11th Circuit Federal Appeals Court Upholds FL Bathroom Ban

[Carolyn Marie]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-appeals-court-upholds-florida-high-schools-transgender-bathroom-policy-2022-12-30/

 

This flies in the face of at least two other Appeals Court decision ruling the opposite way, meaning the SCOTUS may take up the issue in the next 1-2 years.  Not good for us at all.

 

Carolyn Marie

[VickySGV]

They are contrary to all other CCA's to rule on this, and all the judges writing this opinion were appointed by guess who.  (Don't make a big deal about the guessing.)

 

[Ivy]

Kinda weird how where we pee has turned into this huge political issue.  

[Ivy]

25 minutes ago, Katie23 said:

Most of them have never even talked to one of us.

This is the thing, ya know?

Most of them don't know anything about us except what they hear on Fox News - and that's almost all lies.

[KathyLauren]

I just have one thing to say about that:  AAAAAAAAaaaaaargh!!  😡

[Carolyn Marie]

IMO, 2023 will bring attempts to pass legislation that forbids adult trans folk from using public restrooms in accord with our gender.  The hysterical fear so many have of us, and the "grooming" and "pedophile" labels have really stuck this time.  I'm not sure what it will take to roll this back.

 

Carolyn Marie

[Trans22]

I wish that people would realize that "Cisgender isn't normal, it's just common".   I'm so glad that I live in regional Queensland (Australia) - I'm the only woman using the public restroom space most of the time.  Women who know me have no issue with me using female spaces

[VickySGV]

46 minutes ago, Trans22 said:

Women who know me have no issue with me using female spaces

Same here in my neighborhood as well.  I read one piece recently that summed it up. "I am not afraid of my neighbors.  You are not afraid of your neighbors, but your neighbors scare the heck out of me, and I scare the heck out of them."  I personally have reached a point though where I Know that I am not or rarely suspected of being an Evil Trans, and the places I go most often simply ignore me. 

[awkward-yet-sweet]

Well, this could get interesting.  No matter how it goes, I'd like to see the bathroom wars put to rest for good.  Hearing about it so much for the last few years has grown tiresome, when the solution (individual omni-gender mini-bathrooms) is safer and more private. 

 

To me, this issue is a failure on both sides, and the rhetoric has really hurt LGBTQ+ folks.  Thinking outside the box could make everybody happy and at peace with each other.  We could have avoided this completely.

 

 

[Ivy]

8 minutes ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

No matter how it goes, I'd like to see the bathroom wars put to rest for good.

So you are fine with me being forced to use the men's room?

[awkward-yet-sweet]

5 minutes ago, Ivy said:

So you are fine with me being forced to use the men's room?

 

Honestly, I don't care.  Men's room, women's room... I use either if I have to, but I mostly avoid.  I just don't want to be doing my business around other people.  The American semi-public "tiny stall wall of separation" thing that is so common...it has GOT to go. 

 

The bathroom debate could have been a way to make that happen, but it has been fought from the wrong angle.  A compromise means both sides win and it would improve bathroom quality, cleanliness, and safety for all.  

 

 

[Carolyn Marie]

2 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

The bathroom debate could have been a way to make that happen, but it has been fought from the wrong angle.  A compromise means both sides win and it would improve bathroom quality, cleanliness, and safety for all.  

 

 

It's a good idea, but corporations, builders & government entities would balk at the expense of remodeling.  Maybe in new construction, perhaps, but even then, it would cost more and that's a non-starter.  Heck, here in EQ prone CA, it's hard to find funds to shore up shaky buildings, some of which are death traps.

 

Carolyn Marie

[Charlize]

At this point the men's room would be quite awkward for the guys within more than for me.  I just wish they could be bothered to lift the seat aim well and then replace the seat.  

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

[Ivy]

28 minutes ago, Charlize said:

 I just wish they could be bothered to lift the seat aim well and then replace the seat.

Even in my "Guy Days" I didn't understand that one.

 

Happy New Year

[KathyLauren]

44 minutes ago, Katie23 said:

I wonder how the Reichsfürher of Florida will go about rounding us up?

 

Geez, don't even joke about that!  I am sure it is in their plans after they soften up the general public a bit more.  😡

[Ivy]

2 hours ago, KathyLauren said:

Geez, don't even joke about that!  I am sure it is in their plans after they soften up the general public a bit more. 

I kinda expect something like this.

If nothing else, they will try to invalidate the gender changes.

[Ivy]

2 hours ago, Katie23 said:

I do not believe the hate is widespread among the population, but there are others that will feel empowered to "do something about those people..." 

Perhaps not yet, but if it is continually pushed…

 

I think that a lot of the politicians pushing this don't personally give a rat's @@s about it.  But it is convenient for them to stir up votes.

 

I am not optimistic about where this is going.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

On 12/31/2022 at 6:48 PM, Carolyn Marie said:

 

It's a good idea, but corporations, builders & government entities would balk at the expense of remodeling.  Maybe in new construction, perhaps, but even then, it would cost more and that's a non-starter.  Heck, here in EQ prone CA, it's hard to find funds to shore up shaky buildings, some of which are death traps.

 

 

Perhaps...but considering the cost of legal actions, I suspect bathroom remodeling might be the cheaper option for almost every location. 

 

We'll just have to see where this one goes.  I suspect folks believe DeSantis has a lot more power than he really does. 

[Susan R]

17 hours ago, Katie23 said:

am more worried about going into the men's room. It would be easy to get assaulted

It would be a nightmare if I was forced to suddenly start using men’s restrooms. I would likely not obey that law even if it was a misdemeanor. But if the powers that be have it their way, they could very well make it some sort of serious sexual offense. That could have long term negative ramifications on our community.

 

Interestingly enough, I’ve used many “All Gender” restrooms at a few colleges in and around the Seattle metropolitan area. It was a little different at first but I have not observed any issue with either gender being a problem in those restrooms with a different gender than themselves. IMHO, the issue has been blown up disproportionately to the real problem that it creates… aka: over-politicized. Yes, bullying is still a real issue but to me it’s at least partially due to all the emphasis on what is expected by that local population.

[Ivy]

At a local coffeehouse they simply took down the gendered signs on the doors.  Of course they are single bathrooms, kinda like at Trader Joes.  

[VickySGV]

Here in CA, a friend of @Carolyn Marie's was instrumental in getting some law made that single user RR's in the State all be gender neutral.  I frequently see signs about the room being "Urinal Equipped" but that is the only distinction between them and when a line at the unmarked room has been long, actually encouraged by employees to use the Urinal equipped rooms.  The neutral RR''s all have baby changing tables in them as well and I see appreciative Dad's with small fry and diaper bags going in and out.  

 

My funny story about Florida was a Trans Convention held in Ft. Lauderdale.  Our convention was in one wing of the hotel conference center and our RR's had been designated as Gender Neutral  (we were about even on CD's and TS people, many with spouses).  In the other wing of the convention center was a Church Convention with strictly labeled and even amplified with their signs in the hall ways being guarded by suit and tie wearing "Elders" who attempted in vain to keep their attendees from coming over to our convention's rest room area.  It was easy to see the large number of suits and ties in the Neutral restroom without urinals.  I suspect there could have been several strokes among the Church Convention guardians that day, and they day after while our Trans Convention was still going on, and they were gone, we had no barriers to their former RR's. 

[Astrid]

2 hours ago, VickySGV said:

  I frequently see signs about the room being "Urinal Equipped" but that is the only distinction between them and when a line at the unmarked room has been long, actually encouraged by employees to use the Urinal equipped rooms.  The neutral RR''s all have baby changing tables in them as well and I see appreciative Dad's with small fry and diaper bags going in and out.  

 

Exactly. A sign reading "Rest Room" (with an optional "urinal equipped" note) can be perceived (in some areas of the USA) more positively than a sign reading "Gender Neutral Rest Room" (with male and female symbols).  Same single-use rest room, same facilities, just different signage.

 

Other cultures are able to move beyond this, even as the USA has made rest rooms as gender-charged issue.  On my last trip to Gothenburg, Sweden, the elegant old city theatre had renovated itself with a spacious rest room area for all adults in the corridor outside the seating area.  There were single-use stalls (larger than you often see in the USA) with plenty of hooks for hanging purses, bags, or coats in each one.  There was a common sink and mirror area for all.  A pleasure (for all, of any identity) to use.

 

Astrid