Any studies controlled for sexual orientation?

[Sunchild]

There has been an ongoing argument that all studies on the sexually dimorphic nucleus in the pre-optic area of the brain determing who is trans have not been controlled for sexual orientation, is there any truth to that? This is why a significant amount of people out there used to believe all trans people are just gays, or erasing gays/lesbians, because our brain matches the one of homosexuals. I know it is nonsense, but I cant find any studies with regards to brain where they were controlling for sexual orientation, if you can find any, please share them.   

[VickySGV]

I just tracked down my references to this, and the ones I found with the terminology you use there simply state that these areas are the same in Straight, Gay, and Trans men, and the same in Straight, Lesbian, and Trans women. That would imply that the studies did include a control for sexual orientation.  My references are from professional papers of friends and acquaintances whom I trust to accurately report the findings on this. A common topic we discuss is the "moving goal post" standard of proof, where no matter how great the population in the study, it was never great enough to convince someone who wants to dismiss the accuracy of a scientific finding. 

[Rianon]

19 hours ago, Sunchild said:

\This is why a significant amount of people out there used to believe all trans people are just gays, or erasing gays/lesbians, because our brain matches the one of homosexuals.

Good morning, Sunchild and Vicky,

 

I hadn't expected I'd chime in on this. I'm neither a researcher nor a follower of such studies. The topic, however, certainly struck home. As a teen and young adult, somehow I inherited the then-widely-held belief that trans urges were little more than another manifestation of gay-ness. Consequently, I tried for decades to live a happy gay life. I struggled through two long-ish term gay relationship, each ending in heartache and confusion for both the partner and me.

 

Today, I view those decades as wasted decades. Back when I was a teen and young adult, if only I had known I wasn't gay but trans. If only …

 

Thanks for introducing this topic.

Cheers!

Rianon

 

 

 

[Dillon]

I  can't answer the question, which is important for our protection. It does lead to a thought I'd like to share, though. I identified as a lesbian for decades before I came out as trans. I wasn't exactly using transness to deny homosexual feelings, but the other way around. Of course, we know the logic of haters is not logical. I'm glad you are arguing the case. Each step we take is a step forward for everyone.

[VickySGV]

@DillonThe thing we have to keep in mind is that Gender Dysphoria/Trans Identity and Same Sex Romantic/Sexual Attraction are two distinctly separate phenomena.  The romantic attractions of Trans people themselves are all over the spectrum which exists even for Non-Trans people if they would just loosen up and lighten up, see the whole intergalactic joke, laugh at it, and let life be enjoyable. 

[Rianon]

1 hour ago, VickySGV said:

… if they would just loosen up and lighten up, see the whole intergalactic joke, laugh at it, and let life be enjoyable. 

 

Amen to that! 😊

[Charlize]

I know i struggled with this issue for years.  Wanting to live as a woman could only mean i was attracted to men.  Well i wasn't so i had to be crazy.  There were no models or at least society had hidden them away.  Perhaps that's what  would make  the right wing happy.  People come in all kinds of genders and sexualities which may change over time.  What a great "intergalactic" joke or ride, as Vicky noted.  Enjoy the differences and enjoy the ever-changing life we are given.  It might not always seem secure but it can be beautiful.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

[Dillon]

@VickySGVWell said. On a personal note, I had no idea what gender dysphoria was, and how much it confused my understanding of myself, until I joined a support group. 

[Rianon]

Dillon, Charlize

 

Here I am again peeking at this thread. I can't seem to not peek. 😉 And I dread having to call NYC and beg for my deadline to be extended. Silly me.

 

But what the two of you have just said had me paraphrasing Whitman: Folks like us contain multitudes, and yet we contain a singular self too, perhaps our most honest self, and we oftentimes spend decades trying to guide that honest self to the surface. 

 

(Okay, you ol' procrastinator you, back to work! Ha ha.)

 

Cheers!

Rianon

[Rianon]

4 hours ago, Charlize said:

Wanting to live as a woman could only mean i was attracted to men.

In my earliest years –– my preteen years, for the most part –– I hadn't yet realized that, in my innermost me, I was genuinely female, just misgendered at birth. As sexual awareness dawned on me –– nearing puberty, I would guess –– I found myself paying more attention to boys, although I yet to think of myself as gay. (Did I even know what gay was at that time?) I was also paying attention to girls, but chiefly for their attractiveness: the way they dressed, did their hair, spoke, moved about, and formed friendship circles I was allowed to't join. Dressing in my mom's clothes at home while she was at work, and later in my sister-in-law's clothes (which I much preferred: closer to my size, more stylish, etc.), and still not attaching any labels to myself –– straight, gay, trans, what-have-you –– I honestly thought all boys must be doing this at home (dressing in feminine things), and I came close to mentioning it some of my boy-classmates. (Thank goodness I didn't!) (Or maybe I should have. Who knows what might have been the outcome.) In any case, eventually I declared myself to be gay, and all this clandestine dressing … well, that must just part of what it's like to be gay. And so I doomed myself to two painful, puzzling gay relationships, all the while wondering why I was doing such a dismal job of being a gay man. Little did I know I was running full-speed-ahead on the wrong set of tracks. Today, I laugh –– and wince –– to think: All those wasted years!

 

Rianon

[VickySGV]

Gentle reminder, even to myself, (mea culpa) the OP was asking about specific scientific studies and how they were conducted for maximum validity.  The information they were seeking is about a specific region of the brain that has been found through non-invasive imaging to be of the same shape and relative size in Straight Men, Gay Men and Trans men, and where Lesbian, Straight and Trans women have the same basic brain region pattern. I have about 50+ Professional Medical papers, and one of them that I have read, but cannot just now find the one that discusses @Sunchild's direct question so I can link them to it.

[Davie]

Sexual Orientation Stats:

 

“The proportion of high school kids who identify as heterosexual dropped to about 75%, down from about 89% in 2015, when the CDC began asking about sexual orientation. Meanwhile, the share who identified as lesbian, gay or bisexual rose to 15%, up from 8% in 2015.”