What are your opinions on "feminine" things?

[Sol]

This is really just for fun and because I like knowing other people's perspectives on things.

For this topic: What are your opinions on more typically feminine things such as dress style, makeup, or anything else you can think of?

 

I have my fair share of complaints about women's clothing (which I still buy cause I'm familiar with the sizing) such as having no pockets, being too tight around the butt, being too short to go below the waist, etc. I've started moving away from outfits that show cleavage or don't go below my waist, and I've started phasing dresses out of my wardrobe entirely. 

However, I still like skirts and they're my go to outfit when I want to feel like the prettiest boy at the ball (and they have to be below the knee, everything else is too short for me). 

I don't like long hair on myself, but it's a bit of a double edged sword because "Lots of girls are rocking the short hair now!" That's nice, but when did I say I was a girl?

And don't get me started on stereotypes cause that will take all day so I'll just bring up one: starting a family and/or marriage.

I like kids, but don't want them and I've had to repeat this argument multiple times. And marriage is something where it's weird because I'm an aroace guy with an aesthetic preference for men (all men, we include trans and nonbinary folk here), so the chances of me getting married are pretty low.

Now that I've ranted and probably shared too much information, what are your thoughts? And I forgot to mention baking. Why is that a feminine activity? Everybody likes baked goods in some form.

[Roach]

This is an interesting question! Gender presentation is different for a lot of people, so it's cool to see perspectives.

 

I think it's awesome if guys like to wear more feminine things, or use makeup/nail polish. I'm personally not comfortable with it, but it's cool. You mentioned skirts, and I agree they look like a lot of fun to wear, so more power to ya. 😎

 

I used to think I wanted long hair, but growing it out made me quickly realize I didn't. I live in an area where a ton of guys have long hair so it's not unusual or anything. Short hair is way easier to deal with.

 

It sucks that people are pressuring you about marriage/family, it's none of their business lmfao. For "feminine activities" my opinion is it's weird to gender activities and just do whatever is fun. I can't bake for -crap- but I would if I could, you got skills brother.

 

This is entirely unrelated, but I'm under the impression I need to study how other people write on this forum and take notes lol. There's a certain tone/style people use that I can't capture yet, ya feel me? 

[Zelaire]

Great question, Sol. This is at the heart of what I've come to learn is my dysphoria, especially in the intangible things--the social aspects of what we do or don't talk about, in body language, who we resonate with and want to spend time around, etc. I'm lucky that I've built a career and a circle of friends where I'm not expected to be overtly masculine or macho, but there's always a social haze of "this is for women, that's for men" that I find frustrating. Maybe it wouldn't be as frustrating if I were comfortable in my assigned gender role. 

 

As far as the tangible things go, I have always been jealous of the options women have for clothing and expression. Guys clothing seems so boring--pants, t-shirts, and button-downs. A necktie if you're fancy. 😄 I grew up in a conservative time and town so exploring the more feminine options never seemed "allowed" for me. Since I've allowed myself to start questioning and considering my gender identity, I've stopped censoring myself in certain ways, so although I won't wear a skirt in public yet, I've been enjoying some fashion blogs that I would have formerly self-policed out of fear.

 

5 hours ago, Roach said:

I need to study how other people write on this forum and take notes lol.

I'm still new here, too, Roach, so take this with a grain of salt, but my guess is it's great to write however you naturally write--it brings your personality to the front, after all! As long as it's respectful, I'm guessing folks here are naturally accepting of all sorts of expression, including in writing. 😁
But it does bring to mind how even writing and written tone-of-voice can come across as gendered, doesn't it? Certain phrases, ways of saying things, word choice, in our societies they all tend to evoke one gender or another.

[Roach]

1 hour ago, Zelaire said:

I've stopped censoring myself in certain ways, so although I won't wear a skirt in public yet, I've been enjoying some fashion blogs that I would have formerly self-policed out of fear.

Glad to hear you're feeling more comfortable in this way. There's a lot of cool stuff out there! 👍

 

Also, I wouldn't have guessed you're new around here. Always good to see your posts, you seem like a very amiable and nice person, and your messages are always full of positivity. (It's alright if they're not, of course.)

[Sol]

I'm glad you guy like this question! It's fun to examine things under a new lense.

And people aren't necessarily pressuring me into marriage/kids, but it does feel like there's an expectation there sometimes. My mom and I actually talked about kids, and I said that I didn't want them and she said that was fine, she just wants grandpuppies, which I am happy to provide! 

As for writing, write how you'd like! Writing and tone is just a person's voice in a tangible form, and can express how we think, so it's really up to you! There's a quote I really like: Handwriting is just the person's voice on paper. Which is really cool and I think it's kind of sweet.

On a final note, skirts are really fun and comfy, and there's lots of different styles to choose from. I like long ones because they go swish at the bottom Play around with different styles at home and see what you like best!

And I think I'm gonna make brown sugar cookies this weekend, those sound really good.

[Kelly2509]

I have some cognitive dissonance because I recognize that a lot of the things I really enjoy are regularly classified as "performative femininity", well at least in certain circles.  I like doing my hair, showing some cleavage (not too much), dresses, heels, makeup and so on knowing full well that pretty much all of that was constructed to appeal to the "male gaze".  So on the one hand I completely understand all the articles and think pieces that have come out over the last couple years from cis women saying (basically) "who am I doing this for?  It's a pain in my butt, I'ma wear sweatpants to work!" (or something along those lines).  On the other hand I sit there and ask "who am I doing this for?" and the answer is "me.  I'm doing it for me."  It's totally a pain in my butt but it is a price I'm willing to pay because dressing a certain way or having my makeup look just right makes me feel "right".  I WANT some male gaze (or female gaze if they are into that sort of thing) from time to time because it makes me feel valid, and while that's not specifically why I do these things it is a happy coincidence that I might be able to kill 2 birds with 1 stone so to speak. ;)

[Roach]

6 hours ago, Kelly2509 said:

"me.  I'm doing it for me."

This is definitely the most important part! Interesting anecdote and really well said.

[Kelly2509]

@Roach thanks!  Sometimes this stuff is hard to explain so I'm glad I conveyed it well  

 

It's also worth saying that while some of these things are a pain in the butt (shaving legs every week, spending over an hour on makeup to go to work, etc.), they are also some of the most affirming things I do in a given week.  That's something I've said about electrolysis since I began about 15 months ago: "getting stabbed in the face for an hour every week hurts like hell, but it's something I can actively do to make my reality what I want it to be", and I think that sentiment also works when it comes to things like how we dress and what we surround ourselves with.  We are curating our own chunk of reality and we have agency in the world.

[Charlize]

I am a lover of skirts.  At one point pre transition i get a kilt.  I actually hated it.  I simply didn't want to be a butch, hairy legged he-man.  Today my favorite skirts almost touch the ground.  With one heavy weight denim skirt that means a heavy icy edge in winter and at times, if i'm wearing it doing the farm chores, a bit of sheep manure on the hem.

I feel comfy wearing it.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

[Ivy]

1 hour ago, Charlize said:

I am a lover of skirts.  At one point pre transition i get a kilt.  I actually hated it.  I simply didn't want to be a butch, hairy legged he-man.  Today my favorite skirts almost touch the ground.  With one heavy weight denim skirt that means a heavy icy edge in winter and at times, if i'm wearing it doing the farm chores, a bit of sheep manure on the hem.

I feel comfy wearing it.

Me too on the skirts.    Before I admitted I was trans, I thought about kilts, but never really tried them.  

I have a couple of pairs of capris, but never wear them.  And some old bibs for nasty chores.  But I'm almost exclusively skirts or dresses.  I too like them fairly long.  Once you learn how to handle them, you can do pretty much anything wearing them.  I love putting an apron on and messing in the kitchen, or out in the garden.   They just make me feel so much like a woman.

It was finally getting the nerve to try a skirt that cracked my egg wide open.  It's not a sexual thing for me, I just feel free.

 

I don't do makeup though.  I'm kinda old anyway, and just don't like it myself.  

I'm just a weird old lady.

[Sol]

I really love how this topic has progressed and I'm here for it.

[Zelaire]

20 hours ago, Roach said:

Always good to see your posts, you seem like a very amiable and nice person, and your messages are always full of positivity.

Thanks! That means a lot 😊

 

20 hours ago, Sol said:

I'm gonna make brown sugar cookies this weekend

If you figure out how to transfer those across the Internet, I'm on board! 🍪

 

7 hours ago, Kelly2509 said:

We are curating our own chunk of reality and we have agency in the world.

Agency is SO important, isn't it? Comes to a point where I suppose we realize we need to take agency--it won't simply be given to us.

 

2 hours ago, Jandi said:

I don't do makeup though.  I'm kinda old anyway, and just don't like it myself.  

My therapist suggested I try. It's intimidating; I feel like there's this very fine line between "just right" and garish. Probably it's the line between experienced and amateur, and I know which I am!

[neo3000]

On 4/11/2022 at 10:47 PM, Sol said:

What are your opinions on more typically feminine things such as dress style

Feminine things are beautiful. The feminine, itself, is inherently mesmerizing. Feminine fashion is exceptionally creative. As much as I love the beauty of femininity, I do not like it on myself. When it comes to clothing, aesthetics, anything that applies to me in general, masculine aesthetics are the only thing that can make me feel confident. I think that this comes from my dynamic with women: I find myself to be a lot more masculine around my girlfriend, or, femme presenting people. I like the "role" masculinity brings me in contrast with femininity. 

 

On 4/11/2022 at 10:47 PM, Sol said:

I don't like long hair on myself, but it's a bit of a double edged sword

Long hair is so cool, I love how it looks. Unfortunately, I have really thick hair and it's a pain to maintain. Short hair is my way to go, it's a lot more freeing in the sense where I don't have to think about it (and it helps me pass!). I can see why it's a double edged sword though: in my city, so many girls have short hair. But most of the time, it shows by the way you act and dress: it can render that short hair cut feminine or masculine. 

 

On 4/11/2022 at 10:47 PM, Sol said:

starting a family and/or marriage.

Please! Don't get me started. The amount of times I was asked if I "finally" had a boyfriend, or, my elders telling me they can't wait for me to get married. I came clean to everyone though: I ain't ever gonna get married [to a man], and I dislike kids - so don't expect a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g ! 

 

 

[Heather Nicole]

On 4/11/2022 at 4:47 PM, Sol said:

And I forgot to mention baking. Why is that a feminine activity? Everybody likes baked goods in some form.

 

I think anyone who'd tell you baking is exclusively feminine is just being silly. I had a coworker for several years, a young guy, around his 20's, very friendly, everyone liked him, and he was really into baking. Has a real knack for it. Every once in awhile he'd bring in some cookies or whatever else for all of us. They were always a big hit, and certainly nobody ever thought anything "weird" about it, or about him.

 

And then of course there's also Paul Hollywood from The Great British Baking Show. And the old, all-men trio of "the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker". 😁

[Zelaire]

Isn't it weird how, in terms of traditional stereotypes, baking and cooking done at home are "feminine" activities, and done professionally, they've been historically dominated by men? This makes no sense to me.

[Ivy]

6 minutes ago, Zelaire said:

This makes no sense to me.

A lot of things make no sense.

 

It's this patriarchal double standard.  If a woman does it, she's a "cook."  If a man does it, he's a "Chef."  The "Chef" has a higher professional status.  Maybe things are changing, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[stveee]

On 4/12/2022 at 6:49 PM, Kelly2509 said:

I have some cognitive dissonance because I recognize that a lot of the things I really enjoy are regularly classified as "performative femininity", well at least in certain circles.  I like doing my hair, showing some cleavage (not too much), dresses, heels, makeup and so on knowing full well that pretty much all of that was constructed to appeal to the "male gaze".  So on the one hand I completely understand all the articles and think pieces that have come out over the last couple years from cis women saying (basically) "who am I doing this for?  It's a pain in my butt, I'ma wear sweatpants to work!" (or something along those lines).  On the other hand I sit there and ask "who am I doing this for?" and the answer is "me.  I'm doing it for me."  It's totally a pain in my butt but it is a price I'm willing to pay because dressing a certain way or having my makeup look just right makes me feel "right".  I WANT some male gaze (or female gaze if they are into that sort of thing) from time to time because it makes me feel valid, and while that's not specifically why I do these things it is a happy coincidence that I might be able to kill 2 birds with 1 stone so to speak.

That is how I feel, beauty for me is completely vain and self-indulgent.

But I am finding out it's not as easy as I thought it would be pre-transition, as I am very self-conscious almost to point of being a perfectionist. I buy things that look pretty to me but many once worn, don't cut it and then, some things, like a pair of pink skinny jeans didn't think I'd like but ended up making me feel really girly. So it's also about feeling not appearance. Didn't think I'd be into dresses but just the right fit n flare really does it too.

The "male" part of the mind was more visual hard-wired and predictable where my femme mind is more sensual, adaptable, complicated, and moody. If I am feeling pretty I can wear anything and feel great but if I am not, it's an hour standing in front of my wardrobe and tossing stuff.

 

[Spencer Phoenix]

In terms of presentation, I've come to realize over the last year or so that I do enjoy feminine presentation as a trans guy. Skirts, dresses, heels, and earrings have always been fun for me, but I hated being seen as a feminine woman. As I progress through my transition, I'm hoping that I can express my femininity as a man much more. Personally, I don't think I've viewed too many hobbies and activities as "feminine" or "masculine". They are literally just things people do. I've never understood why femininity = baking and masculinity = woodwork, but that's just me.

[Ivy]

30 minutes ago, Spencer Phoenix said:

I've never understood why femininity = baking and masculinity = woodwork, but that's just me.

I know a cis woman who does excellent woodwork.

[rachel w]

I think just dressing and doing the things you like is up to you. for me i like to get girly , but when i go out to plow or cut wood i nead to put my work cloths on

[Sol]

Same @Spencer Phoenix! I like skirts the best and I wear them from time to time, and simple earrings. 

I have a complicated relationship with dresses, so that'll take some time.

[Mandy Cooper]

This is an interesting conversation. I've always hated the male/female role thing, I'm currently married, my wife does almost all the cooking/baking, but just because she enjoys it (she used to be a chef) and is way better at it than me. I've never really been much into baking, but cooking I quite enjoyed, unfortunately, I was the only one that enjoyed my cooking.
The children thing is an interesting one, I've never been a baby person, don't know why, babies just never appealed to me. But as kids get older, it's really good to see them grow and see your influence on them. In my case, I'm step father (I see step father as a role too at this point, not something gender specific) to two daughters, though I think of them as my own. They have also been very supportive during my coming out.
Makeup for me is a difficult one, I'm not very good with makeup, I'm tempted by the thought of hiding my facial hair (which on me is not that bad apart from my upper lip, laser is on the cards in the future). But I don't really like having my whole face covered in foundation. Maybe that will change as I get better at it, that said, I love eye shadow, eyeliner and lipstick, but not so much that I'd wear them every day, I think that's just laziness on my part though and I'm still early in my transition, so things may change.
On a day to day basis, I wear mostly skirts and tops, I love dresses too, but skirts tend to work better for me. If I don't have to go out anywhere, then I'll often wear a dress. But for in public, skirts just work as long as they are not too short. Also as others have said, I like the huge choice of styles. We have a gardener (I hate gardening, so does my wife, but my mother in law who has a cottage on our property loves it, so most of it gets left to her with the help of the gardener). I do end up taking all the garden waste to the tip though and unloading it, so that's the one time I wear anything other than a skirt or dress, old pants just make it easier. Though winter may change that slightly, I haven't been through a winter in skirts and dresses yet (here in South Africa, we are reaching the middle of autumn and the end of the rainy season, so it's starting to get cold and will dry up a lot as we move into winter). So as the cold sets in, I might end up moving more to wearing thick tights or leggings just for the warmth. I'm still building my female wardrobe, but that is taking time (not just because of the cost, finding the right clothes takes a lot of time).
I love longer hair than I have now. When I was younger, for about 5 years or so I had really long hair, but it is really hard to keep up with. These days, my hair is short (left over from me trying to deny my feminine side until recently), but I'm starting to grow it out, I don't think I'll let it get too long, about shoulder length or just a little longer seems the ideal length to me. As in my profile photo, I tend to wear wigs when I go out, but they get very hot, so in the warmer weather, I've often ended up not bothering with the wig. If my hair will grow long enough, I'll likely stop wearing the wig completely, but being on the older end, I'm not sure how that's going to work out.

On 4/12/2022 at 3:24 PM, Roach said:

This is entirely unrelated, but I'm under the impression I need to study how other people write on this forum and take notes lol.

I get this too, my problem is I'm very good at unintentionally putting my foot on my mouth, so trying hard not to do that on here. 

[Mx.Drago]

I'm fine with kilts(they come with pockets), corsets(Straightens the back and supports the coconut weights) and heavy duty worker boots with heels(I'm vertically challenged, any extra height helps), but that's it with pushing my limits. Prefer mostly men's clothing for everything for myself now. I like women's clothing on other people more than on myself. I only do makeup/dress-up for Halloween, and LARPing, and don't make habit of going to the salon for anything. Just can't do feminine stuff anymore, it makes me feel uncomfortable. And though I like my bags, will rarely need one cuz pockets...

Also women's stuff gets expensive and distracting, the clothing is either, ment to bind you, or be so over the top it catches on eveything, and the shoes are too small and tight. Pizza foot isn't normal, why wear shoes that hurt to stand/walk in? Kinda defeats the purpose of wearing shoes, don't care if their pretty, they be pretty useless if you can't simply function in them.

[Zelaire]

On 4/18/2022 at 7:18 PM, Mx.Drago said:

they come with pockets

Ah, yes, pockets!

By day I work with in user experience design, and at one point I worked at an audio equipment company (think headphones and speakers). A female colleague of mine was complaining one day about all the reasons we need our smart phones handy during the day (including for playing audio, but also calendars, emails, etc) and lamenting specifically the related lack of pockets in women's attire. And the insult-to-injury of the fake shallow pocket on many women's pants. Much of our day-to-day life convenience seems designed with one gender of clothing in mind.

This same designer had a great anecdote from a meeting with an engineering team working on a new pair of sports earphones, too. These were the type that have a wire connecting the right and left ear buds, but are wirelessly connected to the phone. There was a problem with the possibility of the earphones hitting the floor if they were to fall out during vigorous exercise. The all male engineering team said "we'll just provide a clip on the wire so users can clip it to the back collar of their t-shirt." My colleague pointed out that a great deal of women's workout tops are tanks and things with straps--there's no collar to clip to. They were at a loss.

 

Maybe a bit of a tangent, but this conversation made me think you'd all appreciate these tidbits...

[Robin]

On many occasions, I have asked women what hobbies and interests they have, and it is very rare to find a woman that can list any.  The standard answers are "I haven't really got any" or "I don't have time for hobbies".  I don't know whether this is because girls have traditionally been brought up to believe that they will have to spend all of their time looking after the home and children.

 

I know that this will sound controversial, but many women are very much against any hobby or pastime that they consider to be too masculine.  This includes such things as going to car shows or playing soccer.  I can remember several occasions when I was a child (boy), and women have been horrified that I had hobbies, and make me feel ashamed about the effect that it must be having on my poor mother.

 

Several people have referred to the lack of pockets on women's clothing.  Some believe that this is a deliberate attempt to prevent women from carrying possessions.  I am not convinced that this is the case.

 

The majority of women carry a handbag, so they don't have the need for large amounts of storage space in their clothing.  This is often convenient for makeup, a mirror, a hair brush and the hundred and one other items that might come in useful.  If all of this was stuffed into pockets, that nice sleek figure that many women strive for, would look more like a sack of potatoes.

 

Robin.