Androgynous Sexuality?

[Guest Evan_J]

Actually, your orientation sounds bisexual. If you identify as androgynous then I would say a feminine androgynous. But then I "do" the binary so I can be ignored.

[Guest Irielle]

I have about given up trying to label myself. I am genetic male but should have been born genetic female. I'm an androgyne so genderwise I am both male and female but more female. I am attracted to both men and women and I don't care whether they are genetic male or female, androgynous, TG, TS, CD, gay, straight or whatever. It just depends upon the person. I have had relationships with both men and women and love both. My bf is genetic male and his gender is male and he's gay. He likes me as both a male and a female. Now what on earth is all this about and does it even matter? I must be something like a MTF pansexual androgyne? I'm sure I've left something out.

[Guest androgynous]

I have about given up trying to label myself. I am genetic male but should have been born genetic female. I'm an androgyne so genderwise I am both male and female but more female. I am attracted to both men and women and I don't care whether they are genetic male or female, androgynous, TG, TS, CD, gay, straight or whatever. It just depends upon the person. I have had relationships with both men and women and love both. My bf is genetic male and his gender is male and he's gay. He likes me as both a male and a female. Now what on earth is all this about and does it even matter? I must be something like a MTF pansexual androgyne? I'm sure I've left something out.

Yes I can understand that, the labeling gets harder and harder when your not binary. For myself speaking, I never really had a sex appetite. I did it mainly because it was expected. Yeah. I must say that I don't like sex that much, I rather want it to be quickly over. I believe it is part of my androgyny, where I reached a kind of stalemate, an equilibrium of genders. I am heterosexual, and I can get exited by woman of course, but I can do it on command, yeah I really can, I have the feeling that I can lean that way when I want to.

[Guest Magan]

I have been reading this thread and I am rather confused with all the names and terms…

I always thought Gender Identity and Sexuality where two different topics?

Gender Identity - What sex am I? Male, Female, both or neither?

Sexuality - What sex am I attracted to? Male, Female, Both, neither?

That seems rather simple to me, it gets very complex when you try to give all the combinations their own label.

I am just a girl that likes girls.

[Guest androgynous]

I have been reading this thread and I am rather confused with all the names and terms…

I always thought Gender Identity and Sexuality where two different topics?

Gender Identity - What sex am I? Male, Female, both or neither?

Sexuality - What sex am I attracted to? Male, Female, Both, neither?

That seems rather simple to me, it gets very complex when you try to give all the combinations their own label.

I am just a girl that likes girls.

Generally speaking, for me it's like this:

Gender: male, female or neither in feeling and/or appearance. (can be cultural influenced)

Sex: how you are born biological.

Sexual attraction: doesn't matter at all in androgyny, it can be anything or nothing at all.

[Guest Kigva]

lol Don't feel bad I'm an androgyn who jokes {seriously} that I'm Quadrasexual- A Bi man and A Bi-woman.

[Guest TBForLife]

Oh I like that quad concept.

There are so many different arenas to put this in!

Picking myself apart here. I wish to emasculate my female genitalia, but I have no wishes to remove my female genitals (hysterectomy cant come soon enough)

I love my chest, it just has a little extra skin but looks strong and male. My body could be a very fit female or an average male.

My face is more male now with the little scruff I have going on but I do shave my head and eyebrows, wear long hair extensions and apply makeup in a hardcore goth look most days.

I wear nailpolish, brights or blacks. Very high contrast and pink is my power color. My voice is deep bass and I walk flawlessly in heels with my cargo shorts and tight fish net tops.

Im a home body, nurturer and I love to cook, create, be artistic, do crafts and knit, play music and I dance like a stripper.

Women find my company exceptional because it's like being around a man who listens and takes interest in them rather than taking interest in sex or something away from her.

I'm always thinking of her first.

However I am a cold and calculated jerk with a harsh concept of take reality and accept it no matter how much it hurts. I dont cry, people get me confused because they're all so emo to me. I have no superficial emotions and I dont care to invest my time in them either. I feel a love stronger than anything for my SELF, my Family (related and friends) and my Faith.

I'm also sexually compatible with both males and females, take any position depending on my partner and there is a very short list of things I haven't done or won't do again.

I am very attracted to females, I can't handle the emotional relationship.

I am very attracted to males, but find myself becoming dominant and aggressive with them.

I can not picture myself as a woman. I do cross dress and still see a man. I can not picture my genetalia as being male, I know that's a vagina and I'm fine with that until I find suitable means of making it more male in nature. Even then It's just going to be a surgically enhance vagina that gave birth to my kids, not going to change my idea of that.

I can neither force myself to accept myself as a man or a woman. I feel my gender role (dominant) is male and my sexual role slips between the two quite fluently.

Either way, I'm pretty much an open minded homoeccentric guy. (or the F word synonymous with Flaming)

I don't discriminate against gender or sex, its more like an appetite to me.

Today I want tacos, tomorrow sausage, maybe some meat testicles or a chicken breast another day but I can't just live on a restricted diet.

Being that said I'm not just talking about sex, I'm talking about relationships. I need the woman downstairs to be my social partner for conversation and deep thoughts, my emotional outlet. While the woman I live with screws up my life so much that I love having her here just to test me!

Other women are great to dance with, giggle with and spend meaningless hours in conversation, and when you get down to the nitty gritty, yes women are great at that too.

I need my best buddy to talk about relationships too, hang out with, just to have him walking down the street with me. Watching movies together and talking about things we'd like to do. I also have a gay shopping buddy. I have a sort of boyfriend who I talk faith with, and I have an older gentleman (65) who I spend long hours with at the bar just hearing his stories. I can't say any of these people are less or more important in my life.

I have had intimate relations with a few of them and all, but honestly I CAN see me being long term with ANY of the above but I wouldn't because I don't do the commitment thing well my needs are always changing.

To add to this I am very safe, protect myself and take care in all ways, get regular checks and tests and am in no way living the swinger life style.

I just enjoy being people, loving people.

Theres no box for that.

If you like coke over pepsi, what are you?

Just personal pref.

People can't gender label me when they see me. I have external traits of both in abundance and I just let people decide which gender they think I might be. Often its just what role I fit in to each individual rather than belonging to a particular gender in permanence.

[Guest ericc]

That's a very good question. Well for me I'm attracted to Women who are Masculine or identify as Masculine Gendered. And my gender behavor goes from Androgyne to completely Feminine. I feel like I'm a femenine girl all of a sudden and they are my Boyfriend. I'm still trying to figure it out, I'll be seeing my new Theoripist this week since by parents just recently found out and all.

It's like I'm sexually attracted to Women but I'm mentally attracted to Masculinity but not the Male body at all.

I like Butch but they identify sexually as Lesbian.

I like non-op FTM but I don't want them to be angry with me because they are men in a women's body and not a Masculine Gendered Women.

So the only catergory is Androgyne and you can't pin-point Androgyny.

I like to think of myself as Submissive while my attraction is the Dominating Love partner.

So that's me and my sexuality.

[Guest Cazz333]

lol Don't feel bad I'm an androgyn who jokes {seriously} that I'm Quadrasexual- A Bi man and A Bi-woman.

I guess I'm a gay male, a heterosexual male and a heterosexual female in one. Geez, no wonder I can't work anything out gender wise. The only certainty is that I don't have an ounce of lesbian women in me. I suppose I'm androphillic to both women and men. Hence, hetero-bi as my romantic orientation.

That's a very good question. Well for me I'm attracted to Women who are Masculine or identify as Masculine Gendered. And my gender behavor goes from Androgyne to completely Feminine. I feel like I'm a femenine girl all of a sudden and they are my Boyfriend. I'm still trying to figure it out, I'll be seeing my new Theoripist this week since by parents just recently found out and all.

It's like I'm sexually attracted to Women but I'm mentally attracted to Masculinity but not the Male body at all.

I like Butch but they identify sexually as Lesbian.

I like non-op FTM but I don't want them to be angry with me because they are men in a women's body and not a Masculine Gendered Women.

So the only catergory is Androgyne and you can't pin-point Androgyny.

I like to think of myself as Submissive while my attraction is the Dominating Love partner.

So that's me and my sexuality.

Ditto. Sexual identity wise I identify as either a masculine woman or some 70% male, 30% female androgyne with some days feeling like neither female or male.

[Guest Ryles_D]

Actually, your orientation sounds bisexual. If you identify as androgynous then I would say a feminine androgynous. But then I "do" the binary so I can be ignored.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by that? Why would you say they're feminine androgynous instead of just adrogynous.

Very high contrast and pink is my power color.

What's a power color? I've heard of them before, but I'm not sure what they are.

[Guest Cazz333]

Could you elaborate on what you mean by that? Why would you say they're feminine androgynous instead of just adrogynous.

What's a power color? I've heard of them before, but I'm not sure what they are.

I think it more more inclined to being more feminine over all but still have some masculine side in you that makes you androgynous as well instead of just feminine. It might also mean one androgyne who is more attracted to females or her/ his female side over all.

[Guest Ryles_D]

I think it more more inclined to being more feminine over all but still have some masculine side in you that makes you androgynous as well instead of just feminine. It might also mean one androgyne who is more attracted to females or her/ his female side over all.

But, what do feminne and masculine have to do with gender? That's bugged me a lot. A person can identify as 100% male, yet still be very feminine. A lot of ciswomen who are women and identify as such are very masculine. An attraction to females doesn't seem to have anything to do with gender- is a straight man feminine because he's attracted to women? I can see "who is more their female side" as being that, though.

[Guest Cazz333]

But, what do feminne and masculine have to do with gender? That's bugged me a lot. A person can identify as 100% male, yet still be very feminine. A lot of ciswomen who are women and identify as such are very masculine. An attraction to females doesn't seem to have anything to do with gender- is a straight man feminine because he's attracted to women? I can see "who is more their female side" as being that, though.

Not really. I tend to confuse feminine and female as in a cisgendered woman is a feminine and female woman. I suppose you could be right, a masculine woman could identify herself as female and cisgendered... I probably confuse the two as I sense that's mutually exclusive. If you're masculine you somewhat identify with the male gender identity even though you don't do it consciously. Well U suppose I need to find a more accturate meaning of the terms...

[Guest ericc]

For me, I'm attracted to Females who identify in the Masculine Gender (Non-Binary). I wouldn't technicly be heterosexual but at the same time, hetero is more on sexual and not Gender. But how can you seperate Non-Binary Heterosexuality from Binary?

[Guest Valentine]

Asexual, it just makes it easier that way.

[Guest SimonFox]

In my case I go by the biological sex because I find it easier (especially when it comes to tell other people).

I'm a male (an androgyne male) who likes men, so I say I'm gay.

But it happens to me something that I find really interesting and I don' know if it happens to other gay androgynes; being gay I'm sexually interested in men, but I fall in love with women (which I don't feel sexually atracted to).

Hi that’s Interesting, I have something very similar but in the other way.

I'm a Male (COGIATI has classed me as Androgyne -105) but I feel more Gynephile attracted to Femininity which means it could be either Female or Male, what I mean is the more masculine either of those sexes are the less attracted I am to them.

But for a Male to fall into my Gynephile he needs to be a she ! The more Feminine in appearance, manner and looks the stronger it becomes till the point if He/She is Cute with it, I would have He/She over a Pretty Gen-girl who would be its equal.

Why ? as like you I'm more sexually attracted to boy but the mix of a Cute boy who is Feminine T-girl and very Cute Gay boys. But I fall in Love with Feminine Woman which I can also be sexually attracted to ! but its not as strong.

The Best of both worlds for me would be to fall in Love with a pretty or Cute T-girl, Feminine in nature but with a boys body, that to me literally is a Girlyboy I need her to be both ! Confusing isn't it !

Unfortunately the pretty T-girls want to be girls and not boys as well.

Question to anyone who might know this.

What is a Girlyboy who wants to be both Girl and boy, dress feminine, have feminine nature, looks feminine ?

I do know its not a traditional T-girl they don’t want the boy side of them ! I'm totally confused with this.

Simon.

[Guest Rain]

I have a question, if Androgynous mean you are both or neither, then it is impossible to be neither without being both. If you look and think like neither, its because your both. There is not a No GENDER, we all have one, but the only way you can appear not to have one is if male and female become one. I do not know if this makes sense. I do know whats going on with me per say, I am pretty confused myself.

[Guest Nigh]

I have a question, if Androgynous mean you are both or neither, then it is impossible to be neither without being both. If you look and think like neither, its because your both. There is not a No GENDER, we all have one, but the only way you can appear not to have one is if male and female become one. I do not know if this makes sense. I do know whats going on with me per say, I am pretty confused myself.

Well, androgynous normally means displaying traits from both sexes. Someone who is neuter however would identify as neither male or female.

[Guest Ryles_D]

I have a question, if Androgynous mean you are both or neither, then it is impossible to be neither without being both. If you look and think like neither, its because your both. There is not a No GENDER, we all have one, but the only way you can appear not to have one is if male and female become one. I do not know if this makes sense. I do know whats going on with me per say, I am pretty confused myself.

Androgynous isn't a gender identity, it's a presentation that is somewhere between the masculine presentation and the feminine presentation, often with the goal of confusing others as to whether the person is male or female (in the case of non-binaries, this is because they aren't male or female, and androgyny is the closest to passing you'll get).

An androgyne is a mixture of both male and female (50/50), a bigender is fully both male and female (100/100), a neutrois/agender is neither male and female (0/0) while still having a gender identity, that identity being agender/neutrois, with the full "perks" of dysphoria, etc. Any one of these could have some sort of androgynous presentation- but probably with different outcomes. Androgynes and bigenders are more likely to mix male and female traits- so it's possible for an androgyne to want breasts and also want a beard. A neutrois, however, only wants to eliminate male and female traits as best as they possibly can. Bigenders can be kind of screwed because they switch from male to female- so while female they want to be a biowoman, while male they want to be a bioman, and it's hard to find a middle ground taht let's them always be comfortable.

It is possible to have NO gender identity at all. It's called genderless. They experience no dysphoria, really don't understand the idea of gender, and probably only know there is such a thing as gender because transpeople exist. Some had to train themselves to act as their assigned sex, some act fairly androgynously, some are comfortable with their assigned role, but would be just as comfortable in any other role. They all would be pretty much fine if they woke up as/were born as the opposite sex- the only person who said they wouldn't, it was because they'd have to retrain themselves to be male and that'd be a hassle rather than any attachement to their current sex. There's another forum with a lot of genderless people, so I might be misrepresenting it a bit- but this seems accurate.

It wouldn't surprise me if no one actually identifies as genderless because it's more the lack of a particular identity than an identity, most just don't think about it.

[Guest androgynous]

Ryles_D summed it up pretty correct, or at least the way I see it in general too.

[Guest Evan_J]

the only way you can appear not to have one is if male and female become one.

Very good "grasshoppa"

Well, androgynous normally means displaying traits from both sexes. Someone who is neuter however would identify as neither male or female.

In order to make the above statement "balanced" and "true" (in a mathmatical type sense )you would have to be able to say : (option one) androgynous normally means displaying traits from both sexes. Someone who is neuter displays neither male or female traits.

OR

(option two)

androgynous normally means identifying as both sexes. Someone who is neuter however would identify as neither male or female.

Self defined gender identity is a subjective thing, the perameters of which are the product of the the mind of the creator. "Displayed traits" -which, by use of the word "display"- infers an objective thing, not subject to the psyche of the bearer and observable by others indescriminately. These two things are no where near equal.

Question to anyone who might know this.

What is a Girlyboy who wants to be both Girl and boy, dress feminine, have feminine nature, looks feminine ?

I do know its not a traditional T-girl they don’t want the boy side of them ! I'm totally confused with this.

Not "into" the world of the androgynous, however based on what exposure I've had: a feminine Androgynous person

Understood possibilities (understood by me that is) : feminine androgynous, masculine androgynous, complete androgynous (the state described by Rain wherein both become one). Complete androgyny in most recent times has (at least in concept it seems) been "spun off" and set in opposition to 'neutrois" since "neutrois" carries the connotation of genital absence instead of genital merging in its physical manifestation. Truthfully though, this is right were "neutrois" loses logic as far as I can tell. In order to be set opposite complete androgyny it has to be a gender description. Gender descriptions are based on those "displayed traits" and a self defined identity Nigh referred to. While the self defined identity, because it is subjective and only needs to exist in the mind of the creator might be immune to empirical laws, the "displayed traits" are not. If the sex of a neutrois person would be defined by the absence of any genitals , and by extention all things either male or female, then the "displayed traits" must also illustrate the complete absence of "what is male" and the complete absence of "what is female" and that is not possible since ALL parts of a human (eyes, ears, nose, blood, urine and all), and ALL of their instincts , impulses, and behaviors are composed of male and female; in bodily construction via dna and in personality /cognizence as all human traits are male in nature, female in nature, or a measure against each other. In order to be "neutrois" you would literally have to be nothing. Not a human cell. Not a human molecule. Neither a human trait.Nothing.

Instead of trying to twist "neutrois" then into being a gender, (since it doesn't follow logic and the mainstream will make mincemeat of it) the proponents of this idea might be best served to instead rethink it as a "way of executing" being androgynous. ie "I'm androgynous but I had my genitals removed."

Just .02 cents and yeah, I realize nobody asked for it but actually I'm trying to be helpful pointing out the logic before some cis person does.

[Guest Ryles_D]

Truthfully though, this is right were "neutrois" loses logic as far as I can tell. In order to be set opposite complete androgyny it has to be a gender description. Gender descriptions are based on those "displayed traits" and a self defined identity Nigh referred to. While the self defined identity, because it is subjective and only needs to exist in the mind of the creator might be immune to empirical laws, the "displayed traits" are not. If the sex of a neutrois person would be defined by the absence of any genitals , and by extention all things either male or female, then the "displayed traits" must also illustrate the complete absence of "what is male" and the complete absence of "what is female" and that is not possible since ALL parts of a human (eyes, ears, nose, blood, urine and all), and ALL of their instincts , impulses, and behaviors are composed of male and female; in bodily construction via dna and in personality /cognizence as all human traits are male in nature, female in nature, or a measure against each other. In order to be "neutrois" you would literally have to be nothing. Not a human cell. Not a human molecule. Neither a human trait.Nothing.

Bear with me for a second, and please actually read this because I know you love scanning my posts for keywords to attack rather than reading the content.

Someone comes up to you and said that claiming to be "male" lacks logic, that if you were "male" you couldn't exist because it's impossible to physically be "male". And, of course they constantly say "male" with air quotes to imply this part of identity that you know you have and you know exists doesn't actually exist.

How would that make you feel? What would your response be? Would you crumple and cry and say that you've seen the light, that you aren't really male and they're right? Would you proceed to tell them how you are really male, even though it falls on deaf ears? I honestly don't know what you hope to achieve by telling a complete stranger that everyone must conform to your idea of what gender is, and that their gender is false and if they continue insisting they are it they're only insisting that they aren't human and don't even exist.

Is there something about neutrois that threatens you so much you have to constantly belittle and discount it? Is it so inconcievable to you that some people don't base gender purely on your ideology? You admit that you aren't "into" on-binary genders then you go and tear one apart, why? What benefit do you have? Plenty of people would insist that transsexuals don't exist, that they're just gay people trying to get acceptance by turning straight or just confused. Many people truly believe that what you're born with physically is who you are and nothing can change that- it doesn't mean that transsexuals aren't real, that transgenderism isn't valid, and it's rather futile for them to insist otherwise but they still do.

You aren't going to convince me to identify as an androgyne- I've tried, and that's not right, because I am a neutrois in the same way that any MtF is a woman and any FtM is a man. You couldn't force a man to identify as androgyne, you couldn't force an androgyne to identify as female, you cannot force me to identify as anything but who I am- a neutrois.

I'm just curious what you gain from insisting that I can't exist when I most certainly do.

[Guest Jeannine Bean]

Ok, I've been wondering about this. If you're androgynous- how do you define your sexuality? I figure if you're bi/pan, it's easy enough. But what if you only like guys or girls? You can't say hetero-, because you don't like only androgynous, and you might not want to say homo- because that gets confusing since it could mean either.

Should you just go by biological sex?

Okay, I'm sorry but in the queer friendly world where I come from only squares ever say "homosexual" or you can say it if you're talking medically, or maybe quoting someone from long ago... even "lesbian" is a little old fashioned and a word that was, last I knew, banned by our censors here, is much more common.

Even the three letter F word meaning cigarette was common parlance at the gay clubs I frequented.

Why don't you just say, "I like him" or "I like her" or "I like that one" when you meet someone you like?

And if anybody asks, I used to say, "I don't particularly have a sexual preference, I tend to be attracted to people that I think are sexy... they can be men, women, whatever."

And then move on with the conversation. If you're all that drunk at the party, surely you can turn this talk into something a LOT more interesting, LOL.

--Jeannine

PS: Why do I bring all this up at the beginning about words? It's important that the word we use have a social or psychological value, right? I think you're looking for psychological value of a label, but social value of language can often be important enough that the things you fear psychologically can just melt away...

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

as I have often said, what does it matter to anyone, except the partner I may be with at the time, if I am attracted to men, women, both or maybe even neither. The last one means I wouldn't be with any one but hey thats life occasionally.

[Guest phxbrising]

hahaha!! I guess I'm lucky I'm pansexual and have it "easy" HAHAHAHA!!!

Though as an aside...it's funny, my mate is M2F and has discovered that she's not actually pan as she previously thought because the idea of having sex with another Transgender doesn't jive. So she's bi, I'm pan...fun.

Sexuality of the tranfolk and gender queer definitly get intersting. I like my men either very burly, furry and bear like OR fem...and I like my girls androgyn OR lipstick. Hehehe...leaves my options wide open at least