Post Consult - At the Full/Limited Depth Decision Point

[Charleigh Dakota]

Hi, I am at the point where I need to decide between limited or full depth vaginoplasty and Im kinda torn tbh. I know what I want and why I want it but I just dont know if the post-op unknown will be worth what I get in return or not. If anyone has had either of these surgeries and would be willing to talk with me about it...I would greatly appreciate it so much!!

 

Thanks!!

 

Charleigh

[KathyLauren]

It can be a tough choice.  I went with the limited depth version.  I scheduled a couple of sessions with my therapist to discuss the choice, and it was time and money well-spent.

 

Here is how my reasoning went... 

 

I knew that I would never want a penis anywhere near my genitals, so having a full-depth vagina for that reason was pointless.  I also knew that I did not want to have to do all the dilation required for the full-depth version. 

 

There is something to be said for "completeness".  Having the full set of equipment that cis women have is good for "passing" if the Blue Meanies ever do an examination at that level of detail.  But realistically, that won't happen.  (I'd be up on charges of assaulting a police officer long before any examination got to that point!) 

 

Which leaves the only plausible reason for me to want full depth would be if (a) my marriage were to break down, and (b) I were to meet another woman and have a sexual relationship, and (c) that woman wanted to play with my vagina.  That is a lot of 'if's.  Any prospective partner would have to deal with some oddities about me anyway, due to being trans, so what's one more?  That last point was my therapist's contribution, and it ended my last remaining doubt.

 

I am not going to try to persuade you one way or another.  I just offer my own thought process in case there's something in there that you can relate to.

[Charleigh Dakota]

1 hour ago, KathyLauren said:

It can be a tough choice.  I went with the limited depth version.  I scheduled a couple of sessions with my therapist to discuss the choice, and it was time and money well-spent.

 

Here is how my reasoning went... 

 

I knew that I would never want a penis anywhere near my genitals, so having a full-depth vagina for that reason was pointless.  I also knew that I did not want to have to do all the dilation required for the full-depth version. 

 

There is something to be said for "completeness".  Having the full set of equipment that cis women have is good for "passing" if the Blue Meanies ever do an examination at that level of detail.  But realistically, that won't happen.  (I'd be up on charges of assaulting a police officer long before any examination got to that point!) 

 

Which leaves the only plausible reason for me to want full depth would be if (a) my marriage were to break down, and (b) I were to meet another woman and have a sexual relationship, and (c) that woman wanted to play with my vagina.  That is a lot of 'if's.  Any prospective partner would have to deal with some oddities about me anyway, due to being trans, so what's one more?  That last point was my therapist's contribution, and it ended my last remaining doubt.

 

I am not going to try to persuade you one way or another.  I just offer my own thought process in case there's something in there that you can relate to.

Thank you Kathy for your great insight...and yes, I am not looking for persuasion...just stuff like what you just posted...just others thoughts and experiences. So, while I am different in regards to the penis thing...being that I am mostly lesbian but still occasionally desire real penis....and of course want to be able to take my female partner's "penis" in full capacity....I fear it wont be worth the cons of full vs limited....like, atm, I have zero sex drive but I have this deep desire to fully experience full vaginal sex with a male...as if I was in fact born cis instead. I feel like I would be missing out on an experience other cis girls get to have. So I feel like I would miss something....it may not be anything I actually enjoy but in my former life, I enjoyed being submissive to men anally and I believe I would enjoy the same vaginally. But...there is the risk of complications and the recovery and dilation to deal with...and I just dont know if its worth it because I dont know what I am really potentially facing post-op  I guess....Also, to me...if I dont have a full vagina...I know I wont feel complete....but at nearly 50....how important is that...really?

 

Im also curious....what exactly is different about a vagina and a neo-vagina in regards to appearance and how a male partner may notice its not a natural vagina....like, does it feel different to them? Like, if I dont tell them I was AMAB....how would they ever know?? Are there obvious signs???

[KatieSC]

Hi Charly

 

I opted for full-depth. There is an old adage that I learned from years in public safety: "Remember your basic equipment. It is better to have it and not need it, rather than needing it and not having it."

 

I guess it depends on your version of how you see yourself. For me, it was a non-starter. I always envisioned having a vagina, and it is like my brain was wired from conception. It feels natural to me having a vagina. I am not interested in sexual relations with a woman, but I could easily envision myself with a guy. Without having a vagina, having sex with a guy is not going to likely be all that great. 

 

As for the complications, anybody can have a complication with any procedure. The key is finding a surgeon who is well-skilled and has a good reputation. Like anything, there are some really good folks, and folks you would rather not go to. Both the penile-inversion and peritoneal pull-through procedures are common, and have a good record of success. There is one method that I would not recommend, and it is not being offered much, and that is the coloplasty version where they use a piece of colon to provide vaginal depth. This results in a lot of secretions, and may not be pleasant. Some surgeons will only use this procedure if the other methods fail to achieve adequate depth. 

 

Regarding sex drive, that may be an effect of your hormone levels, and you may find that it varies in time. You have a number of choices. 

[Charleigh Dakota]

Thank you everyone for such great responses to my post!! I know without doubt, which is how I made my final decision, that I need a full depth....not even so much for sexual reasons....just that I, for as long as I can recall, had frequently saw a cis girl body when I looked at myself in the mirror...had numerous wonderful dreams I was born cis female and I have on  many occasions partaken (in the past before I knew the dangers of toxic shock syndrome) of "female hygiene" practices in the only available way. I did these things periodically, amongst other types of cis female vagina related activities because it made me feel like a girl...like myself. Just like I thought for many years I had sex with guys because I liked anal sex or because I was "heteroflexible"....but since coming out to myself...I realize I had sex with guys as a "guy" not because of the sex itself but because giving my body to someone in that way made me feel like a "real girl"...taking a man inside of me and being submissive to him in that way made me feel so good inside...I did always find it interesting that as much as I psychologically enjoyed the penetrative sex with a male....I always felt "gross" after the act...like it was "wrong" (By no means am I implying that male/male sex or relationships are "wrong"....it just felt wrong to me...as in just not what was suppose to happen). Dont get me wrong, I did enjoy the physical aspect of it during the act but in retrospect, I have learned that it was the emotional and psychological closeness to my inner girl that was the true driving factor in my decisions to have sex with males. So between that and the many years of visualizing, imagining, dreaming and picturing myself with a vagina instead....as a cis girl...wishing many times that I would have an accident that would remove my penis so a vagina could be put there instead...and daydreaming while watching movies about "switching bodies" (cant remember the name but it was a mom and daughter swap)...that made me really wish I could just flip a light switch or go to bed and wake up as a girl...many, many, many times did I dream of this...both while awake and while asleep. These are just some examples of why I know without question that like Hannah said "Its better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it"....I know...that even if I never had penetrative sex ever again....I would not feel truly complete....like the girl I have always imagined myself as...unless I opted for the surgery that would bring me as close to being as much like a cis girl as medical science could possibly bring me.

 

My only concern is post op life...I guess...but I guess nobody really knows this whether they have surgery, HRT or are even trans for that matter...but I do know that, as I told my lovely wife, Id rather live as a girl...physically and all...for one day than another hundred years with a damn penis!!

 

So the choice is easy for me now that I have finally be real with myself... Im just excited to learn what I can about what to expect post-op...how's life as a post-op trans female different than for a cis female....mostly vaginally...cosmetically, etc...as well as sexually speaking....like, how much "different" or how "close" will I be to a cis female...??

[missyjo]

On 2/15/2024 at 7:06 PM, Charleigh Dakota said:

Hi, I am at the point where I need to decide between limited or full depth vaginoplasty and Im kinda torn tbh. I know what I want and why I want it but I just dont know if the post-op unknown will be worth what I get in return or not. If anyone has had either of these surgeries and would be willing to talk with me about it...I would greatly appreciate it so much!!

 

Thanks!!

 

Charleigh

hello. I am also pondering this choice...I want a full depth n yes I like girls more but I do wish to experience penis insertion n ejaculate inside..blush..the scary part is the recovery sound so much worse for full depth

 

I asked if I could get zero depth n then add canal later...I was thinking zero depth woukd be 4 weeks n then adding canal would be another 6 to 8 weeks later...nope

n I think was told..8 weeks recovery for zero depth..n still 8 to 12 weeks for canal addition..which it sounds like 12 weeks recovery from penis to full depth  so that almost negates value of zero depth..though I could hide 8 weeks vacation easier than 12..

 

hope this helps

missy 

 

 

[Ashley0616]

I would love full depth because I wouldn't want to ruin sex for my partner by limiting it to one. Then again who knows if I'll find a guy or a girl or a bachelorette for the rest of my life.

[missyjo]

Ashley

I hear the joy of being bi is they are happy no matter whose pants they get into

winks n giggles 

 

actually  the thought of top n bottom n ffs n all this..n then not be..completely..working? that bugs me..

 

hugs

[Ashley0616]

1 hour ago, missyjo said:

Ashley

I hear the joy of being bi is they are happy no matter whose pants they get into

winks n giggles 

 

actually  the thought of top n bottom n ffs n all this..n then not be..completely..working? that bugs me..

 

hugs

I just wanted to be handled roughly! 🤠Whew I better stop!

[missyjo]

smiles a knowing smile n winks

 

hugs

[Charleigh Dakota]

On 3/14/2024 at 4:26 PM, missyjo said:

hello. I am also pondering this choice...I want a full depth n yes I like girls more but I do wish to experience penis insertion n ejaculate inside..blush..the scary part is the recovery sound so much worse for full depth

 

I asked if I could get zero depth n then add canal later...I was thinking zero depth woukd be 4 weeks n then adding canal would be another 6 to 8 weeks later...nope

n I think was told..8 weeks recovery for zero depth..n still 8 to 12 weeks for canal addition..which it sounds like 12 weeks recovery from penis to full depth  so that almost negates value of zero depth..though I could hide 8 weeks vacation easier than 12..

 

hope this helps

missy 

 

 

I struggled with this recovery issue myself...but the logic I used was ..... once the recovery is complete....its COMPLETE and the reward is far worth the cost to me. Why go through any recovery at all if it is not for what you are truly wanting..that seems like a wasted time, money and effort situation...why suffer for a less than desirable reward?

[Charleigh Dakota]

On 3/14/2024 at 5:08 PM, Ashley0616 said:

I would love full depth because I wouldn't want to ruin sex for my partner by limiting it to one. Then again who knows if I'll find a guy or a girl or a bachelorette for the rest of my life.

Better to have and not need than need and not have

[KathyLauren]

41 minutes ago, Hannah Renee said:

I'm assuming a full vaginoplasty in most cases requires it.

 

I think that surgeons who don't require electrolysis of the genital area do a follicle scrape as part of the procedure.  A follicle scrape is a surgical technique for permanent removal of hair.  Dr. Brassard, for example, does not require electrolysis even for full-depth vaginoplasty.  He is confident that he can remove most of the hair where it is necessary.

 

However, if he misses a few hair follicles, that is a problem.  You don't want hairs inside the vagina, and electrolysis would be difficult or impossible after the fact..  So, for peace of mind, most of his patients getting full-depth will typically get electrolysis done ahead of time, as a kind of belt-and-suspenders insurance.

 

I didn't bother with electrolysis before my zero-depth procedure.  The follicle scrape did remove the hair that should have been removed.

[KatieSC]

There has been some debate over electrolysis versus laser. If the hair is dark, then laser can work. Studies have demonstrated that laser can be just as effective. Brassard is known for not requiring the genital electrolysis. I had genital electrolysis, and I continue to get facial electrolysis. The biggest problem that most trans women face is the cost of electrolysis, which is compounded with the addition and administration of medication to numb the areas. I found the anesthetic creams were next to worthless, and yet, others report it goes great.

 

My surgeon advocated the genital electrolysis, and also did a follicle scrape. You should have a discussion with your surgeon about how all of this will go. As for the issue of electrolysis, some of the insurance companies will cover genital electrolysis, and some will even cover facial electrolysis. The issue is that most of the insurance companies are unaware that you will likely need anesthetic medications to facilitate the electrolysis. Once they understand this, and also understand that there are only about 4 places in the US that will do electrolysis with anesthetic administration, they may pay for the treatment. It is certainly a good discussion to have with the insurance company beforehand. 

[missyjo]

On 3/17/2024 at 1:39 PM, Charleigh Dakota said:

Better to have and not need than need and not have

darling I completely agree. but it will need road testing I'd think. 

 

and I recently asked a surgeon about an idea I had for easier recovery...do a zero depth 1st..recover then add a canal..he said NO. this surgery is hard enough on body to recover, do not do it any more than needed. also said penile inversion usually is sufficient n includes a few centimeters of perineum tissue anyway..so keep the perineum pull through as a reserve technique in case there is a problem with theb penile inversion. 

 

hugs to any who want them