Philosophy: When we die n heaven question

[missyjo]

hello friends 

I was pondering something..making my funeral plans since I'm not sure family will want to be bothered. it brings a question I have. 

 

I've heard that in heaven, all our ailments, the bad back, bum eyesight, amputated foot,..whatever, they are all restored to perfection n good as new in heaven. ok, maybe 

now I think many of us are on this journey to get our bodies to match our gender identity we believe ourselves to be.

 

so when we die, I'm MtF transgender..when I die, will I get a perfect M or F body in heaven?

 

no right or wrong answers..was just noodling it n thought I'd ask.

thanks friends

hugs

[VickySGV]

I have heard all the Best Guesses and none of them really hold for me as an attraction.  C.S. Lewis in The Great Divorce is my best impression of what could be.  We have to completely GIVE UP our ideas of bodily life and what is important to us now, even our speculations to embrace a reality beyond our comprehension,  thus, what I will look like now will ever fit.  Probably not really on your topic goal here, but---

[Dillon]

Only my own best understanding: The Bible speaks of a resurrection and many Christians feel this sounds like it is a resurrection on this earth. I recall that the Bible also speaks of the city of God, possibly as a place where we will dwell. I take all this as imagery to help us understand that all will be well instead of taking it literally. I am encouraged by a line that says something like, "He will wipe away every tear." Jesus came back in a body that appeared physical but also seemed to be more than that. The apostle Thomas was able to touch the risen Jesus' wounds (as many of us heard in church today coincidentally, so that's what comes to mind for me). What I take from all of it is that we will feel happy and in right relationship with each other, with our own selves, with all of creation, and with God. I don't think our minds can fully grasp what this will be like. As for the gender of my physical body, I personally believe everything that is important to me about who I am is cherished by God and will not be erased, even if it is transformed. My gender will be expressed in who I am after death, and that might or might not be in something that looks and feels like a physical body. Somehow, the fact that I am male will be included in who I am because that is core to me, but how that will be is not something I know.

[missyjo]

Vicky n Dillon

 

any answer n thoughts were welcomed  one is as right as next. thanks fir contributing

 

so, double or nothing, if there are physical bodies, n if we get our new bodies to enjoy our authentic selves  how do we relate to past spouses n partners?

 

just kicking it around. off to work n exercise

 

hugs all around

[Dillon]

Oh that's a fun question! For some reason I get a kick out of the time Jesus is asked if a woman's husband dies and she marries his brother and the brother dies and she marries the next brother, etc., who will be her husband in heaven. Jesus says in heaven they do not marry but are like the angels. Of course, that didn't clarify much for me.  I've had a few moments in prayer or just during my day where I felt certain that all will be well and nothing that is important to us will be lost or diminished. Everyone has a few moments like that through their lifetime, and it might be a glimpse of heaven. (I realize I'm not on your question anymore.) The thought that nothing that is important will be lost is what matters most to me.

 

So missyjo, what do you think about past partners? If you feel like saying. 

[missyjo]

Dillon,

that's fine sweetie.  it really was just a start solicitation of input type of question dear. 🙃 

 

past partners? I'm hoping they're there and it's sort of optional to interact or not. no interest in seeing 1st wife or most the girls or other trysts, but would very much like to reconnect with 2nd wife. she was a wonderful blessing I was lucky to enjoy. and I miss her dearly. 

 

how's that? not deeply philosophical but honest.

hugs

[Dillon]

Yes, I'm hoping that I will be with my late wife. Hugs back. 

 

[missyjo]

Dillon .

I'm sorry for your loss dear n hope you are with her after this world too. .

 

my pcp told me, n I think applies to us all, she's in heaven watching you, and she just wants you happy. she knows you did n still love her,  but if this will help you be happier please godspeed to you my love. I like to think the doc is right. for all of our sakes

hugs

[awkward-yet-sweet]

6 hours ago, missyjo said:

So when we die, I'm MtF transgender..when I die, will I get a perfect M or F body in heaven?

 

Honestly, I'm not sure!  I'm medically intersex and 46XX....part boy, part girl, and a wholotta confusion.  I guess I was supposed to be female but ended up wrong.  But I have faith, and I think not knowing and being OK with that can be a part of faith.  Will I end up in heaven as a boy or as a girl?  Honestly, it doesn't matter to me.  Because whatever I am in the *real life* that happens after this life, it will be the perfect form that God intended for me all along. 

 

This world is fallen.  Things aren't how they are supposed to be.  There's radiation.  Chemicals in the food and water.  Sin, depression, sickness, destruction.  After this life, all those wrong things go away.   It is perfect.  We have a loving Heavenly Father who will make sure that everything happens there for our good, better than we can imagine here. 

 

So I'm OK with whatever that looks like.  Actually, I think that looks and gender won't matter as much there.  It will be relationship and connection that matters the most.  All discomfort will be eliminated, all hesitancy and awkwardness will be gone.  Perfect acceptance. 

[Dillon]

54 minutes ago, missyjo said:

she just wants you happy.

I think so too. I'm also sorry for your loss. 

[missyjo]

thanks Dillon..90% of days I convince myself just focus on the blessing you had, not the loss. 90% it works, the other 10%, well, I'm sure you know dear. I'm sorry hugs

 

sweet, I like your outlook dear. you sound happy not binary so then in heaven I guess if we get bodies, you'd get the one you view as perfection. you're probably right though these bodies are temporary and up there is much better. hugs darling

[Vidanjali]

My perspective as a student of Vedanta. God is omnipresent & within all of us. Bodies give us the perception that we are separate from each other. All love for each other is essentially love of God. Heaven is absolute union with God. God is beyond material & beyond distinctions. Therefore embodiment is of the world process. 

 

On the other hand, as life in the world is experienced in a body - bodies separate from each other - giving the illusory perception we are separate from God, one concludes that embodiment is a cause of suffering. Yet, absolute union with God, and therefore with all those who seemed separate from us while embodied, is beyond suffering. 

[missyjo]

Vidanjali,

you're probably right dear

thank you

hugs

[Ivy]

20 hours ago, VickySGV said:

C.S. Lewis in The Great Divorce is my best impression of what could be.

I always appreciated Lewis' writing.  That is a good book, he was able to think outside the box.  From a biblical standpoint I'm not sure there would even be gender there.  It doesn't really seem necessary.  

In regards to a spouse, former of otherwise, it seems that even if there was no marriage in heaven, you would still have a special relationship based on your past (assuming you were both there and not in the other place)

I pretty much quit trying to figure it out and assumed "God" would sort things out.

[missyjo]

Vicky 

smiles. that may be best idea of all, just let God figure it out n be happy if you don't end up in eternal flames.  

hugs

[Charlize]

I'm not really worried about that aspect of after death.  The only way i've really considered it is to ask my son to use my present legal name on what ever monument (if any) and to add my dead name as well if he wishes.  Seems appropriate to include a dead name.:).  

I'm busy living this life now thanks to forces beyond me.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

[Ivy]

I'd kinda like to be composted, but I don't think that's legal in this state.

[missyjo]

laughs with ivy at composting

 

Charlize,  interesting..I have the stone already n had my dead name added to my side when I wasn't really actively searching for myself or showing missy  to others...

 

now I guess it's a courtesy to my already buried wife to use my dead name..but all of our journeys are different..if my facts were different, I'd probably elect something like what you've asked for.

 

may it be many years before it matters to any of us. hugs

[KathyLauren]

21 minutes ago, Ivy said:

I'd kinda like to be composted, but I don't think that's legal in this state.

 

Where I used to live, there was a "green cemetery", the first in the country.  No coffins, no embalming, no headstones.  You get wrapped in a biodegradable shroud and planted.  That's it.  It's quite popular there.

[Astrid]

My spouse and I are seriously contemplating this. It's legal in Massachusetts.  But have a backup plan; green burials can only be done here within the first 4 days after death, which obviously one can't guarantee due to travel, vacations,  etc.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

10 hours ago, Vidanjali said:

My perspective as a student of Vedanta. God is omnipresent & within all of us. Bodies give us the perception that we are separate from each other. All love for each other is essentially love of God. Heaven is absolute union with God. God is beyond material & beyond distinctions. Therefore embodiment is of the world process. 

 

On the other hand, as life in the world is experienced in a body - bodies separate from each other - giving the illusory perception we are separate from God, one concludes that embodiment is a cause of suffering. Yet, absolute union with God, and therefore with all those who seemed separate from us while embodied, is beyond suffering. 

 

I both agree and disagree.  In heaven we'll definitely be as close to absolute union with God as we can get.

 

However, for most Christians, we believe from Scripture that we will have bodies in the life to come.  In Colossians 1:18, Jesus is referred to as the "firstborn from the dead."  His resurrection is the pattern for the rest of us, and the body He displayed after His resurrection showed the features the we'll have.  People living at the time saw Him and testified to the fact - the 12 disciples, and outer circle of about 70, and even 500 people at once.  The resurrection was a physical thing.  For example, he was recognizable to His friends, but also different enough that He was sometimes mistaken, like when Mary Magdalene first saw Him in the garden on Easter morning.  He was touchable, as shown by the story of "doubting" Thomas.  He was also able to eat, shown by cooking and eating breakfast with His disciples one morning on the shore of the Sea of Galilee.  Yet apparently He was able to appear in the middle of the locked Upper Room, and vanish instantly at dinner with the disciples he walked with on the road to Emmaus.  So perhaps the resurrection body will have some cool abilities we don't currently possess. 

 

The life to come will also be physical.  A return to Eden but bigger.  God's original creation of plants, animals, and the human body was glorious and perfect.  He will return things to His original intent.  According to what was revealed to the Apostle John, God will create a new Heaven AND a new Earth.  And as Earth gets remade, there's no more sea.  This makes a lot of sense, in that currently Earth is 3/4 water, but a planet without the ocean would have space for all the believers who have ever lived.  The description of Heaven (kind of like a golden Borg cube), is placed as the "New Jerusalem."  So I'm guessing that Heaven is kind of like the capital city of the new Earth.  And we'll have things to do.  Contrary to the euphemism, the "world's oldest profession" is Agriculture.  Just like before the fall into sin, there will be work to do.  The life to come isn't like one long church service.  Sure there will be singing and gathering and thanksgiving, but I think life and work and worship will be blended together seamlessly.  Adam and Eve were given the garden in Eden, and also told to fill the Earth and subdue it.  I'm really looking forward to that...imagine gardening without weeds!  Fruit trees without pests!  And all seasons filled with planting, harvest, abundance, and joy. 

 

We'll know each other, and we'll have relationships.  Although perhaps we won't be married or having sex, since the Scripture says that we'll be "like the angels."  Not angels, as some think, but at least like them in that way.  I think the reason for no marriage or sex is that those things on Earth are intended to be a picture of God's love for His people.  In the life to come, we'll be with God all the time and so the picture isn't needed anymore.  Since there's no sadness or bad feelings in the life to come, apparently we won't need that kind of partnership....or whatever we need, God will give that to us.  I accept that I don't understand that aspect right now, and my husband has reassured me that even in the life to come, we'll probably be sharing a den together with our partners. 

 

We face so many struggles in life, including discomfort with our bodies, dysphoria, and discrimination.  In the life to come, those things are fixed.  We can trust that, and give thanks for that.  I find the greatest hope and peace when I think about it.