OK Governor Signs School Bathroom Bill Into Law

[Carolyn Marie]

https://www.newson6.com/story/628ecf1347f55207110ce491/oklahoma-city-bombing-victims

 

 

Carolyn Marie

[Susan R]

They’re not going to stop anytime soon either. Tighten your belts folks were in for a long ride.

[Ivy]

Because of course they did.

[KatieSC]

So, I am curious. Is the Governor going to mandate vaginal or penile recognition photos before one enters the restroom? Considering the Governor has no balls to do the right thing, will he have to pee against a tree outside? Inquiring minds would like to know. I love it when the job recruiters contact me about the wonderful jobs available in Oklahoma. It is so much fun telling them there is no way I will ever go to Oklahoma. When there are no workers, then they can shutter the place.

[Ivy]

1 hour ago, KatieSC said:

It is so much fun telling them there is no way I will ever go to Oklahoma. When there are no workers, then they can shutter the place.

This wouldn't even be a problem if they would just leave us alone.  It is a no-brainer.

[Susan R]

3 hours ago, KatieSC said:

Is the Governor going to mandate vaginal or penile recognition photos before one enters the restroom?

I agree. This law is impractical and impossible to evenly enforce without such ridiculous measures in place. What it will do is stigmatize the trans community in Oklahoma and nothing more but ofc, that’s the only point of it.

 

If I was in that state and needed a restroom, there’s no chance I’d ever step foot in the men’s restroom because of some law. I know I’m not alone in that thinking. This law won’t stand the test of time.

[VickySGV]

As I read this one, it is only for school bathrooms.  I hope he has signed a bill to triple the number of "security monitors" on the campuses and up their pay considerably, not to mention some other costly stuff.  Only way is for every school employee, to know the birth certificate information of each student by memory which will require 3 additional months of salary for them all.  It appears the enforcement relies on parental reports obtained from their children which opens so much up.  The kids will end up ALL with wet or soiled underwear while the parents go at each other with weapons over "family honor" over false calls based on childish name calling. 

[Ivy]

2 hours ago, Susan R said:

What it will do is stigmatize the trans community in Oklahoma and nothing more but ofc, that’s the only point of it.

Yeah, that is the point.  And of course they can be proud of themselves for saving humanity.

 

2 hours ago, Susan R said:

If I was in that state and needed a restroom, there’s no chance I’d ever step foot in the men’s restroom

Yeah.  That would be scary.  I'd find a bush somewhere like our GOP governor candidate recommends.  So far I've gotten away with the women's.  I've been told I pass better than I realize.  But it would only take one a55h0le.

 

This is all so stupid.  I mean, who gets off on hanging out in a bathroom?

[Abigail Genevieve]

How ironic.  I agree with the governor "“You cannot change your gender; you cannot pick your gender…there is a confused group of people that somehow think you can,”    - we are what we are, we are fighting the fact we CANNOT change our gender, which we did not pick.  Many if not all of us would not have picked a trans condition and have sought to evade, deny or move out or resolve it anyway we can.  Those who are confused on this issue are not trans folk.  They want us to change our gender but they deny we can.  Confusion.  

[Abigail Genevieve]

1 hour ago, Ivy said:

 

 

This is all so stupid.  I mean, who gets off on hanging out in a bathroom?

They are thinking of Loudon.  The problem there was the girls were not protected from a known predator, who was moved from one school to another instead being effectively disciplined.  Outlaw school administrators? <sarc>

[RaineOnYourParade]

1 hour ago, Abigail Genevieve said:

They are thinking of Loudon.  The problem there was the girls were not protected from a known predator, who was moved from one school to another instead being effectively disciplined.  Outlaw school administrators? <sarc>

Crazy fact, was gonna go to the school where this went down at before I moved, have a lot of friends there. I know at least one of my friends met the guy on one occasion, not knowing who it was.

[Ivy]

11 hours ago, Abigail Genevieve said:

They are thinking of Loudon.  The problem there was the girls were not protected from a known predator

Wasn't there some question of whether the perp actually was trans?

 

[Abigail Genevieve]

5 hours ago, Ivy said:

Wasn't there some question of whether the perp actually was trans?

 

Not sure.  The perp is a minor.  The problem here is NOT transgender, the problem here is incompetent and criminal administration.  See https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/family-of-loudoun-co-student-sexually-assaulted-ineptitude-of-all-involved-is-staggering/3231725/

It is more than annoying that people think the problem here is TG and that other people think the solution is some stupid statewide law.  Like an appendectomy to deal with an ingrown toe nail. 

 

Since Loudon, I recall a boy was asked not to use the girl's restroom at a high school by one of the girls.  He, overwhelming her with height and weight,  assaulted her, claiming he had a right to be there.   Later I think eight girls beat him severely in another girl's restroom.  Again the problem is not transgender, the problem is assaults in restrooms and common courtesy.  TG is used as a smokescreen and it seems to paralyze thought among administrators who do not want to do anything to provoke controversy.

[EasyE]

I have found some people correlate TG = child predator ... just as some have correlated homosexual = child predator... 

 

I am baffled by the TG = unsafe connection ... my wife tends to think this way, that this is all about sexual deviancy ... I try to ask how my preference for wearing frilly socks with embroidered flowers and a comfortable camisole under my lavender T-shirts is sexually deviant (or sexual anything) but I don't get very far... 

[Abigail Genevieve]

23 minutes ago, EasyE said:

I have found some people correlate TG = child predator ... just as some have correlated homosexual = child predator... 

 

I am baffled by the TG = unsafe connection ... my wife tends to think this way, that this is all about sexual deviancy ... I try to ask how my preference for wearing frilly socks with embroidered flowers and a comfortable camisole under my lavender T-shirts is sexually deviant (or sexual anything) but I don't get very far... 

It is unfamiliar, therefore threatening.   For 90% or so of the population, gender id can be simply and quickly determined by a quick anatomical observation.  They have no understanding and cannot imagine what it would mean to have a body different from the id.  It is unimaginable.  Therefore, wrong.   So there is this strong headwind.

 

I haven't entered this discussion, but here is a script:

A: I can't imagine what it must be to have TG.

B: You're a man, right?

A: Well, of course. "amused"

B: Imagine you were required by law and custom to wear women's clothing all the time.

A: It wouldn't happen.

B: Okay, but for the sake of the argument...

A: That would be disgusting.  I would be very uncomfortable.

B: You have it.  That is what TG people go through all the time. 24-7-365.

A: Really?

B: And then they are told they are perverts for having those feelings.  The same you just described.

A: I see.

B: And someone comes along and tells you you need conversion therapy so you will be comfortable wearing women's clothing all the time.

A: I think I would break his nose.

B: You understand transgender folk better than you think.

[Ivy]

1 hour ago, Abigail Genevieve said:

It is more than annoying that people think the problem here is TG and that other people think the solution is some stupid statewide law…… Again the problem is not transgender, the problem is assaults in restrooms and common courtesy.

Yeah.  There are already laws against assault.  I don't think the overwhelming majority of trans women have any desire to harass cis women.  Speaking for myself, if I go into a women's washroom, it's because my eyeballs are already floating - not for kicks.  And I worry about getting clocked and assaulted by some guy being a "hero."

[Abigail Genevieve]

34 minutes ago, Ivy said:

Yeah.  There are already laws against assault.  I don't think the overwhelming majority of trans women have any desire to harass cis women.  Speaking for myself, if I go into a women's washroom, it's because my eyeballs are already floating - not for kicks.  And I worry about getting clocked and assaulted by some guy being a "hero."

You probably remember the Target PR fiasco.  I remember reading an account from a woman who shopped there.  She went into a stall and did her business, and someone came into the bathroom and began swinging stall doors open, and when she came to her stall, the woman peeked at her through the crack.

"What are you doing?"

"Checking for perverts." The writer was so stunned by the absurdity that she finished up ASAP and got out of there, while the other woman entered a stall and locked it, made sure it was locked, and locked it again. 

[KatieSC]

I wonder if there will be law enforcement procedural shows coming this fall. I can imagine Law and Order: Genital Crimes Unit, or perhaps, FBI: Domestic Genitalia. Then again, maybe they will dedicate a CSI program about the dedicated members of the Oklahoma State Police Genital Screening Unit. Good to know that those Oklahomans have their priorities squared away.

[RaineOnYourParade]

13 hours ago, Ivy said:

Wasn't there some question of whether the perp actually was trans?

 

As far as I'm aware, he wasn't -- he just sometimes wore skirts, which was why it was a question in the first place.

 

6 hours ago, EasyE said:

I have found some people correlate TG = child predator ... just as some have correlated homosexual = child predator... 

 

I am baffled by the TG = unsafe connection ... my wife tends to think this way, that this is all about sexual deviancy ... I try to ask how my preference for wearing frilly socks with embroidered flowers and a comfortable camisole under my lavender T-shirts is sexually deviant (or sexual anything) but I don't get very far... 

In my opinion, part of that is because of the way press spares attention on issues like that. As a bit of a true crime nut and what I see: Child predator cases' (and cases of a sexual nature in general) press focus on those with an AMAB perpetrator generally, and very rarely are AFAB perpetrators given much press time or even getting tried due to a whole bunch of issues I'm not gonna get into. Because of this, when you see these types of cases and a boy is the victim, it's almost always a queer person who is the one who committed a crime that gets press. Therefore, with the amount of cases seen with this type of perpetrator (and due to the fact "99% of queer people are not sexual criminals" doesn't attract eyes), the human brain can kind of naturally makes an association with it. It's not right, but it's also a fault I think falls partially on the media.

 

That's all my opinion, though!

 

5 hours ago, Ivy said:

Yeah.  There are already laws against assault.  I don't think the overwhelming majority of trans women have any desire to harass cis women.  Speaking for myself, if I go into a women's washroom, it's because my eyeballs are already floating - not for kicks.  And I worry about getting clocked and assaulted by some guy being a "hero."

This is extra confusing to me, as a feminine man is usually viewed as gay. If someone is refusing the acknowledge the existence of trans people, then gay would be the societal connection that comes after, I think. So, that sorta implies that trans women wouldn't be interested in women in the first place by those assumptions? Of course, trans lesbians exist (most trans women I know like women, actually), but it's a little ridiculous to me that people will deny trans people's existence, call all feminine AMAB people gay, and say that trans people are looking to peep all in the same breath.

 

Wow, this was a lot longer of a response than I was planning to write--

[Ivy]

11 hours ago, RaineOnYourParade said:

(most trans women I know like women, actually)

Of course we do.  The few friends I do have are almost exclusively cis or trans women.

I think I could have a relationship with a man, but he would be kinda "other" to me.  Could be interesting though.

I never have understood guys - even when I was trying to be one.

[Davie]

Yay for this . . . it overrides state laws. 4th Circuit Court says:

Gender Identity Is A Protected Characteristic, Blocks State Coverage Bans.

In a landmark ruling, the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that gender identity is a protected characteristic, and that Medicaid bans on treatments for gender dysphoria are unconstitutional.

https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/4th-circuit-gender-identity-is-a?publication_id=994764&post_id=144139815&isFreemail=true&r=rebf4&triedRedirect=true

[VickySGV]

Good to hear about that case, but I believe Oklahoma is in the 11th Circuit COA region along with Texas which is going to find some way to nullify this decision as far as the Oklahoma law goes, just because - - - -

[awkward-yet-sweet]

21 hours ago, KatieSC said:

Then again, maybe they will dedicate a CSI program about the dedicated members of the Oklahoma State Police Genital Screening Unit.

 

You've never encountered the Oklahoma State Troopers, then.... it isn't far from reality.  I swear they've got half an army of cops just sitting around.  On I-40, they've got big concrete pads where they sit in the middle of the highway, sometimes a row of 8 cars in one spot.  I guess they've got money to burn....

[KatieSC]

13 hours ago, Davie said:

Yay for this . . . it overrides state laws. 4th Circuit Court says:

Gender Identity Is A Protected Characteristic, Blocks State Coverage Bans.

In a landmark ruling, the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that gender identity is a protected characteristic, and that Medicaid bans on treatments for gender dysphoria are unconstitutional.

https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/4th-circuit-gender-identity-is-a?publication_id=994764&post_id=144139815&isFreemail=true&r=rebf4&triedRedirect=true

While it is encouraging that they have deemed that they cannot ban the treatment, the bigger question is what treatments they will cover as a result. Speaking as a transgender female, this is a difficult definition. A fair number of insurance plans already cover the basic vaginoplasty, however, for those of us who have a rather masculine appearing face, a heavy beard, a deep voice, and other defining characteristics, attaining a passing feminine appearance is difficult without gender-affirming facial feminization surgery, genital and facial electrolysis, speech therapy and if necessary, gender affirming voice surgery, as well as other body contouring procedures. I view all of these procedures as life-saving in the sense that blending in, and thus avoiding an assault can come down to looking and sounding like you are female. I think the transgender males have a bit more ease with blending in than we do. There will be disagreements as to what constitutes enough surgery to be your truest self. We all pretty much understand that our true gender is locked in our mind. The issue is what can we do to modify our bodies enough to get the congruence between what is in our head, and how we perceive ourselves in the world. Is some of it cosmetic? That is hard to say for sure. I have had insurance companies insist that facial electrolysis is purely cosmetic. Well, most women do not have an Abraham Lincoln beard coming through. Some insurance companies have insisted that speech/voice therapy, as well as voice surgery, are purely cosmetic. I scoured the cosmetic counters for any makeup that would enhance my voice. Being feminine and passing does not mean I get to look and sound like Fred Flintstone in a dress. That kind of weirds folks out, and sets us up to be ridiculed and assaulted in my estimation.

 

My one insurer told me that beyond the vaginoplasty that all of this was cosmetic. In an appeal hearing, I asked the group that if they had a 14 year old daughter who was in an accident that resulted in a large facial scar, would they want the child to receive the best care to remove the scar? Of course they would. I pointed out though, that while she may have the scar, she could live with it. I asked them if the removal of the disfiguring scar in a 14-year old would be difficult for the child when the other kids made fun of her. Of course, they all nodded their head. I explained to the group that for folks like us, it is no different. While it may be cosmetic to a point, these procedures are essential to our well-being, and not something we are doing to be on a YouTube channel.

 

Now some who are trans, or gender fluid, may not want to opt for the procedures. There are quite a few of us that do, but the cost is prohibitive. What also clouds the issue are the surgeons who operate out of large medical centers who participate in the large insurance pools. How many of our sisters and brothers have had to pony up some major dollars to a surgeon who is out of network? Good luck trying to get the surgery paid for by your insurer. They may pay you what they pay the surgeons in network, but you won't get that much in reimbursement. A fair number of insurance companies balk at speech and voice therapy, and many will not cover voice surgery. Then there is the issue of electrolysis. A day at the "spa" for electrolysis with anesthetics will run around 3,000 bucks or so, and you may need many repeat visits. Many of the insurers fail to pay for that as well. Just about none of the insurers will cover body contouring procedures such as a panniculectomy, or liposuction. When the insurance companies will just help us become our truest selves, then we will have progress with gender identity laws.

 

The one good thing that this decision does is preserve the primary care for transgender individuals. I have to wonder how Florida and the rest of the states who have banned having Medicaid cover transgender healthcare are going to act. This should be an interesting fight. When we have the ability to seek care and get what we need for our true needs, without any pre-judgements, then these court orders will mean something. A court order without parameters for the insurance companies is hollow.

[Ivy]

1 hour ago, KatieSC said:

There are quite a few of us that do, but the cost is prohibitive.

True.

I currently get my HRT from the VA (with a copay) but despite the talk, surgery is out.