend to keep it that way.

 

MaryEllen

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, MaryEllen said:

 

There are 27 community Terms and Conditions to be exact. Rules that were put in place to keep this site a safe and friendly environment. We expect them to be strictly adhered to. Any blatant infractions to any of these rules will result in disciplinary actions. As I've said, we run a safe site here and we fully intend to keep it that way.

 

MaryEllen

 

 

 

 

Roger dodger! 😊

[Charlize]

On 2/16/2022 at 6:26 AM, Nora Michels said:

Fortunately, by and large, we live in a world where qualified support and care is available. For the ones whom support and care is not available, they'll probably just turn to the dark-web instead to maybe find a street-level dealer who they can hopefully trust, because if any of them asked about it on here, it'd probably violate one of the thirty-something rules and regulations lol. Kinda sad when ya think about it. 🥺

It is certainly possible that some may go to the "dark-web".  At the same time the response they receive here about treatment may help them do that a least knowing they risks.  Hopefully they will then look for professional help which can actually be found quite often at a low cost.  The rules here're developed over time by folks who have managed tom provide a safe platform for quite some time.  One of our "rules" is that topics should not be hijacked.  This conversation has little to do with the topic.  The rebelling mentioned in the title isn't about the rules!  Please stay on topic.

 

Charlize

[Guest]

22 hours ago, Charlize said:

It is certainly possible that some may go to the "dark-web".  At the same time the response they receive here about treatment may help them do that a least knowing they risks.  Hopefully they will then look for professional help which can actually be found quite often at a low cost.  The rules here're developed over time by folks who have managed tom provide a safe platform for quite some time.  One of our "rules" is that topics should not be hijacked.  This conversation has little to do with the topic.  The rebelling mentioned in the title isn't about the rules!  Please stay on topic.

 

Charlize

Already stopped talking about it. 👍

[Desert Fox]

To bring this back around to the original topic, I have learned a little about what's going on.

Dr. Will Powers describes it in one of his videos, linked below. I am not a patient of his nor do I endorse what he says or even follow his protocol, but I think he is a very good speaker and has some useful information. From my research on him, it seems he genuinely is interested in learning about and helping TG individuals get the best results in their transition.

 

What I have found, at least in my case, is that sublingual estradiol indeed helped nicely even as low-dose monotherapy in the first year of taking it, however to avoid the blood clot risk I really need to switch to injections....or stop entirely. And I haven't decided what I will do yet. My main concern of continuing estrogen are health risks but again stopping it will likely make the dysphoria and the unwanted male hormonal influence return with a vengeance and I don't want that.

 

 

 

[Heather Nicole]

@Desert Fox That's a fascinating video, thanks for sharing it!