Article: Why Sport Is Struggling to Deal With Trans Issues

[Carolyn Marie]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jun/20/no-magic-solution-in-the-battle-over-trans-inclusion-in-womens-sport

 

There are some research findings presented in this article that may result in my changing my mind about the fairness issue.  I need to look into those studies and see what else is out there.  But even if true, those findings would mostly impact trans athletes who recently (< 3 years ago) medically transitioned.  Some of the decisions being made are regards to women who transitioned years ago, or who never underwent male puberty.  As is often the case, it's a complex issue with a big grey area.  But if I don't want to be accused of hypocrisy, I have to abide by the science.

 

Carolyn Marie

[Ivy]

Yeah.  I expect there is a difference between an adult that recently started HRT and a trans-girl that never went through male puberty.  That need to be considered.  You can't have a one size fits all approach.  That's the problem with a lot of these laws.

[Carolyn Marie]

Update:  I heard this evening from a well known and well read trans activist that both researchers cited in the article are trans-critical extremists, and their research is biased.  But that opinion may also be biased.  It's tough when studies are not independently peer reviewed.  The search for reliable data continues...

 

Carolyn Marie

[Mary]

Interesting that Caitlyn Jenner has come out in favor of some kind of discriminatory practice in sport. One would have thought that she should have a fair amount of insight, given her history. (Not that she's my favorite person when it comes to views on the subject of trans...)

 

But it's a tough question, and ultimately one has to follow where the science leads.

[DeeDee]

It's impossible to ban trans athletes without being bigoted.

When the IOC was testing for testosterone levels, "to ensure fairness", they ended up excluding 2 cis women.

Athletes train their whole lives and most have some form of physical advantage that they then utilise by putting in the time and effort to get good - height in basketball, big feet/reach in swimming. The IOC has realised that being trans in and of itself does not give an automatic advantage, apologised for triggering all of this harm by their pervious policies and told each sport to be inclusive, any guidelines for participation based on separation of gender should be based on human rights, robust evidence and athlete consultation.

If trans athletes are good enough for the olympics which is the elitist of elite sports competitions, then it should be good enough for the rest of society too.

https://www.si.com/olympics/2022/03/23/transgender-athletes-testosterone-policies-ioc-framework

[Davie]

I agree @DeeDee--

When there are wide varieties of solutions that depend on inclusion, how can one decision be "scientific?" Check out how football in Germany handles it. 

— Davie

Transgender footballers in Germany can https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/23/transgender-footballers-in-germany-can-choose-men-or-women-team?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[miz miranda]

I'll start by saying I have no clue whether trans athletes have an advantage. I maintain that we honestly don't yet know whether is an advantage or not. There isn't a lot research that has been done and it is difficult research to do. As with all science there will be controversy. I think this is an issue that needs to looked at from the perspective of elite competition and separately from the perspective of letting people participate in parts of life. 

 

For the latter, especially children before puberty should allowed to be themselves, have fun and experience all of the benefits of team and individual sports for building life skills.

 

While I'm sure that bigotry does play a role in some of the arguments against transgender competition at the elite level. I also believe that inherent fairness play a significant role in this issue. I compete in triathlons nowhere near an elite level. I did qualify for USA triathlon age group nationals but finished at the bottom of pack. There are a number of competitive aspects that are argued at that level. For example, should former professional triathletes be able to compete for championships with age group athletes?

 

Fundamentally the fairness issues is very difficult because it is a concept more than a specific determination. It affects many people and most have a reasonable stake in the discussion. I don't see how one can ignore how long and hard women fought to be able compete broadly as well as have access to similar training resources. As a competitor I know how it feels when you are not good enough to compete with those that will win the competition. Most sports are adjusted for age with age group categories. An 80 year old no matter how talented will not beat the best 20 and 30 year olds.

 

Science is fairly strong that testosterone offers many benefits in building strength and power. I also believe that is generally recognized that cis males are larger and stronger than cis females which provides an advantage in many sports thus they compete based on those categories. I struggle to see why one can't accept how the elite female competitor may feel that they do not have a chance to win. It could be bigotry,  it could be ignorance but right now we dealing with opinions. In my view, it is unfortunate that the reaction to the largely political debate has led some sporting bodies to make the standards more difficult. I include both sides of the argument in the political, there is a fine line between advocacy and extremism. I try to allow myself to change my mind when presented with information that challenges what I believe. But also to recognize when presented with a fact or an opinion.

 

I can only hope that discussion leads to research and investigation that leads to a better solution.

[Clofree]

“Given the important role played by muscle strength and power in bike riding performance, the UCI has decided to increase the transition period on low testosterone from 12 to 24 months.”

“I understand how you’d come to this conclusion because a lot of people still view trans women as men with male anatomies and physiologies,” she said in an interview with DIVA magazine. “But hormone replacement therapy has such a massive effect. The aerobic performance difference is gone after about four months.

“There are studies going on for trans women in sport. I’m doing one and the performance drop-off that I’ve seen is massive. I don’t have any advantage over my competitors and I’ve got data to back that up.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jun/16/cyclings-governing-body-sets-stricter-rules-for-transgender-athletes