What do you think is the biggest block to LGBTQ+ acceptance?

[Heather Shay]

What do you think is the biggest block to LGBTQ+ acceptance?

[Lydia_R]

I know my transwoman appearance can be a negative trigger for men.  I mean, it even negatively triggers what is left of my male thought patterns.  I'm wearing a tight fitting, full length, black dress the last few days.  If I could get rid of my male "junk" today, that would be wonderful.

 

I'm not going wear clothing that I do not enjoy and I'm not going to avoid wearing things like this dress just to avoid triggering some people.  During my coming out phase, I was very conscious about going out in public.  Now, several years later, it doesn't even cross my mind at all.  I am free to express myself the way I want to.  I do get some negative reactions from people in the public places I go.  I think it is good for them to realize that when you are in public, you are not in control of who you bump into or what you see.

 

I'm a homebody.  Before coming out, I enjoyed dressing up at home.  Even when I was presenting as a male, I enjoyed dressing up at home, in a masculine way, even if I wasn't going to go anywhere.  I just like looking good and feeling my best.  And it isn't about showing that to other people.

 

So the "acceptance" part of this, is that I just want to be accepted as I am out there in public.  I just want to make my transactions out there and for people to be civil about it.  I'm actually for segregation on the level of if people want to form some club or tavern with a certain culture where they don't have to see and be triggered by me in my dress, and I can go to some club with people who are doing a trans thing, listening to down-tempo acid jazz and drinking ginger tea.  But then there are the super public places like the grocery stores that everyone goes to and you know, we need greater acceptance there.

 

The work/employment thing is a huge deal too.  I think trans people should not use it as an excuse to get out of work or create waves at work and that employers and employees realize that there needs to be professionalism at work.  At work, we're trying to get products to people.  It all boils down to that.  We all use these products and most of us go to work to keep that thing going.  Work isn't some social club.

 

Back to the lump in my dress...  I kind of step into a woman's world by doing this in that they have breasts sticking out that they have no control over. 

[Abigail Genevieve]

Here, the public image of LGBTQ+ is formed from the limited contact of the Pride Parade, which seems to always attract a few people who are into flamboyant sensationalism and inappropriate conduct, so there are arrests for lewd conduct, indecent exposure and public disorder.  Those are the people the news media always covers at the parade, as if everyone LGBTQ+ was like that.  The whole parade thing backfires, in my opinion. 

 

Sometimes these types show up at protests as well, and of course, that is what the news media picks up on. 

 

Some people need to be taken quietly aside and told they are not helping.

 

I don't know if that is the biggest block, but it is there.  Lousy marketing,

[Lydia_R]

That rocks Abby!  We did the 1-2 on that!

[Abigail Genevieve]

18 minutes ago, Lydia_R said:

That rocks Abby!  We did the 1-2 on that!

??

[Lydia_R]

I just like how our posts complimented each other.  Your point about publicity of pride events and that culture seemed to be spot on.  My culture and mindset is so different that I'm barely aware that things like that are going on.  I don't watch news and I'm very much into professional life and life-long learning.  There are all kinds of cultures out there.  Thanks for sharing your insights.

[MAN8791]

I think the biggest mental block to acceptance is the language that keeps us othered and on the fringes, rather than woven deeply into society. But I also think that's changing fairly rapidly. My youngest is well into their young adult genre novels phase and I'm impressed (and kind of amazed) at how many of their mainstream traditionally published novels have LGBTQ+ themes woven in. That child is 12, and I suspect that as the kids who are in middle school along with them grow up, they're just going to expect and demand better than we've done as their parents. They've seen it in the fiction they read and have every expectation that it will be part of the life they live.

[Vidanjali]

One word. Ignorance.

[kristinabee]

I think it just comes down to a lot of people not knowing anything about the lgbtq+ community besides what reactionaries online and on TV say. In my experience, people who have a lot more day-to-day contact with gay and trans people, have lgbtq+ friends or family, coworkers, etc. are a lot more accepting because they know an lgbtq+ person, and know that we aren't anything like what the people on TV say we are. 

[VickySGV]

Xenophobia -- fear of the foreign nature of something.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

There's a couple of things.  First, since so many LGBTQ+ folks often vote Democrat, it is simply assumed that "LGBTQ = Democrat."  And to many, Democrat = enemy.  The fact that some of us don't vote for Democrats comes as a surprise to many.  You wouldn't believe how many different times I have had to explain how I vote, that I don't like Biden, etc...

 

And then, there's the flamboyant, over-the-top appearance and behavior of some.  When average folks see strange dress, wild colors, and the occasional provocative behavior in the news, they assume that it is the norm and that all LGBTQ+ folks are like that.  To them, "LGBTQ = weird." 

 

I think that @Abigail Genevieve is right, part of it is lousy marketing.  And that will take a ton of undoing, because it has been going on for years.

[Maddee]

the T

 

[Abigail Genevieve]

8 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

 And then, there's the flamboyant, over-the-top appearance and behavior of some.  When average folks see strange dress, wild colors, and the occasional provocative behavior in the news, they assume that it is the norm and that all LGBTQ+ folks are like that.  To them, "LGBTQ = weird." 

 

I think that @Abigail Genevieve is right, part of it is lousy marketing.  And that will take a ton of undoing, because it has been going on for years.

I suspect some of these people are not primarily LGBTQ+ but primarily get their kicks by publicly shocking other people.  They take advantage of the parade and think they can get away with it year after year, and sometimes do.  Not just the parade, but sometimes other events that provide cover for them to act this way. They do a great deal of damage to perceptions by the public and by the legislators against us.  

[Penrose-Pauling]

6 hours ago, Maddee said:

the T

 

Doubt it, most people against the T are also against the LGB, I am bi and it all seems to intersect one way or another. Trans people are "new" in the eyes of the public so its just a weird thing for them all.

[MaeBe]

Clutching of pearls because people that don’t “align with society” party to excess is part of the problem, not a symptom of one. Cis-het folks are out there airing their sexuality, reveling in their debauchery, and displaying general anti-social behaviors all the time but aren’t reacted to in the same manner.

 

The most important T in this conversation is Time. As long as there is not a fascist, violent, crackdown on LGBTQ+ people, our exposure to society (at least in Western society) will continue to move it towards our acceptance.

[RaineOnYourParade]

3 hours ago, Penrose-Pauling said:

Doubt it, most people against the T are also against the LGB, I am bi and it all seems to intersect one way or another. Trans people are "new" in the eyes of the public so its just a weird thing for them all.

I've actually seen a lot of people who at least tolerate the LGB and not the T. There's also some of the gay/lesbian population that, unfortunately, alienate trans people away from other parts of the community.

 

To me, the biggest block is probably the lack of formal exposure. If people aren't taught about LGBT they will, just like any other topic, come to misunderstandings and more. Besides, how can most LGBT people figure out that they are such if they don't know it exists? I know that, personally, I didn't realize I was a guy rather than just someone who wanted to be a guy until I was introduced to trans as a concept 

[Ashley0616]

Just like anything else that is new it's always the thing that people fear of. People are typically afraid of change. Even something as simple as new procedure at work or the population growing. Typically just have the mindset of it's not broken then don't fix it type of attitude. The world is progressing and they need to accept that or they will eventually be left behind. A good example after WW II women working in the workforce things didn't go well at all due to a lot of butting heads. There are still even people now that think women are only meant for housework and raising babies. 

[VickySGV]

No one has mentioned the Adult Entertainment Industry aka the Pornography Industry which for too long was the ONLY source of information about us for the general public.  I actually realized what I was from an XX Rated publication that I snuck behind a comic book at the neighborhood convenience / liquor store.  The person in the article told of her feelings up until and through GCS which I identified with completely, but then went on to the sob story of a marriage crashing when her knowing husband went to a new job and they found out she was Trans on a security check and threatened the husband with legal action unless he divorced her ---  yada yada!!   On that note she decided her  life was ruined. -- 

 

Other problems in the Porn Press are of course the "Morality" and it is there that child endangerment stories for actual mental illness types  comes in.  Also in that media they emphasize the Fetishistic Cross Dresser classification which is an actual addiction situation and is a harmful process addiction of sex that is as terrible as Drug and Alcohol Addiction can be.  The pornographic issues and sources of information are readily available in the opening pages of a Google Search while actual Trans information is about page 200 on the engine.

 

A recent misadventure I had that shows how acceptable I am as my True Self is that a man who claimed to be a church elder (minister??) told me how he had never come up with legitimate information   on Trans People and actual Trans Children and he went on to brag about what he did find that was morally damning by looking for the  information.  He continued to go into detail about other pornographic sources and how nasty they were. I asked him then why HE, a MINISTER kept looking at the Porn.  He replied to me that he kept up with it to warn his congregation of the true evils he had seen so he could minister to them.  Happily for me a friend of mine came along so I could  break away from the guy who was after my soul.  (He did not read me as Trans, whew!!)

[Abigail Genevieve]

@VickySGV    Good point.  There are websites full of porn and fantasies related to cross dressing, trans stories, etc., and people might easily think those are written by TG types and accurately describe TG folk.

[Maddee]

6 hours ago, MaeBe said:

 

 

The most important T in this conversation is Time. As long as there is not a fascist, violent, crackdown on LGBTQ+ people, our exposure to society (at least in Western society) will continue to move it towards our acceptance.

I like your take on this.  

[awkward-yet-sweet]

I agree that porn is a really bad thing.  Bad in general, but probably gives a misleading view of trans folks.  If you don't see trans folks out in the wild, but you see plenty of them online, that is going to give the impression that it is primarily sex-driven, and that trans folks are interested in sex with just about everybody all the time.  Similar to what people often assume about being bisexual. 

 

I'm androgynous, so sometimes people look at me this way.  Especially if my husband and I are together (if they don't assume I'm his kid) people get that "judgy" look on their faces.  You can sort of read their minds.  I even heard on lady say something like, "Oh, that's just so wrong" when we came out of a shower at a truck stop.  I mean, I like sex and we have a great connection in that way, but its not "THE REASON" for our relationship. 

[Mirrabooka]

14 hours ago, RaineOnYourParade said:

I've actually seen a lot of people who at least tolerate the LGB and not the T. There's also some of the gay/lesbian population that, unfortunately, alienate trans people away from other parts of the community.

I wonder if the LGBTQI+ umbrella should be split? Create separate entities for LGB and TQI+ folk? 

 

I have no doubt that some cis het people probably think that sexuality and gender identity are the same thing, for whatever the reason, not necessarily willful ignorance. It would be natural for such people to observe that both LGB and T folk are under the same umbrella, so they must be the same, right?

 

Just as (and I know I'm making some pretty big assumptions in this post) some cis gay folk would think that the LBGTQI+ umbrella is pie - give trans people a slice, and somehow, they will miss out. Just like cis het folk might also think that their lives are somehow being diminished by allowing trans people to have basic human rights.

[EasyE]

I had a pretty serious porn addiction for awhile (thankfully broken about 12 years ago), and so my wife sees my "trans-ness" tied into that ... to her, it is all one ugly thread of sexual sin and dysfunction... sometimes, I do struggle with it, too. Is this just another branch of a sexual addiction thing? Am I looking for a substitute for the porn?

 

When I sift through everything it seems much deeper than that. And if anything, the HRT has lowered/changed my libido and it hasn't lowered my desire to move in a more feminine direction with dress, etc. It can be confusing, especially when you are in a very religious/moralistic environment...

 

To get back to the main topic, the fear of change and the unknown is huge. And like others have said, folks on the fringe of just about any cause tend to be what gets played up in the media and what folks see the most. Not many people see good ol' regular transgender people who are just trying to live their lives, hold down jobs, take care of their families, etc.

 

[Abigail Genevieve]

2 hours ago, Mirrabooka said:

I wonder if the LGBTQI+ umbrella should be split? Create separate entities for LGB and TQI+ folk? 

 

I have no doubt that some cis het people probably think that sexuality and gender identity are the same thing, for whatever the reason, not necessarily willful ignorance. It would be natural for such people to observe that both LGB and T folk are under the same umbrella, so they must be the same, right?

 

Just as (and I know I'm making some pretty big assumptions in this post) some cis gay folk would think that the LBGTQI+ umbrella is pie - give trans people a slice, and somehow, they will miss out. Just like cis het folk might also think that their lives are somehow being diminished by allowing trans people to have basic human rights.

There has been discussion before on this.  Not all the TG goals are the same as the LGB+ goals. We can agree on some things, but some gays reject transgender and some transgender reject homosexuality.  I think it is a case of we can work together on some things, but there are limits.

[VickySGV]

@Mirrabooka@Abigail Genevieve Let's not neglect the severe divisions within the Trans and NB sector as well along those lines.  Where we have Non Op & Non HRT and Cross Dressers, Gender Benders, Gender Fluid, Agender et al VS. the full surgical route takers with GCS, FFS, BA and vocal surgery,   Which of those segments gets to speak for the others?  How do we turn them into a cohesive force for good just among those nominally under the Trans shade tree??