Are you comfortable enough to be an activist for LGBTQ+ community?

[tracy_j]

19 hours ago, Betty K said:

Everyone I ever meet knows I'm trans; there's no hiding it. Are you suggesting I should just try to blend in and not cause trouble in case I draw even more attention to what everyone can see already? Also there are other kinds of trans people than mtf or ftm.

The trans people I was stating were the commonly quoted. In effect I am in one of those other categories but my thoughts still stand.

 

In my view it's not really a case of blending in though. I tend to think about things. One of my thoughts has been to look throught the eyes of a woman. Getting up every morning. Putting my clothes on (female) and going out. Am I seen as trans? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I don't really know. I just dress in the morning and live out my day. Yes I can be nervous. I'm that sort of person. When I think about it may cis women are self conscious too. Maybe not the same things but to the same effect. If I had been born female would it really have changed my world as regards being accepted as a person or would it have just brought other worries of equal magnitude?

 

There will always be  haters and agressive activism will only be fuel to their fire. In my experience the key is not to just blend in but to be yourself and chat to others as youself. Yes, that probably means you blend into your position in society but the only other option is to be outside.

 

Locally I look around me and hear what people say about different minorities. They are upset and even, at times, afraid of even speaking anything negative at times for fear of ending up in court. It is possible to get a prison sentence for anti trans speech and there are those who would attempt to achieve this end in the name of activism. The same is true with other minority groups. I suppose a worry I see, which luckily or otherwise I don't really have the option of locally, is that trans groups banding together in activism will be seen as a dangerous faction whereas an individual getting along (openly) with their life will not.

 

In my view many of the comments being made actually almost admit defeat as soon as they are made. Legeslation does not change the people. Only the people will do that. A big stick will only prompt an even bigger one.

 

Tracy

 

 

 

 

[Betty K]

12 minutes ago, tracy_j said:

In my experience the key is not to just blend in but to be yourself and chat to others as youself.

 

Phew, well we can agree on the "be yourself" bit! And yes, chatting to others as yourself; in my experience that is so crucial. My sense is that, on the whole, people warm to me far more now that I am out of the closet than they ever did before when I was hiding.

[Sally Stone]

7 hours ago, Betty K said:

My sense is that, on the whole, people warm to me far more now that I am out of the closet than they ever did before when I was hiding.

Betty, this has been my experience as well.  I think the one thing that helps civilians warm to me more than anything is my self-confidence.  When they detect that I'm comfortable being me, they tend to comfortable as well.  Friendly smiles, eye contact, and pleasant hellos reinforce my comfort and confidence and they go a long way towards ensuring people can be okay with who I am, even if they don't fully understand why I am who I am.   

[Betty K]

For anyone still reading this thread after that long and tense digression, I just want to add something: I suspect that it's mostly younger trans folk, especially non-binary folk, who are being implicitly criticised in these kinds of conversations about "blending in". Here are some reasons why young trans and non-binary folk might choose to dress in distinctive ways:

 

1. It sends a message to other queer and trans folk. It helps them find their tribe. If you go to a suburban supermarket and there's another kid with coloured hair there, chances are that kid is queer, or at least sympathetic to queerness.

 

2. It's a point of difference from cis folk that helps get the message across that you're not like them. In some situations this may be the difference between being misgendered and being asked what your pronouns are.

 

3. If gender is a social construct then these kids are constructing new forms of gender. They are helping to break down the gender binary. This is brave and valuable work. I think we should celebrate them for it, not complain that they're rocking the boat.

 

I presume that not everyone in this thread is critical of other trans folks' appearance and I apologise if I'm lecturing atm. I am just sad that no-one chimed in with me on this topic, and that it has popped up in two other threads recently and no-one chimed in then either. Imho criticising other trans folks' appearance, for whatever reason, can only sow discord in the community.

 

I'll shut up now unless anyone wants to discuss this further.

 

[Betty K]

19 hours ago, Sally Stone said:

I think the one thing that helps civilians warm to me more than anything is my self-confidence.  When they detect that I'm comfortable being me, they tend to comfortable as well.

 

That's good to hear Sally. In my case I'm sure self-confidence is part of it, but honestly, people just approach me sometimes before I've even had a chance to speak. I think partly they are just thrilled that people like us exist and are brave enough to be out in the open. I think they're happy that the culture is changing. And I think they like pretty things and bright colours as much as I do.

[Ivy]

21 hours ago, Sally Stone said:

Betty, this has been my experience as well. 

It's kinda this way for me also.  Some people are friendly, most simply indifferent.  I seldom run into actual hostility.  This makes all the ani-trans rhetoric more puzzling.

As has been pointed out, most of the anti-trans fanatics don't actually know any trans people.

 

My "activism" mostly consists of just being visible.

[Ashley0616]

Well if I can't be a board member at Gulf Coast Equality there is another group for trans people in Mississippi that I can be a board member so I hope that it'll work out. I just want to be able to serve and do something other than just church. If it works out maybe I'll make it official and get business cards to make it look official!

[VickySGV]

1 hour ago, Ashley0616 said:

Well if I can't be a board member at Gulf Coast Equality there is another group for trans people in Mississippi that I can be a board member so I hope that it'll work out. I just want to be able to serve and do something other than just church.

 

Warning about being on the Board Of Directors of a non-profit organization. Most require a certain level of financial contribution from a Director.  Luckily, I have been able to afford to do it, but others would be in trouble.  The tax write-offs for me do help me that way.

 

What LGBTQ Centers really need and appreciate are volunteers that can help with programs they are putting on from planning all the way through.  They also need volunteers for Self Help Group moderation or even room set-up or coffee making.  Committee members for doing decorations, or providing operation of sound or video systems or even in-house computer networks.  (I have had to repair or assemble donated furniture items a couple of times).  Others can go as far as needing mentors for all ages of people in job skills development, or paralegal volunteers to fill out documents for name and birth certificate changes.  You name it, a job you can fit in will be there according to your family budget.  The fellowship and community with all the others L or G or B or T and all is not something I even got in a more Cis/Het groupings.

[Ashley0616]

22 minutes ago, VickySGV said:

 

Warning about being on the Board Of Directors of a non-profit organization. Most require a certain level of financial contribution from a Director.  Luckily, I have been able to afford to do it, but others would be in trouble.  The tax write-offs for me do help me that way.

 

What LGBTQ Centers really need and appreciate are volunteers that can help with programs they are putting on from planning all the way through.  They also need volunteers for Self Help Group moderation or even room set-up or coffee making.  Committee members for doing decorations, or providing operation of sound or video systems or even in-house computer networks.  (I have had to repair or assemble donated furniture items a couple of times).  Others can go as far as needing mentors for all ages of people in job skills development, or paralegal volunteers to fill out documents for name and birth certificate changes.  You name it, a job you can fit in will be there according to your family budget.  The fellowship and community with all the others L or G or B or T and all is not something I even got in a more Cis/Het groupings.

Thankfully both groups are funded federal and I think state too. 

[MaeBe]

On 3/2/2024 at 7:21 AM, Betty K said:

3. If gender is a social construct then these kids are constructing new forms of gender. They are helping to break down the gender binary. This is brave and valuable work. I think we should celebrate them for it, not complain that they're rocking the boat.

This is where I am at. I see the binary as self-defeating for humanity; propagating the "might makes right" axiom implicitly, which will end us as a species. Boys are strong and emotionless warriors. Girls are nurturing baby-makers. These walls are constantly knocked down, but then rebuilt by those that see the world as an us-vs-them fight. So there is constant work to be done and I am heartened by how the youth have embraced a more gender-less outlook. Sadly, many will slowly be indoctrinated or swayed as time goes on by the natural progression of life that (at least in Western cultures) has us care inwardly. Not in-so-far as to be bigots and phobic, but you get the idea.

 

On 3/2/2024 at 7:21 AM, Betty K said:

I am just sad that no-one chimed in with me on this topic, and that it has popped up in two other threads recently and no-one chimed in then either.

This has been a far-ranging discussion; there's been "activists" as militants and actual militarized youth, how to engage in civilized discourse in a polarized country, varying degrees of desire/want/need for stealth, the passive desire to propagate the gender binary, engagement in society organizationally as well as passive societal engagement as the self, and more. I agree, however, people are people. So why should it be, you and I should get along so awfully? (Not you, @Betty K 😉, the world)

 

💜Mae

[awkward-yet-sweet]

On 3/2/2024 at 7:21 AM, Betty K said:

1. It sends a message to other queer and trans folk. It helps them find their tribe. If you go to a suburban supermarket and there's another kid with coloured hair there, chances are that kid is queer, or at least sympathetic to queerness.

 

2. It's a point of difference from cis folk that helps get the message across that you're not like them. In some situations this may be the difference between being misgendered and being asked what your pronouns are.

 

3. If gender is a social construct then these kids are constructing new forms of gender. They are helping to break down the gender binary. This is brave and valuable work. I think we should celebrate them for it, not complain that they're rocking the boat.

 

Ok, I'll go there.  Yes, I do believe there are some appearance issues going on.  I know a lot of people stand out in public because they are "just being themselves."  I question whether folks (generally speaking) realize there's a difference between individuality and attention-seeking behavior?  I feel like the younger generation is constantly seeking attention, whether through online content or very non-conforming appearance.  Why are people surprised when they get negative attention when attention is what they have sought?  Why are people surprised when their own voluntary actions place them in the category of "other" and then they get treated as "other?" 

I understand that not all things are chosen.  I wish that society was more understanding.  But when people have a choice and then experience consequences due to that choice, why not choose differently?  At least for a while? 

 

We don't get to control other people, but we can (somewhat) control ourselves.  I deal with the appearance issue in my own life.  I'm much more comfortable simply without clothes.  In summer, I'd prefer to wear nothing at all.  What kind of attention would I get if I went to the grocery store like that?  Probably negative.  I don't believe there's anything wrong with the human body, nor do I like that people disagree with me.  But I throw on a shirt and shorts and I conform, at least minimally.  I dress in a way that I don't really get noticed.  I can go shirtless because I never grew female breasts, and I pass (sort of) in my boy form.  If I had been otherwise, I probably couldn't pass shirtless.  Privilege?  Maybe.  But I'm also dealing with reality as it is, rather than trying to force it to be what I would prefer.  Maybe I push the boundaries a little, but I stop short of encountering resistance.

 

Gender is part social, part biological (physical.) If it wasn't partly physical, people wouldn't be getting gender-affirming surgery.  Cis folks are the majority, and so the majority is inherently binary.  I'd like to see trans activists putting less emphasis on fighting the traditional binary view.  Binary works for the majority of people, and I believe it is how God created human life.  I've encountered folks who go so far as to claim the binary view is wrong and try to tear it down.  I don't desire to "break the binary," as to me that seems like a negative attack. 

Being positive and constructive is better.  I want to construct flexibility and breathing room, and I think we're mostly there.  I don't feel like I have to fight most people's nature to be able to have my own. 

 

I'd prefer to see an emphasis on flexibility and tolerance.  Accept other people's family structures, and have yours accepted.  I feel like there's lip service given towards that sort of tolerance, but it isn't being practiced.

[Birdie]

I wasn't going to say anything, but 'passing privilege' was brought up earlier. 

 

I struggled for 45 years to pass as male, and can understand how frustrating trying to pass can be. Here is what my chest looks like:

It was by no means a privilege whilst in 'boy-mode'! I was forced into being trans (boy-mode) by a birth certificate and family that couldn't see me for who I am. 

 

I don't consider myself trans now since I do have some female parts and the body to match. I'm just being 'who I am', and my body type well agrees with it. 'Passing' as my female self is not a privilege, but rather just being true to myself. 

 

Having played both sides of the fence, I personally find that 'not rocking the boat' to be easier option. I used that technique in boy-mode, and I continue to do so in girl-mode as well. 

 

Ask for attention, and you will find it. Avoid making a scene, and even a 'boy' with large breasts will go without incident. 

 

I'm just an activist with my votes. 

[MaeBe]

5 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

I've encountered folks who go so far as to claim the binary view is wrong and try to tear it down.

Inherently the binary is wrong, insofar as there are people on this forum that prove it is. What is the real benefit of a strictly binary gender system? There are quite a few people in this thread who have deep-seeded adherence to the gender binary and that is fine, but they would really like to no be persecuted--just like those vocal "kids" that vehemently fight for their rights. They may be proud queer folk and strongly advocate for people to be free of the yolk of a social structure created to ensure the conservation of masculine power, but to say they should sit down, take it, try to blend in, because society is doing so well by them is a bit tone deaf.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

37 minutes ago, MaeBe said:

Inherently the binary is wrong, insofar as there are people on this forum that prove it is.

 

One might argue that we're actually the exception that proves the rule.  There's beginning to be evidence for how trans folks become who we are (physically) with effects from chemicals, etc.  I hope for the day when some class-action lawsuits come out that bring the issue into public consciousness. 

 

I feel that taking the position that "the binary is wrong" is a great way to alienate us from 95% of society, ending up with more conflict rather than less.  It seems to me that there's a difference between wanting to avoid persecution and just live our lives, vs. changing the nature of the world for everybody.  Of course, that's just my guess, based on talking to people around me. 

 

If some activists want to oppose what reality is for a majority of humanity, I don't see it succeeding.  In fact, I feel like it is really counterproductive.  It could be creating hate and opposition where such previously didn't exist.  I think we can get a lot of what we want by communicating in a different way.  I prefer to say that I'm different, that I'm not normal and that I'm OK with that...and that my not being normal is not my own choice, but something that happened to me.  I think average people can understand that.  I think there's a way to create personal freedom from social structure, without trying to undo the social structure that most folks are comfortable with. 

[Betty K]

15 minutes ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

One might argue that we're actually the exception that proves the rule.  There's beginning to be evidence for how trans folks become who we are (physically) with effects from chemicals, etc.

That does not explain the many gender-diverse peoples, spread across the planet, who lived prior to industrialisation. 
 

What does it actually cost cis folks to accept that gender is a spectrum? Absolutely nothing, so far as I can see. Anyone who identifies as man or woman can continue to do so. All they will be doing is acknowledging that non-binary genders exist and are valid.

[MaeBe]

Trans people exist and have existed for millennia, they didn't have access to medications or safe medical procedures until very recently but they've always existed...long before forever chemicals, "chemtrails", and Monsanto. Just because trans people are a minority doesn't mean they need to be fixed. "Breaking the binary" doesn't mean eliminating binary people, you do realize that right? It means accepting a broader interpretation of gender that encompasses all people and not just the ones that live in harmony with what a doctor saw between their legs.

[Betty K]

13 hours ago, MaeBe said:

So there is constant work to be done and I am heartened by how the youth have embraced a more gender-less outlook.

Yay! Thanks for your comment MaeBe. 
 

As to this far-ranging discussion, while I disagree with anyone who thinks activism per se is the wrong way to proceed, I can at least understand why certain aggressive forms of activism might alienate people. But I don’t understand why any trans person would want to complain about how other trans folk dress. That is where I draw the line. 

[Betty K]

4 minutes ago, MaeBe said:

"Breaking the binary" doesn't mean eliminating binary people, you do realize that right? It means accepting a broader interpretation of gender that encompasses all people and not just the ones that live in harmony with what a doctor saw between their legs.

Exactly.

[Birdie]

Judaism has realised that there are 6 genders for almost 3000 years. They have recently added 2 more making the total to be 8. 

 

The 'two gender system' seems to be quite modern, and absolutely wrong. It is however taught to the general population since our youth.  

 

Intersex has been a condition since man has existed, as well as other conditions. The Sages strived to understand it and wrote about it. 

 

'Modern' society has forgotten the past. 

 

Unfortunately, a small percentage of the population (us) will have a very hard time convincing the majority of the population that their views are wrong. I don't see things ending well with speaking out. We can already see the counter moves by law makers as activists get louder here in the US. 

[Birdie]

Just too add that the 'very strict' 'two gender' belief system here in the US might be leftovers from the Puritans that basically 'burned at the stake' anything they didn't understand or fit their beliefs. 

 

It seems other countries are much more accepting with the exception of the West and East coast here in the states. 

[Birdie]

There used to be a trans worker at mall here in Texas. She obviously didn't have 'passing privilege'. She wore makeup and skirts almost daily and was very bold. I unfortunately watched her get verbally assaulted almost every time I went to the mall, and her stand was just a stones throw away from the police/security station. They of course did nothing whilst she was verbally assaulted. 

 

What happens in California and New York isn't what happens in other parts of the country. 

 

Some areas are safer than others, my neck of the woods is not safe to be an activist. 

[Betty K]

2 hours ago, Birdie said:

The 'two gender system' seems to be quite modern, and absolutely wrong.

 

I'm glad we can agree on that, Birdie.

 

2 hours ago, Birdie said:

It is however taught to the general population since our youth.  

 

This is not the case everywhere. Clearly there are schools throughout the States, as well as here in Australia, where binary gender is not taught, and that is a big part of why the conservatives are so angry.

 

2 hours ago, Birdie said:

Unfortunately, a small percentage of the population (us) will have a very hard time convincing the majority of the population that their views are wrong. I don't see things ending well with speaking out. We can already see the counter moves by law makers as activists get louder here in the US. 

 

There is a backlash happening, that's for sure, especially in your part of the world. Does that mean it's time to stop insisting that certain truths are acknowledged? I can understand why, in Texas, you might think so, and I don't blame you. I'm just asking for some understanding, empathy and tolerance for those who disagree. Gender-diverse people have been systematically abused for hundreds of years, and our histories largely erased. Finally, in the last few decades, there has been real progress. I don't think it makes sense to give up now. But then, I have the privilege of living in a safer country. I remember when it wasn't so safe though.

 

1 hour ago, Birdie said:

There used to be a trans worker at mall here in Texas. She obviously didn't have 'passing privilege'. 

 

I can see this saying really stuck with you. I only mentioned it because I felt that if those who can blend in are judging those who can't, then they should acknowledge that being able to blend in is a privilege. 

 

To me, that woman at the mall sounds courageous.

 

 

 

[Birdie]

15 minutes ago, Betty K said:

 

I can see this saying really stuck with you. I only mentioned it because I felt that if those who can blend in are judging those who can't, then they should acknowledge that being able to blend in is a privilege. 

 

To me, that woman at the mall sounds courageous.

 

 

 

I didn't 'blend in' for 45 years of my life. Whilst in boy-mode I endured many snare remarks about my wide hips and obvious breasts. Even the way I walked was ridiculed. I do understand what it's like not to 'blend in'. 

 

I just tried my best to not raise a fuss about it and keep to myself. I avoided many confrontations by doing so, but not all off them. 

 

Fortunately in girl-mode I go unnoticed. Very few people know I'm intersex and just assume I'm cis female. I really don't want to have that discussion with everyone I meet anyways. 

 

I'm not putting the trans woman down in the least, she was 'very courageous' indeed. But the confrontations ultimately resulted in her losing her job. Perhaps in AU there would be protections in place to prevent that, and then police would have intervened as well whist things were happening. 

But is Texas, and a very strict part of Texas. Things are different here. 

[Adrianna Danielle]

Yes,I am heavily involved.I also have lesbian,gay and bisexual friends including transgender.Good thing is we agree this is us and that cannot be changed.One friend of mine that is lesbian,her mom tried to get her help when she was 24 doing the conversion therapy.Luckily her dad stepped in and said no this,this is her and cannot be changed.I met him too and he has been great to me.

[Birdie]

I do attend a day-centre that only follows my assigned birth gender while attending. I dress 100% off the woman's rack, but androgynous. As long as I don't 'rock the boat', they are okay with it.

 

'To them' I am a 'male' with wide hips and breasts (a medical deformity). And yes they call it a deformity!

 

They treat me okay, even though I apparently violated their modesty standards by wearing my shorts too short the other day. 

 

I have to tread on egg shells, I'm in west Texas!