Distinctions Between Anti Androgens And Estrogen

[Guest Soph]

What I want to know, for the most part, is how important anti androgens are to my physical development as a female.

Like, do they simply catalyze the effects of estrogen, or are some of the physical changes due to them?

If I take just estrogen, will I see a reduction in body hair, or do I need to be on anti androgens for that?

Same for the weight distribution.

And if it just catalyzes, by how much? Would I be waiting around for 5 years looking for any results from the estrogen alone?

I ask this because my doctor is starting me on just estrogen to see how it affects me health-wise. Well, I'm dieing to start my changes as soon as possible, so even if I start the anti androgens a month later, I want my body to start changing.

Many thanks :3

[Guest Eth]

Anti-androgens are used to lower your "male" hormones to an appropriate "female" level for you, and so yes they do play a huge role in your mental and physical changes.

愛 Eth

[Guest S. Chrissie]

An antiandrogen, or androgen antagonist, is any of a group of hormone receptor antagonist compounds that are capable of preventing or inhibiting the biologic effects of androgens,[1] male sex hormones, on normally responsive tissues in the body. Antiandrogens usually work by blocking the appropriate receptors, competing for binding sites on the cell's surface, obstructing the androgens' pathway.

And it is just that, prohibiting testosterone from doing their job. It lightens the competition between estrogen and testosterone, which would let estrogen work better, and to more effect. If you aren't on anti androgens, then the estrogen that you induced into your body will have to fight with the testosterone that are produced by your own body over who gets the "last say" in affecting your body

So anti androgens aren't really needed, it merely complements the estrogen. I've heard of people going on estrogen and not anti androgens. Unless your body produces more estrogen naturally, you probably won't see changes if you start on anti androgen only.

Sherlyn

[Guest Charlene_Leona]

Since you are in a Doctor care, I want to warn you that you can't just take estrogen alone. If you were to do so after a short period of time your breast will start to grow, but without anti-androgens your breast will develop a condition called Tubular Breast. Look up the term and view the photos and you will see a very unattractive sight. Also you need to stop the effects of testosterone on your body and thats what the anti-androgens do. Your body will start to develop into a feminine shape the fats will start to distribute properly on your body, especially your breast. So follow your doctor's orders and take the meds they give you don't skimp for money reasons.

[Guest Soph]

Since you are in a Doctor care, I want to warn you that you can't just take estrogen alone. If you were to do so after a short period of time your breast will start to grow, but without anti-androgens your breast will develop a condition called Tubular Breast. Look up the term and view the photos and you will see a very unattractive sight. Also you need to stop the effects of testosterone on your body and thats what the anti-androgens do. Your body will start to develop into a feminine shape the fats will start to distribute properly on your body, especially your breast. So follow your doctor's orders and take the meds they give you don't skimp for money reasons.

My doctor is the one putting me on estrogen alone, but I will start anti androgens later... maybe a month after or so.

And tubular breast? To me that sounds like surfer slang, but I'll take your word that its not pretty. I don't want to see it myself

[Guest S. Chrissie]

Since you are in a Doctor care, I want to warn you that you can't just take estrogen alone. If you were to do so after a short period of time your breast will start to grow, but without anti-androgens your breast will develop a condition called Tubular Breast. Look up the term and view the photos and you will see a very unattractive sight. Also you need to stop the effects of testosterone on your body and thats what the anti-androgens do. Your body will start to develop into a feminine shape the fats will start to distribute properly on your body, especially your breast. So follow your doctor's orders and take the meds they give you don't skimp for money reasons.

Interesting, I've heard someone told me that her endocrinologist said anti androgen wasn't needed, and she was prescribed only estrogen and she had a normal growth so far. And I quote :the endocrinologist said that "anti androgens are overrated"

To Soph: Better listen to Charlene than me. I am on both

Sherlyn

[Guest Leah1026]

Interesting, I've heard someone told me that her endocrinologist said anti androgen wasn't needed, and she was prescribed only estrogen and she had a normal growth so far. And I quote :the endocrinologist said that "anti androgens are overrated"

That doctor is an idiot.

Taking an anti-androgen allows you to take a lower dose of estrogen and still get good results.

The lower dose of estrogen also means less chance of negative side effects like blood clots etc.

Can't comment much on the "tubular" breast thing. I'm unaware of any connection to not using an anti-androgen. My belief is that progesterone (Prometrium or Microgest) helps ensure full development of breast tissue.

[Guest Evan_J]

What Leah said

PLUS, and I add this just to reinforce the job antiandrogens do, FtMs only take testosterone because testosterone "overpowers" estrogen. If a biological female, who already HAS the levels of e that you are injecting can overpower that with the level of t via injection that the biological male body is producing naturally what do you think that person will get? The same thing as an FtM very likely.

[Guest Jo-I-Dunno]

I remember I read this one pamphlet that described the effects of anti-androgens alone without estrogen. I think it was just a mild version of all the other feminizing effects since the male body makes a small amount of estrogen on its own, and without testosterone to combat it, it can make those small changes.

One lowers masculinity, the other one heightens feminity. 1 + 1 = 2 (not 2x as fast or anything, you know what I mean).

[Guest Aurea]

Maybe cliche, but: ask your doctor? he studied for it, he can be held responsible for it, and you can ask a 2nd opinion, and a 3rd if you like. I would like to say my opinion, but I am no expert so I really want to hold back on my opinions on this one. maybe it's different per case, who knows. You can't really form a valid opinion on various anecdotes alone, that's why we have medical professionals right?

Much luv!

[Guest Jo-I-Dunno]

Maybe cliche, but: ask your doctor? he studied for it, he can be held responsible for it, and you can ask a 2nd opinion, and a 3rd if you like. I would like to say my opinion, but I am no expert so I really want to hold back on my opinions on this one. maybe it's different per case, who knows. You can't really form a valid opinion on various anecdotes alone, that's why we have medical professionals right?

Much luv!

The problem with HRT for transsexuals is that it's a mostly under-studied topic and all we have to go on are the individual doctors' anecdotal evidence. Not that that's useless, but I'm sure different doctors would give you wildly different opinions about this.

[Guest newbee]

Anti-androgens are used to lower your "male" hormones to an appropriate "female" level for you, and so yes they do play a huge role in your mental and physical changes.

hi sorry im new here may be i made som mistake writting donno, plz help, im 27 yrs old mtf , just 3 weeks back i started hormone therapy, my doc in europe gave me androcur only anti androgen , no estrogen , he asked me to visit him back in 3 months for blood test and then he would give me estrogen, but all i see here ppl r takin estrogen and anti androgen together some , why not me? and since few days i sweat in night and chills and cold is this effect of pills? , plz help

Edited January 28, 2012 by JaniceW
Removed reference to dosage.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

hi sorry im new here may be i made som mistake writting donno, plz help, im 27 yrs old mtf , just 3 weeks back i started hormone therapy, my doc in europe gave me androcur only anti androgen , no estrogen , he asked me to visit him back in 3 months for blood test and then he would give me estrogen, but all i see here ppl r takin estrogen and anti androgen together some , why not me? and since few days i sweat in night and chills and cold is this effect of pills? , plz help

Different doctors use different start ups. It comes down to their interpretation of your blood testing. It takes time to get you balanced - you CANNOT compare with others. Just keep your doctor informed on how you feel.

Lizzy

[Guest AllisonD]

I seem to have taken a different route (so what else is new?)

I got rid of the boys as soon as I could after reaching the age of majority. And I didn't start estrogen until a year or so later, it took me that long to realize it was a possibility and then to find it. This was before the age of gender clinics, at least as far as I was aware at the time.

Wouldn't it just be better to get rid of the boys and not bother with spiro? It did work for me, but I have not seen a post by anyone else that took that route. If I had to do it again, I would do it the same way, only I would do it at 7 or 8 instead of 18.

Allison

[Guest Sarah]

hi sorry im new here may be i made som mistake writting donno, plz help, im 27 yrs old mtf , just 3 weeks back i started hormone therapy, my doc in europe gave me androcur only anti androgen , he asked me to take only 1 pill a day thaths 50 mg tablett, no estrogen , he asked me to visit him back in 3 months for blood test and then he would give me estrogen, but all i see here ppl r takin estrogen and anti androgen together some , why not me? and since few days i sweat in night and chills and cold is this effect of pills? , plz help

well newbee, that's normal for belgium, it's their way to make sure that you're not making a mistake, because they don't want that on their consiounce.

i was 4 months on anti-androgens, before i started estrogens. normally it would've been 6 months, but psy and endo were okay with me starting then.

[Guest Jo-I-Dunno]

I seem to have taken a different route (so what else is new?)

I got rid of the boys as soon as I could after reaching the age of majority. And I didn't start estrogen until a year or so later, it took me that long to realize it was a possibility and then to find it. This was before the age of gender clinics, at least as far as I was aware at the time.

Wouldn't it just be better to get rid of the boys and not bother with spiro? It did work for me, but I have not seen a post by anyone else that took that route. If I had to do it again, I would do it the same way, only I would do it at 7 or 8 instead of 18.

Allison

I read somewhere the cost of castration is more expensive than... I think 4 or 6 (something like that) years of anti-androgens, money that could be saved for SRS if that's a goal. Some surgeons say an orchiectomy too long before SRS can make SRS more difficult because of less tissue. Others say it really doesn't matter. Again, lots of conflicting stuff out there.

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

I would go the orchi route but I dont have the funds to do so, I will admit that the diuretic side effect of spiro is more than moderately annoying but is something we put up with because of its AA effect. I am also on Spiro and Estrogen, and my Dr. is thinking bout progesterone as well. Since I am her first Transsexual patient she has asked me to keep her informed (via email) of any good links and files I find. I will be sending her another email with a link to the Three Bridges Clinic in Vancouver Canada; that site has a gold mine of information for providers and clients alike. I have downloaded most of their publications, the ones for patients cover things like hormones and surgery, the surgical requirements are those of the BC health ministry but the rest of the information is excellent.

[Guest angie]

What I want to know, for the most part, is how important anti androgens are to my physical development as a female.

Like, do they simply catalyze the effects of estrogen, or are some of the physical changes due to them?

If I take just estrogen, will I see a reduction in body hair, or do I need to be on anti androgens for that?

Same for the weight distribution.

And if it just catalyzes, by how much? Would I be waiting around for 5 years looking for any results from the estrogen alone?

I ask this because my doctor is starting me on just estrogen to see how it affects me health-wise. Well, I'm dieing to start my changes as soon as possible, so even if I start the anti androgens a month later, I want my body to start changing.

Many thanks :3

The anti-androgens are important.The T blocker (Spironolactone)allows the estrogen to do it's job more completely.The DHT blocker(Proscar) allows the facial features to femininze more thoroughly.

Without,you do femininze,but at a much slower rate than with your AA's.

Angie

[Shannonline]

It would only be common sense to start anti-androgens first before estrogen, you want to lower your T levels not compete with them :S

Flooding your body with both straight away will only give you worse mood swings. It's a slow process at best. Do some of your own research and question everything, like someone said it's an area with very little funded research and most doctors are winging it more than anything

[Guest Sherry7620]

Taking enough E in any form at an effective enough level to mitigate T is russian roulette.

[Guest nymphblossom]

Endocrinology is a tricky science, so it's good to have a basic understanding of how the body works. The male the pineal gland monitors the level of free testosterone in the blood stream. If testosterone gets higher than the body allows, the pineal gland sends a chemical signal to the pituitary gland, which sends out an endorphin into the blood stream. The endorphin causes free blood testosterone to be synthesized into estrogen. Estrogen causes the testicles to cut down on testosterone production, or even shut down temporarily until the levels of estrogen dissipate. The pineal and the pituitary quit the chem. and synthesizing endorphin as soon as the lower testosterone is detected.

Blossom

[Guest DebbieS]

Ok

I can see this thread is old but I still need to log in and reply.

What I think we must all bare in mind is that over the many years transgender people have been communicating, a lot of doctors have not been that specialised.

Whilst there are undoubtedly really good doctors and endo's out there, with all the will in world they cannot have the overall depth of experience of the whole transgender community.

So in summing up I guess I would listen to those that know, rather than those you think may know.

(hhhmm....that is left open to Freudian interpretation I guess)

Debs. x