Five Killed and 18+ Wounded At Colorado Springs NIghtclub

[VickySGV]

https://abcnews.go.com/US/dead-18-injured-shooting-colorado-club-officials/story?id=93658669&fbclid=IwAR1Jxyc8LutwNgcfNaK-VDHHMJLK7x79rQUVo8cAJAvVFWVWNOiub00poqY

 

I have at least 5 Facebook friends who have been in this venue and "Came Out" at it in the past.  Their personal connection to it has be crying with many emotions.  Today is TDOR and this is NOT how it was to begin.  Yes, this was in an ultra conservative community where we are despised, but why this far and violent??

 

[Carolyn Marie]

I'm just waiting for the "thoughts and prayers" to go out from the usual suspects, who normally despise our community, and who will pretend to care when they don't.  There is an LGBTQ social event in Hollywood Monday night, at which my photographer son is scheduled to work.  I will be scared to death for him, and hope that the facility has excellent security.

 

How many mass murders have occurred at LGBT nightclubs?  Three that I recall off the top of my head.  When I was a member of the West Hollywood Transgender Advisory Board, I worried greatly about such an incident happening at one of our public meetings.  We had no security whatsoever.  LGBTQ clubs need to greatly improve security, or many of our friends will stop going to them.  I no longer attend many public gatherings, in large part because of the fear of attack.  It isn't going to get any better, unfortunately.

 

There is nothing I can "send" to the victims that will help them recover or mourn.  What I send to all of you is just a warning to be careful, keep your head on a swivel, and be prepared to protect yourself or others if it's needed.  💔

 

Carolyn Marie

[Ivy]

27 minutes ago, Carolyn Marie said:

I'm just waiting for the "thoughts and prayers" to go out from the usual suspects, who normally despise our community, and who will pretend to care when they don't. 

The very people inciting the hate who then act shocked when someone follows through on it.

 

[awkward-yet-sweet]

Reminds me of the 2016 Orlando shooting at a gay nightclub.  Neither Colorado Springs or Orlando are what I would call "conservative communities."  Perhaps they are more adequately described as culture-clash zones where there is high population density.  I fear that LGBTQ+ events are seen as easy targets.

 

The thing people need to realize is that events where large numbers of people are close together are vulnerable to attack.  Attackers can choose any weapon they like - knives, cars, bombs, etc...   Large numbers of people in a small area guarantee a high kill count no matter what weapon is used.  There are a lot of people in the world who are angry, mentally ill, don't value life, and seek to start or engage in some kind of war.  The times have been changing for most of my life, but a large portion of the population doesn't want to admit it.  The result of this will be the usual "thoughts and prayers" from some, along with the usual calls for tyrannical gun bans from others.  This is just going to feed the politicians, who usually try to benefit from tragedy in some way.

 

My family and I stay away from crowds because of the risk.  There is absolutely no way I'd attend a large LGBTQ+ social event anywhere in any nation.  Or a large concert, parade, festival, or political rally of any type for that matter.  Being safe means accepting the unpleasant reality and staying out of harm's way. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ivy]

6 minutes ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

the usual calls for tyrannical gun bans from others.

I can't see this ever happening in the US.  There's just too many guns out there already.

 

[awkward-yet-sweet]

4 minutes ago, Ivy said:

I can't see this ever happening in the US.  There's just too many guns out there already.

And yet, they'll try.  Happens every time, almost like a ritual.  The usual politicians will propose yet another bill, and waste everybody's time.  Gun companies' stocks will rise temporarily during a new ban scare.  There'll be some opposing rhetoric, again from the usual sources.  Ammunition supplies at the stores will be short for a while.  Enterprising folks like my GF will make some money on all this, having anticipated the cycle.  Then things will settle down and prices will drop (until the next one.)  The political theater disgusts me, as it increases the likelihood of new tragedies.     

[LaurenA]

1 hour ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

The thing people need to realize is that events where large numbers of people are close together are vulnerable to attack.  Attackers can choose any weapon they like - knives, cars, bombs, etc...   Large numbers of people in a small area guarantee a high kill count no matter what weapon is used.  There are a lot of people in the world who are angry, mentally ill, don't value life, and seek to start or engage in some kind of war.  The times have been changing for most of my life, but a large portion of the population doesn't want to admit it.  The result of this will be the usual "thoughts and prayers" from some, along with the usual calls for tyrannical gun bans from others.  This is just going to feed the politicians, who usually try to benefit from tragedy in some way.

 

My family and I stay away from crowds because of the risk.  There is absolutely no way I'd attend a large LGBTQ+ social event anywhere in any nation.  Or a large concert, parade, festival, or political rally of any type for that matter.  Being safe means accepting the unpleasant reality and staying out of harm's way. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree.  I'm afraid this is why I'm not "out" in public.  I'm too scared to let anyone know I'm trans.  As far as anyone knows I'm just a long haired hippie.

[Ivy]

I live openly as Ivy.  I avoid confrontations, but I don't hide.  I don't think it's because of any bravery, or stupidity.  I just live my life.

I do avoid crowds, but mostly because I always have disliked them.

I don't like a lot of what is going on in our society these days, but I refuse to live in fear.

[LaurenA]

17 minutes ago, Ivy said:

I live openly as Ivy.  I avoid confrontations, but I don't hide.  I don't think it's because of any bravery, or stupidity.  I just live my life.

I do avoid crowds, but mostly because I always have disliked them.

I don't like a lot of what is going on in our society these days, but I refuse to live in fear.

You are VERY brave in my book!

[awkward-yet-sweet]

I think a lot of life is about having perspective.  Right now, having a group of people attacked and a handful of deaths is noteworthy.  We should be thankful for that, because across world history that has not been the case.  Americans and Western Europeans got used to a time of peace and prosperity, where we were protected by police and a moral society and able to enjoy a secure lifestyle that was a historical anomaly.  Events like this are shocking because they shatter the privileged illusion we grew up with. 

 

The reality is that the world has always been a rather brutal place.  Prudence and caution are life's requirements. 

[VickySGV]

I think the subject of firearms has been chewed to its full extent and we are losing sight of the fact that this was a place considered to be safe and where friends of mine had come out much as I did 20 years ago at a similar nightclub in the North Hollywood CA area.  The victims of murder had gone there with the expectation of being with people like themselves for an evening remembering Trans Day of Remembrance and embracing their own identities and own sexual attraction.  Put plainly, minding their own business and having their own fellowship.

 

Colorado Springs CO IS the home of two avowed H8 organizations and many people in the city work for them.  The organizations are the ultimate authors and finance sources of the Anti-Trans Legislation going on in many states. The presence of The U.S. Air Force Academy which, although non-discriminatory by law still has highly conservative underpinnings  So far no details link the murderer to either group, but the investigation is ongoing.

[Ivy]

I do find some slight satisfaction that it was the people in the club that subdued the gunman.

[Kasumi63]

I feel completely safe in large gatherings, just not in the US.

[Mx.Drago]

These be tense times. I figure my odds aren't really the greatest, despite my current situation. Always been an effective dodger. But have to agree, to some degree the illusion of unity and safety have been compromised. Sadly the world hasn't stopped spinning and I'm still feeling like I need to be the embodiment of the "Ignore Me!," just to get by somewhat intact if not a tad touched in the wrong way.😑 "It only takes a moment." Be well and stay safe.

[Heather Nicole]

The "2nd amendment" in one of this country's greatest failures, second only to slavery. This country spends far too much time and money arming and placating hicks.

[Charlize]

    Sorry but i am not as interested in the issue of firearms as i am by the deaths and injuries inflicted by an individual who used them.  I hate to see a thread started to voice  the feelings caused by a terrible unprovoked attack on the GLBTQ community turn to a defense of firearms.  While that debate seems to rise with every mass shooting it is the loss many of us feel that is appropriate here.  

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

[Ivy]

I do find some slight satisfaction that it was the people in the club that subdued the gunman.

[Heather Nicole]

On 11/21/2022 at 10:30 AM, Katie23 said:

Even if tomorrow, all weapons went away, we would still have those who would find a way to harm and inflict brutality against others. We will still face threats from individuals and from hate groups.We need to be cautious, while at the same time courageous.

 

I absolutely agree. In the absence of guns/firearms, we absolutely, without a doubt, would still be facing continued threats from the unhinged, false-scripture-fueled bigots. There's no doubt about that.

 

However...The widespread availability of firearms (especially the kinds we have now that the "founding fathers" wouldn't have even conceived of[1]) only makes these threats vastly more convenient, vastly more likely, and vastly more frequent. This claim is factually supported by the genuine, actual realities of the rest of the civilized world (ie, without a "2nd amendment"), where conservatism and bigotry is every bit as common, and yet "no guns involved" bombings and such are vastly less common than "Amurica's" famed mass shootings.

 

[1] Let alone the present-day potential for firearm modifications (like the 3d printed mods this particular gunman actually used)...And nevermind the fact that the 2nd amendment was written before we even had a national-level military and was specifically designed back in the famously failed "Articles" era as a way to provide for state-level militaries (ie "militias") in the absence of the national-level military we have now that the failed "Articles" avoided creating. It was NOT created for civilians to have fun playing with guns in their backyard, or to "hunt" food with fully- or semi-automatic rifles designed for military combat, or to facilitate a civilian "arms war" where the most macho hillbilly with the biggest, fanciest arsenal earns the right to be the safest hillbilly.

[Heather Nicole]

On 11/20/2022 at 12:11 PM, awkward-yet-sweet said:

My family and I stay away from crowds because of the risk.  There is absolutely no way I'd attend a large LGBTQ+ social event anywhere in any nation.  Or a large concert, parade, festival, or political rally of any type for that matter.  Being safe means accepting the unpleasant reality and staying out of harm's way. 

 

Is this how things should be?

[VickySGV]

This IS NOT a place to discuss the politics of Gun ownership.  Last warning before I lock the topic. 

 

We can discuss the impact of this type of thing on the entire range of LGBTQ communities and the heartwarming facts of how and who stopped the carnage from being worse.  The debate about Firearms Politics is over here.