How Rare Are Androgyns

[Guest AlexForever]

I think that sometimes there is this "nonbinaryphobia" (we need an official term for it) even in trans communities; the trans forum I was in before joining Laura's had some VERY nonbinaryphobic transwomen, and some of them were even intolerant of transwomen and transmen who didn't go "all the way" as if they were "fake".

I did question whether I was nonbinary or male for quite a while, but eventually I realized that I am male; a gender-variant male, but still a male.

I was a little afraid about the possibility of being nonbinary, I confess, because it's like being a minority of a minority of a minority, and I think I've already got plenty of minorities as it is (I'm a minority of a minority of a minority of a minority of a minority of a minority already... ) so I think that some people might be afraid to label themselves as anything "less" than standard and binary.

[Guest Micha]

I think that sometimes there is this "nonbinaryphobia" (we need an official term for it) even in trans communities; the trans forum I was in before joining Laura's had some VERY nonbinaryphobic transwomen, and some of them were even intolerant of transwomen and transmen who didn't go "all the way" as if they were "fake".

I did question whether I was nonbinary or male for quite a while, but eventually I realized that I am male; a gender-variant male, but still a male.

I was a little afraid about the possibility of being nonbinary, I confess, because it's like being a minority of a minority of a minority, and I think I've already got plenty of minorities as it is (I'm a minority of a minority of a minority of a minority of a minority of a minority already... ) so I think that some people might be afraid to label themselves as anything "less" than standard and binary.

That makes sense. There's really not much done for anyone who doesn't fit into the binary (and the current system is so well established that it's really hard to consider anything outside of it). So being a part of something that gets little to no recognition, even if some places accept it, is scary and confusing.

The other part I think is how hard it is to understand. I've been asked "why not just be a feminine man? Why put a label on it with the stigma that comes with being transgender?" Truth is, I don't know. Maybe it's because the way things are, the way I feel and the way I'm treated so unsettle me that I need to understand why in order to find peace. Just accepting myself as a feminine type male is really no different than identifying as androgynous or gender queer, I'll still be in the same situation. Either way, I'm still transgender, and I still don't fit. The lack of understanding, the confusion and the complexity of it; I think that has a lot to do with how rare androgynes seem. I can definately see how people would pass over it because they don't even know of it, or have no idea what to make of it. In a black and white system, genderqueer seems to be the blurry grey areas.

[Guest AlexForever]

I also think that some people leave out nonbinaries when explaining stuff also because they are "more different" and therefore more difficult to explain, not only because of phobia or intolerance.

It's already quite difficult to get an average cisgender person to understand the concept of transsexuality and to explain that it is different from sexual orientation; non-binary identities are even more difficult to explain for an average cisgender person who never seriously thought about gender, and by the time you got them to grasp the concept of "transsexuality and sexual orientation are different things" often your brain is overloaded and you're just too tired to try and make them understand something even more complex.

It's not fair, I know; also, some people think that when you bring up non-binary identities you necessarily want to erase/eradicate binary identities, which is not true (some people want to eradicate the gender binary, but not all people; it's more a matter of it being a spectrum rather than a binary, which means that binary identities would still be recognized) so they get defensive; yes, especially transpeople do that

[Guest Chrysee]

Anyway - my apologies to you true androgyne people out there. And yes - there are probable crossovers. That is why a gender trained therapist is so important.

Lizzy

Okay, I don't know how to use the quote thingie, so I just edited your post, Lizzy.

You speak true. I cannot wait for my first GT appointment next month. I've said before that when I first arrived here (when I first came out) I just knew that there was a woman inside of me and suddenly all I wanted was to dress in skirts, slather on the make-up and be me. Then, I read a few posts by MTF's living full time and recoiled. That's not me. I would not want to live like that anymore than I would want to live 100% male. I was temporarily crushed. . .until I found the Andro forum. Like so many here, I'm masculine one day and fem. the next. I strive for a balance and yet prefer to play up my feminine side. I said before that those of us who started out male bodied prefer the feminine because that's what we were denied/denied ourselves. I believe that what really shocked my close friends to whom I first came out was that after just a few weeks, I was quite comfortable (and just a bit thrilled) to go out in drag (I call it 'getting my girlie on.') I recall the first night that I went out for dinner with my girlfriend and felt the wind blow through my skirt. I paused boarding the bus, as never in my life had I hiked my skirt up to climb a step. My girlfriend and I have had a very, very tough time of late. She's okay with it, and then not. And when she's so not okay with me, she cries and begs me not to let her stop me from transitioning. Now for a while I did just that and the other night she confronted me and so today, I am in make-up and it feels wonderful. I'm an illustrator and instead of Bristol board or my computer tablet, I'm painting my face. Same thing.

Anyway, I chimed in to agree with your statement regarding the importance of a G.T. I may be premature in saying that as I have yet to go, but based on the tons of advice that I've received here and my gut instinct, I just know that you're right.

Thanks,

Cissy

[Guest Chrysee]

Strange that this Topic came up. I am not an Androgyne - but am living that life by default (my stage in HRT). My very good friend Mia (who is angrogyne) and I havehad many discussions before she dropped out. I now have to admit I never believed her on androgynous living - thinking there was more to her than she knew - we had such similar needs and wants.

But I finally realized I was 100% wrong. We true transsexual seem to have a blind spot with androgyne people. Funny - of all people we should be more understanding!

Homophobia? Transphobia? - now non-bianary phobia? Or worse, androgynaphobia?

TOOOOO many labels - my head spins.

Anyway - my apologies to you true androgyne people out there. And yes - there are probable crossovers. That is why a gender trained therapist is so important.

And I miss Mia. I don't think she found what she needed here at Laura's - darn!

I would suggest you DO go to the GLBT meetings - get them to add the 'Q'. You need to educate us, just like we trans need to educate the gay community. (Gays don't undersyand transpeople - and I am sure if they can't undersand trans, they have no clue about androgyny!)

Great TOPIC.

Lizzy

Okay, maybe my painting doesn't resemble your avatar. Just a thought, By the way, I'm not good at preparing pics to be posted and hope that this works.

Cissy

[Guest BookOfXcentric]

Gender, Sexuality and romantic attraction are three seperate concepts. In theory it shouldn't be too hard to teach people this (my seven year old cousin understands it)

Gender = you can choose what you feel like but society will choose what it can see.

When I go out I get alot of stares and I can see the little wheels turning in people's heads, going "Boy? Girl?" and there are even those who get frustrated and look at me as if it is my fault they can't tell if I'm a boy or a girl.

I know alot of people who don't give a rats donkey about the binary (or maybe that is because I only make friends with them...)

This have taught me that society at large have a hard time accepting what they can't see or tell, if it isn't palpable then most will be skeptic to its existence.