How did you find an affirming church, or how would you seek one?

[Vidanjali]

I'd be grateful if you would please share any resource or directory you used to find an LGBTQ+ affirming Christian church. If you found a church by way of some form of meaningful outreach, would you please describe it? If you learned of a church by word of mouth, any idea how to spread the news to others? Any other insight is appreciated. 

 

Here's why I'm asking:

 

The church where I sing is a United Methodist Church (UMC). In case you hadn't heard, the UMC is undergoing a schism over LGBTQ+ inclusion. My church leadership came out as inclusive allies, but once this was declared by the pastor, half the congregation left (after causing some mischief). 

 

Obviously, inclusion is personally important to me. I'm also serving on the church "Reconciling Ministry" which is a UMC allyship mission. Therefore, I am working on compiling resources, directories, and outreach opportunities to let the queer community know were here, we see you, and we love you. We plan to participate in Pride events in June, but in the meantime we need to proactively cultivate relationships. 

 

If it helps you to know, the church is in Fort Lauderdale, FL. 

 

Thanks! 

V

[VickySGV]

Episcopal Churches and Evangelical Lutheran Churches of America both have LGBTQ acceptance in their National church laws.  In my Episcopal Church Diocese our Bishop has an advisory commission on LGBTQIA Ministry which I am actually a member of.  This resource is one some friends have used

 

https://www.believeoutloud.com/resources/find-a-church/

 

[Marcie Jensen]

The Presbyterian Church, USA (PCUSA) General Assembly in 2018 adopted an LGBTQ+ inclusion policy similar to those of the Episcopal and Evangelical Lutheran Churches. That said, much depends on the views of the elders of a particular congregation and how they view inclusion. Some are very supportive and others are not.

[Vidanjali]

7 hours ago, VickySGV said:

Episcopal Churches and Evangelical Lutheran Churches of America both have LGBTQ acceptance in their National church laws.  In my Episcopal Church Diocese our Bishop has an advisory commission on LGBTQIA Ministry which I am actually a member of.  This resource is one some friends have used

 

https://www.believeoutloud.com/resources/find-a-church/

 

 

Thanks, @VickySGV ! This is the sort of directory I'm looking for. 

[SaraB]

My church is a Mennonite of the Atlantic Coast Conference and they support/affirm. Even fly the colors outside the door. My parent's church is Mennonite of the Lancaster conference, which tows the old line. 20 miles apart, worlds apart.

[Vidanjali]

That's wonderful that you are affirmed and supported by your church, @SaraB ☺️

[SaraB]

There is an increasing movement in some circles, but it is met with backlash. Many churches around here broke with thier conferences or denominations because they didn't want to accept the new normal.

[Marcie Jensen]

9 hours ago, SaraB said:

There is an increasing movement in some circles, but it is met with backlash. Many churches around here broke with thier conferences or denominations because they didn't want to accept the new normal.

This has been an ongoing issue with most denominations for a while now--the breaking up part, I mean. Trans issues are just the latest dividing issue. In fact, this was one of the subjects discussed in my master's thesis during seminary back in 2006. It impacts everything from funding to doctrine to ordination to catechizes and beyond. Worse, it divides the church as a whole, which is simply bad; particularly today. 

That's why it's important to visit a particular church, and discuss their views on trans people with the pastor before committing. This is also an unfortunate aspect of the modern church.

Sorry, I didn't mean to pontificate. This issue is especially close to my heart.

[SaraB]

As a child of missionaries, I do consider it a key topic too. Also wieghty on my mind is preparing for when I have to reveal to parents. My father is an engineer and a church teacher, so he likes a good debate. It however has to be a GOOD debate.

[Marcie Jensen]

1 minute ago, SaraB said:

As a child of missionaries, I do consider it a key topic too. Also wieghty on my mind is preparing for when I have to reveal to parents. My father is an engineer and a church teacher, so he likes a good debate. It however has to be a GOOD debate.

I wish you luck in your impending debate with your father, Sara. I would love to be the proverbial fly on the wall for that event! Depending on your particular denomination, it could get really intense. Personally, as a Calvinist, I can always fall back on Sola Scriptura--Scripture Alone--and as nowhere in the Bible is transgenderism mentioned, it allows me to get past dogma and church tradition. (And I realize that some people regard the eunuchs mentioned in both the Old and New Testaments as transgendered people, but I believe this to be an error in interpretation for two sound reasons. First, in Hebrew and Aramaic, a eunich was simply a person in high civil authority. And, second, in Greek, it meant a castrated male who typically guarded the hareem. Again, Sola Scriptura...)

[SaraB]

The trans supporting(or neutralizing) aspects of debate are still a bit of a new topic to me, so I am very much gathering phase now. Hopefully being in this church will give me good stuff to go on. Been watching "trans and Christian" on youtube a while too. A couple days ago I dusted off my facebook login to see where my college and previous friends were and it made me sigh. Most of them are still posting picturequotes about how the woke-trans-ideology this and that. Recently dropping the bomb of getting divorced was a big enough one. Granted she turned away from the church for the most part, so now I am more free to be involved.

One thing that people have brought up in conversation in the past is the old testament scripturing that says a "man shall not wear what pertains to a woman" Which is of course so contextual to culture since women wear sometimes more masculine clothing than men do nowdays.

[Vidanjali]

2 hours ago, SaraB said:

As a child of missionaries, I do consider it a key topic too. Also wieghty on my mind is preparing for when I have to reveal to parents. My father is an engineer and a church teacher, so he likes a good debate. It however has to be a GOOD debate.

 

Just curious - what exactly do you anticipate having to debate with your father? That your identity is genuine? That the church should embrace queer inclusion practices? 

 

I think debates over queer apologetics vs established doctrine usually wind up as battles of attrition which usually result in both sides with heels dug further in the ground, feeling either more threatened and defensive or self-righteous than before. 

 

The pastor at my church, when elaborating on why he believes in inclusivity, stated that he did not wish to engage in scriptural dueling to defend his position. He said what's truest is what the Spirit tells him which is (I'm paraphrasing) that we are all children of God, part of God's infinite creation, that we are all deserving of God's Love, and therfore we must love one another without exception, condition or judgment. 

 

Personally, I do not think scripture should be taken literally. I think that severely limits its import and the potentiality of its power.

[Marcie Jensen]

2 hours ago, SaraB said:

One thing that people have brought up in conversation in the past is the old testament scripturing that says a "man shall not wear what pertains to a woman" Which is of course so contextual to culture since women wear sometimes more masculine clothing than men do nowdays.

This particular quote comes from Deuteronomy 22:6. The preceding verse refers to helping out if you see a neighbor's donkey fallen by the road, and the following verse refers to picking up a bird's nest and replacing a tree if you see it fallen. This is one of the many laws (over 280) in Deuteronomy that as Christians we are not required to keep. In Matthew 5:17, Jesus proclaims he has come to fulfill the law. There are a number of websites that exegete this in regard to Mosaic law; suffice it to say that we are not bound by Mosaic law.

Additionally, there are no clothing requirements/restrictions in Christianity, unlike in Judaism which still has them--the most common example of which is the Yarmulke. So, citing Deuteronomy isn't exactly germane as I interpret Scripture. But, I could be wrong...

[VickySGV]

6 hours ago, SaraB said:

"man shall not wear what pertains to a woman"

More recently it has been found that the first ancient Hebrew word in Deuteronomy 22:5 , now translated as woman is not the usual word meaning a female and is different from other more common words for Woman found elsewhere in the Hebrew Scripture.  The word used is actually non gendered for a "less able" person which would include disabled or very old men, and says they are not to wear soldiers armor or be placed in a battle where they will certainly be killed.  As for the men wearing women's "things", and keeping the spirit of the exegetical passages around it, that would be pretending they were unable to help their neighbors, or they were raiding their wives' (intentionally plural there) garments used while the woman was ritually unclean each month during her period, and thus making the man ritually unclean as well.  If you were a Levite, that meant time off without pay from his Priestly Duties. 

[Vidanjali]

2 hours ago, VickySGV said:

More recently it has been found that the first ancient Hebrew word in Deuteronomy 22:5 , now translated as woman is...

 

actually non gendered for a "less able" person which would include disabled or very old men, and says they are not to wear soldiers armor or be placed in a battle where they will certainly be killed.  

 

This makes me think of Sri Bhagavad Gita 18:47 in which Lord Krishna says it is better to do one's own dharma (follow one's own path) even imperfectly than it is to do someone else's. I.e. do not "put on the clothes" of one who is less than your true Self (that which in Truth is united with the Lord). Sri Krishna also teaches that action performed for the sake of action itself or for the satisfaction of desire leads one from death to death - this is like putting on the armor to fight a useless battle against one's true nature. 

 

Truth is one; it is spoken of in many ways. Praise God. 

[Marcie Jensen]

22 hours ago, VickySGV said:

More recently it has been found that the first ancient Hebrew word in Deuteronomy 22:5 , now translated as woman is not the usual word meaning a female and is different from other more common words for Woman found elsewhere in the Hebrew Scripture.  The word used is actually non gendered for a "less able" person which would include disabled or very old men, and says they are not to wear soldiers armor or be placed in a battle where they will certainly be killed.  As for the men wearing women's "things", and keeping the spirit of the exegetical passages around it, that would be pretending they were unable to help their neighbors, or they were raiding their wives' (intentionally plural there) garments used while the woman was ritually unclean each month during her period, and thus making the man ritually unclean as well.  If you were a Levite, that meant time off without pay from his Priestly Duties. 

OMG!! I'd forgotten that. (Just goes to show what happens when you don't actively use a language--Hebrew--in over16 years...

Yes, the word used in the Hebrew text of Deuteronomy is different from the rest of Hebrew Scripture.  And as for the Levites, your point is very well taken. Strict adherence to the Law of Moses was a hallmark of the Levites and later on the Pharisees. It's also virtually impossible to conform to 100% of the time.  Also true are your points about old men being placed in the line of battle, especially during the bronze age when most combat was hand to hand. Makes sense in the context of the text and the times. It also underscores one of the many points of my old Professor of Old Testament Theology, which was, "Always exegete the entire passage and keep in mind the times and context in which it was written. Never take a verse in isolation."

Thank you @VickySGVfor the reminder.