how I dress/personality treated like I’m dumb

[Natalie21]

Since I came out and started dressing like I want to, I’ve noticed how I dress has changed people’s perception of me. When I was closeted  and dressed male. I was perceived sorta nerdy as I loved school and learning or as a jock as I was an athletic and played sports. Since coming out and dressing in lots of pink and purple. My fashion is very much Barbie core but cutesy and wholesome, not sexy. Even though I’m still in an exercise science major, I’ve noticed I’m perceived like I’m dumb and only care how I look. Like that 1 girl in every High school movie. I’m very bubbly and kinda oblivious to detail which hasn’t helped how I’m perceived. As I dress girly, shop junior styles for adults, and am very bubbly.

 

How do I get used to society treating me like a  dumb pink pretty princess? It’s a big change to how I was taken seriously when I was not out yet

[Sally Stone]

Natalie, I don't know if it's possible to ever actually get used to being treated the way you are, because that's stereotyping, which is just plain wrong.  I wish others wouldn't do that and I'm sorry their views are directed at you.  I think the only thing you can do is to demonstrate you aren't a dumb pink princess when the opportunity presents itself.  Usually, when you are able to interact with people directly, their opinion of you generally always changes.

 

I take the opportunity to engage people directly when I am presenting as Sally whenever possible, because my experience has taught me that when I interact directly, people realize I'm intelligent and that I am not so different from them, except of course, for my girly-girl fashion sense.  Keep dressing the way that makes you happy and when there is opportunity, show others there is a lot more to you than just your style or your fashion sense. 

[Vidanjali]

I would suggest please DO NOT get used to it as that would necessitate at least a bit of internalized sexism which can be damaging and degrading. That aspect of transition - social attitudes/biases toward and expectations of women vs enjoyment of privilege of patriarchy must be shocking. Before I continue, please note that by "enjoyment of privilege" I mean the phenomenon wherein an individual in a position of privilege (like presenting and being perceived as male) is often unaware of that privilege - such is the nature of privilege - I do not mean to imply any necessarily exploitive enjoyment - it's just a matter of fact. I have heard other trans women talk about this - the shock of how differently they are treated when presenting femme.

 

I myself being afab, was socialized as female. Along my journey to coming out, there was a period of time when I went all out presenting femme because I thought that maybe practice would make perfect, lol - like fake it (in this case, being cis) until you make it. I noticed that straight men treated me very differently during that time - acting chivalrous and often (usually superficially) on their best behavior to impress and lure. Yet, all the while, I truly wanted to be the chivalrous one. 

 

Speaking of stereotypes, while I have been aware of sexism practically all my life due to the shape of my body, because I wear glasses, I am usually perceived as intelligent and studious, which I am, btw, but I mean at (literal) face value. During the aforementioned femme period, I was stereotyped as a "hot librarian" type 🙄 (an ironic archetype, I would add, as more often than not, one is not found attractive because of one's mind, which imo is vastly preferable). 

 

No one can single-handedly smash sexist stereotypes. One can learn to maneuver within them, but you must also determine the limits of what you'll put up with, speak your mind when necessary, and learn to be gracefully flexible. In fact, sometimes women find being the subject of stereotyping affirming - it depends on context.

 

I suggest journaling about your experience. It'll provide a lot of relief to vent your thoughts and feelings, and you will encounter deeper insight in the process. Experiment. Dress and present however makes you happy. Don't let them get you down. If you don't wear glasses, get a fashionable nonprescription pair and notice if you're perceived differently. That may sound silly, but it's all in the spirit of play. As you gain deeper insight into what happiness means to you, your dress style may change too. This is not to say you must change for others - just that you may find you feel more secure and integrated with who you are inside & how you're perceived outside by making tweaks to your style. This is a natural process for everyone - as we live our lives many versions of ourselves come out - some more dramatic or subtle than others. Do you have girlfriends? Other supportive people in your life? Trustworthy and loving people are the best mirrors of who we are - they will affirm the best and most beautiful qualities of you. 

 

Lol, I wrote a book ^^^ see what I mean? 🤓😆

[Natalie21]

On 1/16/2023 at 3:54 PM, Sally Stone said:

Natalie, I don't know if it's possible to ever actually get used to being treated the way you are, because that's stereotyping, which is just plain wrong.  I wish others wouldn't do that and I'm sorry their views are directed at you.  I think the only thing you can do is to demonstrate you aren't a dumb pink princess when the opportunity presents itself.  Usually, when you are able to interact with people directly, their opinion of you generally always changes.

 

I take the opportunity to engage people directly when I am presenting as Sally whenever possible, because my experience has taught me that when I interact directly, people realize I'm intelligent and that I am not so different from them, except of course, for my girly-girl fashion sense.  Keep dressing the way that makes you happy and when there is opportunity, show others there is a lot more to you than just your style or your fashion sense. 

Thank you for your advice. 

[Natalie21]

On 1/17/2023 at 9:57 AM, Vidanjali said:

I would suggest please DO NOT get used to it as that would necessitate at least a bit of internalized sexism which can be damaging and degrading. That aspect of transition - social attitudes/biases toward and expectations of women vs enjoyment of privilege of patriarchy must be shocking. Before I continue, please note that by "enjoyment of privilege" I mean the phenomenon wherein an individual in a position of privilege (like presenting and being perceived as male) is often unaware of that privilege - such is the nature of privilege - I do not mean to imply any necessarily exploitive enjoyment - it's just a matter of fact. I have heard other trans women talk about this - the shock of how differently they are treated when presenting femme.

 

I myself being afab, was socialized as female. Along my journey to coming out, there was a period of time when I went all out presenting femme because I thought that maybe practice would make perfect, lol - like fake it (in this case, being cis) until you make it. I noticed that straight men treated me very differently during that time - acting chivalrous and often (usually superficially) on their best behavior to impress and lure. Yet, all the while, I truly wanted to be the chivalrous one. 

 

Speaking of stereotypes, while I have been aware of sexism practically all my life due to the shape of my body, because I wear glasses, I am usually perceived as intelligent and studious, which I am, btw, but I mean at (literal) face value. During the aforementioned femme period, I was stereotyped as a "hot librarian" type 🙄 (an ironic archetype, I would add, as more often than not, one is not found attractive because of one's mind, which imo is vastly preferable). 

 

No one can single-handedly smash sexist stereotypes. One can learn to maneuver within them, but you must also determine the limits of what you'll put up with, speak your mind when necessary, and learn to be gracefully flexible. In fact, sometimes women find being the subject of stereotyping affirming - it depends on context.

 

I suggest journaling about your experience. It'll provide a lot of relief to vent your thoughts and feelings, and you will encounter deeper insight in the process. Experiment. Dress and present however makes you happy. Don't let them get you down. If you don't wear glasses, get a fashionable nonprescription pair and notice if you're perceived differently. That may sound silly, but it's all in the spirit of play. As you gain deeper insight into what happiness means to you, your dress style may change too. This is not to say you must change for others - just that you may find you feel more secure and integrated with who you are inside & how you're perceived outside by making tweaks to your style. This is a natural process for everyone - as we live our lives many versions of ourselves come out - some more dramatic or subtle than others. Do you have girlfriends? Other supportive people in your life? Trustworthy and loving people are the best mirrors of who we are - they will affirm the best and most beautiful qualities of you. 

 

Lol, I wrote a book ^^^ see what I mean? 🤓😆

Thank you for your very detailed answer.

I completely understand what you mean about how you wanted to be chivalrous individual. 

 

I will definitely try your suggestions to journal. I always tell myself I’m going to start to journal, but never remember to do it lol.

 

That glasses idea is an interesting solution,I didn’t think about that. I think your definitely right that my fashion has a lot 

 to do with what makes me “feel more secure and integrated” with myself. As a 1.5 years ago I dressed  either athletically as my major requires or very business casual, to fit a norm. Where now because I’m more comfortable and always want to pass female, I dress in pink overalls, heart covered tracksuits, fuzzy jackets and dresses with tights whenever I can.

 

I do wonder if a lot of my fashion likes are based of what I missed my first 19 years of life, as I get my fashion ideas from junior section a lot. I don’t mean for size either, just more of the actual style like I mentioned above

[Vidanjali]

On 1/22/2023 at 12:53 PM, Natalie21 said:

I do wonder if a lot of my fashion likes are based of what I missed my first 19 years of life, as I get my fashion ideas from junior section a lot. I don’t mean for size either, just more of the actual style like I mentioned above

 

That is a remarkable insight. I think it's not uncommon for a transitioning trans individuals to adopt a style of dress that aligns, age-wise, with their missed development - like dressing along with a second puberty (whether hrt is involved or not). No shame and no criticism. We each must do what makes us happy.

 

I'm reminded of a trans woman student I had many years ago. She went all out with pink and fur and like an anime kind of style. Unfortunately, her classmates tended to regard her askance. While I tried to demonstrate a model for civility in the classroom & met with her frequently and tried to support her, she wound up dropping out. A few years later, I ran into her at the mall. She had toned down her style to be more casual and understated, and her demeanor seemed calm and confident. She told me she'd eventually re-enrolled at another college and was close to graduating. She'd been through a lot and now considered herself a generally happy person. She looked great and I was very happy to see her as I always wondered what happened to her.

 

This is not to say that toning down one's style is the key to happiness. Just emphasizing that there will be many versions of us which will be genuine in their own way in their own time. 

[awkward-yet-sweet]

Unfortunately, the world is not how we would like it to be. We deal with how it is.  Humans judge each other by clothing, unfortunately.  Flamboyant styles or pastel colors are perceived as feminine, flaky, and weak.  Not much of a way of changing this. 

 

My GF used to work in a male-dominated tech field.  She's very smart and very beautiful, but also very assertive.  For her whole life, she has avoided wearing bright and stereotypically "girly" clothing.  She dislikes the styles, the fragility of the fabric, and how people perceive it.  She brags (and I believe her) that she has never worn a skirt in her life...and even on her wedding day she did not wear a dress.  Her choice has always been to purchase men's clothing, and then alter it with her sewing machine to fit her curvy figure.  She usually wears dark or drab colors - lots of gray, black, brown, blue, and green.  She's "all girl" but clearly owns her environment.  The result?  Very few colleagues dared to give her a difficult time.  At work, you dress for how you want to be perceived, even if that isn't exactly what you prefer.  Which is one reason why I chose a job where I can work from home. 

[Natalie21]

22 hours ago, Vidanjali said:

 

That is a remarkable insight. I think it's not uncommon for a transitioning trans individuals to adopt a style of dress that aligns, age-wise, with their missed development - like dressing along with a second puberty (whether hrt is involved or not). No shame and no criticism. We each must do what makes us happy.

 

I'm reminded of a trans woman student I had many years ago. She went all out with pink and fur and like an anime kind of style. Unfortunately, her classmates tended to regard her askance. While I tried to demonstrate a model for civility in the classroom & met with her frequently and tried to support her, she wound up dropping out. A few years later, I ran into her at the mall. She had toned down her style to be more casual and understated, and her demeanor seemed calm and confident. She told me she'd eventually re-enrolled at another college and was close to graduating. She'd been through a lot and now considered herself a generally happy person. She looked great and I was very happy to see her as I always wondered what happened to her.

 

This is not to say that toning down one's style is the key to happiness. Just emphasizing that there will be many versions of us which will be genuine in their own way in their own time. 

Your former students style sounds very similar to mine. I'm so glad you helped to support her the way you did. It makes all the difference to us college students.  I had professors last semester that were always there, just like you. It makes such a huge difference. It stinks how some college kids treated your student or on an occasion me.  At least from my experience, It reminds me of the treatment a late bloomer going into the end of middle school or entering High school, that only changes their outfit to not get bullied and fit the norm. For my case its living at a college with lots of partying, and dressing more revealing, while I dress more like the “style of dress that aligns, age-wise, with their missed development”

I do think 2^nd puberty has made me more confident which you referenced.

[Natalie21]

14 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

Unfortunately, the world is not how we would like it to be. We deal with how it is.  Humans judge each other by clothing, unfortunately.  Flamboyant styles or pastel colors are perceived as feminine, flaky, and weak.  Not much of a way of changing this. 

 

My GF used to work in a male-dominated tech field.  She's very smart and very beautiful, but also very assertive.  For her whole life, she has avoided wearing bright and stereotypically "girly" clothing.  She dislikes the styles, the fragility of the fabric, and how people perceive it.  She brags (and I believe her) that she has never worn a skirt in her life...and even on her wedding day she did not wear a dress.  Her choice has always been to purchase men's clothing, and then alter it with her sewing machine to fit her curvy figure.  She usually wears dark or drab colors - lots of gray, black, brown, blue, and green.  She's "all girl" but clearly owns her environment.  The result?  Very few colleagues dared to give her a difficult time.  At work, you dress for how you want to be perceived, even if that isn't exactly what you prefer.  Which is one reason why I chose a job where I can work from home. 

I know the world isn’t perfect.

I also am in a male dominated field. My major is exercise science with a minor in coaching, with the goal of going to grad school for physical therapy. My current major is surprisingly very close to 50/50 male and female. I know there are more genders than 2, but I’m 99.9% sure I’m the only non- cisgendered individual and probably one of the few, if only LGBTQIA+ student’s. I think for me it’s hard to dress to fit the norm, as I have to dress how I want. Whenever I try to fit in society’s norms, being cis, straight, how I dress, or other norms I can’t think of, I always become  very depressed, and bitter at everyone as it feels like I can’t be me. So, I know I need to be me and just get over society’s expectations, as I can’t deal with being depressed from hiding who I am.

I do think its nerve-wracking long term for how my fashion fits into my life and career. As at least title 9 protects me mostly even if some students don’t like it. But by this summer I will have one of my 4 different certifications in my major for different jobs and it’s going to be much different. My current job is retail but this summer I will go into coaching with this certification Either basketball (likely men’s) or football. At least currently I find woman’s team harder to coach. It’s going to be interesting how my style affects it. Especially as I like working with older kids, middle school at the youngest, preferably 8^th-12^th and I worry about losing control and respect of a team of testosterone filled teenage boys, with how I dress. It will obviously be more athletic clothing, just very girly. (I don’t know if you saw my examples of my girly fashion style above awkward-yet-sweet, but the examples of how I dress was I dress in pink overalls, heart covered tracksuits, fuzzy jackets, and dresses with tights.  Athletic clothing for my major and career  is just pink and purple sweatpants, different colored leggings and girly tops (lots of pink and purple.

 

[GlitchedSalvation]

carry around a thick book, preferably psychology or physics, and if someone asks strike up a conversation about the topic. Works in any situation where you're not taken seriously, like when you're young (hence why I carry around a college textbook)